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Snowflakes in action: the actual reality of "snowflakes" in the world and the consequences

It seems to me that if the things it bans do not exist or are already banned anyway, it will have no effect or perhaps it will facilitate the enforcement of already existing bans. What bad effects do you think it will have?
148 creates several objectionable goals.

  1. It creates an undefined standard on shaming and uncomfortableness
"Subjecting any individual, as a condition of employment, membership, certification, licensing, credentialing, or passing an examination, to training, instruction, or any other required activity that espouses, promotes, advances, inculcates, or compels such individual to believe" and "provided such training or instruction is given in an objective manner without endorsement of the concepts." look to me like a definition. What standard that it creates is undefined?

[*]Provides an avenue for parents of students to complain about reasonable curriculum
Oh my god, the people will be able to petition the Government for a redress of grievances! Sacre bleu!

[*]Provides an avenue for arbitrary people who review the material to meddle in the curricula.
And the Protestant Reformation provided an avenue for an arbitrary King Henry to meddle in the Archbishop of Canterbury's curriculum. Arbitrary people are paying for the curriculum. Arbitrary people are being required to supply captive audiences to the curriculum. So why the bejesus should arbitrary people not be allowed to have a say in what that curriculum is? Why are the rest of us under any obligation to attend your church and tithe to your church but leave all the decisions to your unelected Bishops?
 
The text of the act defines who was eligible under it. White farmers were excluded.
Can you provide a link to the text of the act? Thanks.
Not the act text itself, but this is the USDA FAQ on the program:

Earlier this week, we posted important information about the American Rescue Plan debt relief payments for socially disadvantaged producers. The American Rescue Plan includes provisions for USDA to pay up to 120% of loan balances, as of January 1, 2021, for Farm Service Agency (FSA) Direct and Guaranteed Farm Loans and Farm Storage Facility Loans (FSFL).

If you are a Black, Native American/Alaskan Native, Asian American or Pacific Islander, or are of Hispanic/Latino ethnicity, with one of the loans listed above, you are eligible for the loan payment. FSA is working hard to ensure that we provide this relief as expeditiously as possible to those who qualify.
If you look at the FAQ:

Eligible Producers

Question 1: Would you further explain the meaning of the "socially disadvantaged farmer or rancher" designation? What are the criteria for meeting such a designation?

  • The term “socially disadvantaged farmer or rancher” means a farmer or rancher who is member of a socially disadvantaged group whose members have been subjected to racial or ethnic prejudice because of their identity as members of a group without regard to their individual qualities, as defined by section 2501(a) of the Food, Agriculture, Conservation, and Trade Act of 1990 (7 U.S.C. 2279(a)).
So for loan forgiveness not only do they need to be a member of the group but to also have experienced raciarl or ethnic prejudice in the past.
No. 'subjected to racial or ethnic prejudice because of their identity as members...' is a description of the category 'socially disadvantaged group'. If you are one of the ethnicities described, you qualify by definition.
You are still relying on a link to an online piece dated April of last year. As of December, the law has been altered, as pointed out in the link I posted upthread. You say you have read it but perhaps you missed it because you keep posting about something that is NO LONGER PROPOSED.
My link repeated here: https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/...sands-minority-farmers-data-shows-2021-12-17/

For your convenience, I have bolded the pertinent part since you seem to have missed it:


The new program, included in the Build Back Better Act (BBBA) now being hashed out in the Senate, would make farmers eligible for debt relief according to their economic insecurity rather than race.
 
Are you seriously suggesting that the existence of a second meme accusing leftists' invective targets of being Nazis qualifies as evidence that the first meme's invective targets really are Nazis?
One of the beauties of the meme medium is that hyperbole becomes comedy after a while, even if in only an "oh, shit" kind of way. It's a fairly common theme. In this case its more like using the unassailable fact that nazis favor book bannings, it certainly doesn't follow (though a nine year old might think it does, from some vantages) that book banners are all nazis.
 
