So another "chemical" attack in Syria?

[whichphilosophy]

Of course it was an asinine response - it was Trump flying solo. But denying the fact that planes from that airbase are known to have dropped Sarin gas on Syrian citizens, is just trollery.

U.S. signals and aerial intelligence, combined with local reporting and samples taken from victims of the attack, showed that a Russian-made, Syrian-piloted SU-22 aircraft dropped at least one munition carrying the nerve gas sarin on the northwestern town of Khan Sheikhoun.

In fact this whole war is a chain reaction caused by US foreign policy.

Or by Russian foreign policy, or by Elron Hubbard or his invented Xenu-god... your ramblings of causation are of no consequence.

We agree on Asinine. However he curried favour even with Senator McCain who applauded this and perhaps put some lipstick on his dipstickari.

We know the victims were poisoned with Sarin. It's easy to diagnose. We don't know for sure how this happened as admitted from time to time by the US and others. That's why there should be an investigation.
America caused the war in the first place and hundreds of thousands of deaths. What we see today is a chain reaction stemming from this. Hubbard was dead when the US armed the rebels (half of which were Al Nusra and similar).

This war is another US cock up.

I'm wondering if you are confusing Syria with Iraq? The Syrian civil war started when a bunch of kids spray painted some anti-Assad propaganda. They were arrested and then brutally tortured. The Syrian's started protesting, and then Assad starting killing more. But the roots are their crazy religions conflicting with each other and the Assad family's brutal sectarian rule. Here's a history of the conflict:

https://www.britannica.com/event/Syrian-Civil-War

What does it say about the Groups that were armed by the USA?

The problem here is the USA always replaces an existing situation with one that's much worse.

 

[laughing dog]

Where do you get this nonsense?

Since US entered on its rampages of regime change (with its UK poodle in tow), it created a perfect vacuum for Al Qaeda, Al Nusra, ISIS and other fanatics of their ilk to fill the void.

The Syrian civil war was not started by Al Qaeda, etc... So, apparently this nonsense comes straight out of thin air.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Terrorist and Freedom fighter are not synonymous. So no, Terrorists are not aka 'Freedom fighters'.

The Shining Path call themselves Freedom Fighters. One Man's Terrorist is another Man's Freedom Fighter. The US backed Freedom fighters in Syria, or the USA sponsored terrorism in Syria.

Calling themselves freedom fighters doesn't make them so.

The line is clear--terrorists target civilians, freedom fighters target military and government