You are still relying on a link to an online piece dated April of last year. As of December, the law has been altered, as pointed out in the link I posted upthread. You say you have read it but perhaps you missed it because you keep posting about something that is NO LONGER PROPOSED.
Why don't you ever process anything I write, Toni? I know it's no longer proposed because it got stopped in court, which I've mentioned a dozen times.
For your convenience, I have bolded the pertinent part since you seem to have missed it:
Toni, why do you think I don't know this? I've already mentioned it and discussed it.

I'm glad the original, racist program was scrapped. There was an original, racist program that was scrapped, and not because the USDA realised discriminating by race was bad, but because it had a number of legal challenges.

You appear as if you want people to believe that the program never existed. That a law was not proposed that discriminated against white farmers. The program did exist. The USDA sent letters out to the non-white farmers it intended to forgive the loans for. It was going to make payments in June 2021 but was stopped by court action.

You have a long history of denying the possibility that any institution in America could possibly discriminate against white people. You deny it even when it is not just proposed but has already happened, like the fire fighter promotion debacle a few years ago, where nobody was promoted because too many white people qualified for promotion.

In a way, I understand your behaviour, inasmuch as white liberals are the only ethnic group who disfavour their own ingroup (white people) in America. But I don't understand your need to deny the obvious.
 
The program was intended to give relief to farmers who had faced many many years of discrimination, often at the hands of the USDA because they are not white.

Putting a nice face on discrimination doesn't make it not discrimination.

I can see why you would oppose relief to those who suffered and continue to suffer from racism. No one deserves any kind of compensation for being targeted by laws that specifically favor white people instead of all people. That last sentence was sarcasm on my part but I know that there are plenty of people who agree with the statement as truth and not sarcasm.

Also, you are very very quick to claim that posters are writing falsehoods but you aren't very careful about your tenses in your own posts.

The program in question was clearly racist, just a form of racism you approve of.
 
I did know what program you were talking about and I knew you were wrong about the program which has undergone changes before it was ever implemented—something that you steadfastly refused to acknowledge, perhaps because you genuinely did not know—not unsurprising given your favorite news sources, or perhaps because it didn’t fit your narrative of outrage.

The rest of your post is drivel.

Whether it was struck down before implementation doesn't change the fact that the it was racist.
 
I did know what program you were talking about and I knew you were wrong about the program which has undergone changes before it was ever implemented—something that you steadfastly refused to acknowledge, perhaps because you genuinely did not know—not unsurprising given your favorite news sources, or perhaps because it didn’t fit your narrative of outrage.

The rest of your post is drivel.

Whether it was struck down before implementation doesn't change the fact that the it was racist.
Aid is often targeted towards those who have been disproportionately affected in a negative way.

The USDA has a long history of writing policy and designing programs that were racist—against persons of color.

Somehow those were not worth discussing. Nope. The usual suspects have to get their panties in a twist if white men are not the primary beneficiaries.

And don’t let up after a program policy has been ‘corrected’ to remove any language that might not favor white men.

Same bunch who think the works starts now, with them on third base. No need for reparations for those who don’t get the same at bats.
 
The program was intended to give relief to farmers who had faced many many years of discrimination, often at the hands of the USDA because they are not white.

Putting a nice face on discrimination doesn't make it not discrimination.

I can see why you would oppose relief to those who suffered and continue to suffer from racism. No one deserves any kind of compensation for being targeted by laws that specifically favor white people instead of all people. That last sentence was sarcasm on my part but I know that there are plenty of people who agree with the statement as truth and not sarcasm.

Also, you are very very quick to claim that posters are writing falsehoods but you aren't very careful about your tenses in your own posts.

The program in question was clearly racist, just a form of racism you approve of.
How many posts have you devoted to decrying a program you disagree with that was never implemented?

Too bad you don’t have a word to say about racist policies and programs and the implementation of such that are discriminatory against anyone other than white cis males.

But at least you got the tense right.

Congratulations.
 
I did know what program you were talking about and I knew you were wrong about the program which has undergone changes before it was ever implemented—something that you steadfastly refused to acknowledge, perhaps because you genuinely did not know—not unsurprising given your favorite news sources, or perhaps because it didn’t fit your narrative of outrage.

The rest of your post is drivel.

Whether it was struck down before implementation doesn't change the fact that the it was racist.
Aid is often targeted towards those who have been disproportionately affected in a negative way.

The USDA has a long history of writing policy and designing programs that were racist—against persons of color.

Somehow those were not worth discussing. Nope. The usual suspects have to get their panties in a twist if white men are not the primary beneficiaries.

And don’t let up after a program policy has been ‘corrected’ to remove any language that might not favor white men.

Same bunch who think the works starts now, with them on third base. No need for reparations for those who don’t get the same at bats.

Either systemic racism is wrong or it isn't. This USDA program targeted one racial group, and only that racial group, as undeserving of Covid assistance. Note that Covid was the pretext for the assistance. What seems to have been forgotten is that black farmers sued the USDA in the 1990s over discrimination, resulting in the Pigford settlements. Regardless of the merits of the lawsuit, those black farmers who alleged past discrimination have already resolved their disputes. Yet, the Covid program included the Pigford recipients as eligible for loan forgiveness. And not only that, being not white is the only relevant criterion to receive the loan forgiveness. It does not matter if the farmer had actually faced discrimination in the past from the USDA, only that the farmer is not white. Asian, Honduran, and Nigerian immigrants are all eligible. But the white farmer of many generations is told to fuck off, solely because of the hue of his skin. (As if white farmers were spared Covid disruption.)

The cognitive dissonance of those who decry "systemic racism" but make apologies for clearly racist policies is jarring. No one should face discrimination because of the color of their skin. No one. It used to be the liberal position to treat all as individuals and abhor judging people by their immutable race. What the hell happened?
 
I did know what program you were talking about and I knew you were wrong about the program which has undergone changes before it was ever implemented—something that you steadfastly refused to acknowledge, perhaps because you genuinely did not know—not unsurprising given your favorite news sources, or perhaps because it didn’t fit your narrative of outrage.

The rest of your post is drivel.

Whether it was struck down before implementation doesn't change the fact that the it was racist.
Aid is often targeted towards those who have been disproportionately affected in a negative way.

The USDA has a long history of writing policy and designing programs that were racist—against persons of color.

Somehow those were not worth discussing. Nope. The usual suspects have to get their panties in a twist if white men are not the primary beneficiaries.

And don’t let up after a program policy has been ‘corrected’ to remove any language that might not favor white men.

Same bunch who think the works starts now, with them on third base. No need for reparations for those who don’t get the same at bats.
The only way to stop discriminating by race is to stop discriminating by race.

Past discrimination by race by the USDA was wrong and that's why present discrimination by race by the USDA is wrong.

The program was 'corrected' to stop discriminating by race against white people. I'm sorry you don't get to use government money to discriminate against white people, but we don't always get we want, do we, Toni?
 
Still no explanation of why no outcry about systemic racism that benefits white men.

How unsurprising.

Again, I’m thrilled that those who decried a program have, at last, acknowledged that the program doesn’t do what they claimed and bitched about. It would be great if they could offer some explanation for why they bitched about an issue that was resolved before it was ever discussed here.

Apparently even the very idea that someone somewhere proposed a program that did not specifically favor white men was a bridge to far for them to let go without comment. Even after such provisions had been since removed.

All of those who claim they are against systemic racism would be so much more credible if they started dissecting extant programs whose net effect was to disadvantage persons of color.

I guess that would be a bridge too far.
 
Still no explanation of why no outcry about systemic racism that benefits white men.
What needs explaining? Why there is no message board thread about past discrimination for programs that happened years or decades ago?
Again, I’m thrilled that those who decried a program have, at last, acknowledged that the program doesn’t do what they claimed and bitched about.
The program was designed to exclude white farmers and was stopped only because of legal challenges. The program ought have been decried. But it ought never have been proposed in the first place. It should have been beyond debate.
Apparently even the very idea that someone somewhere proposed a program that did not specifically favor white men was a bridge to far for them to let go without comment. Even after such provisions had been since removed.
The very idea that the government proposed a program, in 2021, that specifically discriminated against white farmers was a bridge too far, yes. The program was not just proposed, but had already secured the money that was going to be distributed in a racist manner, and would have proceeded in June 2021 except for those nasty white farmers who did not want the US government discriminating against them by race.
All of those who claim they are against systemic racism would be so much more credible if they started dissecting extant programs whose net effect was to disadvantage persons of color.
The very idea that you are opposed to systemic racism is palpably absurd. You are not opposed to the US government discriminating by race against white farmers, for example.
 
Still no explanation of why no outcry about systemic racism that benefits white men.

Could you cite the government program or policy? That'd help a lot. Thanks.
Read the articles linked up thread.
Did you link them? Otherwise, can find anything in this thread except for the one you posted where there is a proposal for the USDA to do this:

The new program, included in the Build Back Better Act (BBBA) now being hashed out in the Senate, would make farmers eligible for debt relief according to their economic insecurity rather than race.

If your argument is that "systemic racism" is the government treating all citizens equally regardless of race, then you don't have a serious argument.
 
There was also this.


The group sued on behalf of plaintiff Antonio Vitolo, owner of Jake’s Bar and Grill in Harriman, Tennessee. Vitolo applied immediately for aid on May 3, but doesn't qualify to receive aid yet because he is a white male, according to the lawsuit.

White people have no souls.

The program relies on a definition of "socially disadvantaged" that is limited to people “subjected to racial or ethnic prejudice or cultural bias because of their identity as a member of a group without regard to their individual qualities.” Groups presumed to be socially disadvantaged include: Black Americans, Hispanic Americans, Native Americans, including Alaska Natives and Native Hawaiians; Asian Pacific Americans; and Subcontinent Asian Americans.

So anyone who is not White.
 
As far as I can tell SB 148 protects people of all races and religions from discrimination. Do you see anything in lines 44-78 -- the list of actions it defines as legally discriminatory -- that you think are not in fact discriminatory? Conversely, as far as I can tell it doesn't protect anyone from their own feelings. The rest of the bill contains among other things an expression of the legislature's disapproval of hurting people's feelings, but I don't see where it does anything substantive about it. And as I think you noted upthread, some of that stuff they said they disapproved of would make you feel bad too. So if the schools do take that part to heart and refrain from teaching in a way the legislators disapprove of, that would protect you from your feelings too, not just white people from theirs (if we pretend for the sake of discussion that you're still in school.)

First thing, let's not pretend that SB 148 is a response to something that happened outside of some white people's feelings. There is absolutely no proof that CRT was/is being used in Florida Public Schools or Private businesses. So yes, its purpose is to protect some white people from their own feelings.
Just as a for-example, SB 148 prohibits subjecting any individual, as a condition of passing an examination, to training that espouses, promotes, advances, or inculcates that an individual, by virtue of his or her race, color, sex, or national origin, should be discriminated against or receive adverse treatment to achieve diversity, equity, or inclusion. I.e., teachers aren't allowed to tell their classes affirmative action is a good thing. Are you seriously claiming that no Florida teacher ever told his class affirmative action is a good thing?

Consider this, what is in SB 148 that is not already being covered under the civil rights act (which also protects everyone)?
Most of it, as far as I can see. What do you see in it that was already covered under existing civil rights acts, and which civil rights acts do you have in mind?

If schools or corporations were actually doing any of the stuff SB 148 suggests then the Governor has failed to implement the law.
It sounds like you're conflating deeds that were already illegal, with espousing the deeds, which wasn't. For instance, it was already illegal for an employer to refuse to hire Chinese people. SB 148 makes it also illegal for an employer to require his employees to listen to his rants about what a bad idea hiring Chinese people is.

Do you see anything in lines 44-78 -- the list of actions it defines as legally discriminatory

BTw - I'm not ignoring your question I just don't know what you mean by lines 44-78.
Sorry, I forgot how long ago it was that somebody linked to the law. Here it is again.

But the whole thing is legally discriminatory if you consider that everything it aims to legislate as unlawful is either already covered by the Civil Rights Act or only white people who are afraid of the CRT boogie man that doesn't exist in our schools or corporations are offered protection from said boogieman.
Well, in the first place, it bans teachers from blaming Japanese students for Pearl Harbor the same as it bans teachers from blaming white students for Jim Crow. And in the second place, legislators being motivated by having a particular group in mind doesn't make a law legally discriminatory as long as they write the law to cover everybody. For instance, when racial preferences were overturned in Texas colleges, the legislature reacted by passing a law that gave automatic admission to students in the top 10% of their high school classes. The entire point was to work around the ruling and get more black and Hispanic students admitted to top Texas colleges, but that didn't make it illegal.

Look Bomb#20, I understood what the purpose of SB 148 is and have already told you I don't see anything discriminatory about it (as written). I just came back from 30 years into the future to post this message. There haven't been any judgments in favor of a black defendant and plaintiff as a result of SB 148. When you finally arrive in my future we'll continue this discussion as that's when you will understand why I consider SB 148 protection for only white people.
 
There was also this.


The group sued on behalf of plaintiff Antonio Vitolo, owner of Jake’s Bar and Grill in Harriman, Tennessee. Vitolo applied immediately for aid on May 3, but doesn't qualify to receive aid yet because he is a white male, according to the lawsuit.

White people have no souls.

The program relies on a definition of "socially disadvantaged" that is limited to people “subjected to racial or ethnic prejudice or cultural bias because of their identity as a member of a group without regard to their individual qualities.” Groups presumed to be socially disadvantaged include: Black Americans, Hispanic Americans, Native Americans, including Alaska Natives and Native Hawaiians; Asian Pacific Americans; and Subcontinent Asian Americans.

So anyone who is not White.
Actually, he just has to wait a little longer if he does not fit into any of the prioritized categories of those identified as being most harmed by COVID19:
(your link)
The lawsuit led by the Wisconsin Institute for Law & Liberty targets the period from May 3 until May 24 during which the $28.6 billion Restaurant Revitalization Fund will only process and fund requests from businesses owned by women; veterans; or socially and economically disadvantaged individuals. Eligibility opens broadly after that period.

I realize that white men not being first in line for everything good is an adjustment that some will find very difficult,
 
Most of it, as far as I can see. What do you see in it that was already covered under existing civil rights acts, and which civil rights acts do you have in mind?

The part that prohibits discrimination in public accommodations, facilities, and schools & outlawed discrimination in federally funded projects.
 
Actually, he just has to wait a little longer if he does not fit into any of the prioritized categories of those identified as being most harmed by COVID19:
(your link)
Toni, I realise that the government discriminating against white men sets your heart a-flutter, but it beggars belief that if the government had done the opposite - made everyone other than white men wait two weeks - that you would have so easily dismissed this discriminatory action.

There is a limited pot of money and when it runs out, people will miss out. When businesses are struggling, two weeks without money that other businesses are getting will hurt them, if they get the money at all.

I realize that white men not being first in line for everything good is an adjustment that some will find very difficult,
Yes, waiting in line and then being singled out and told to go to the back of the line because you are a white man is an adjustment white men will have to continue to make, as long as white liberals like Toni continue use and approve and celebrate institutional racism to actively harm white men.
 
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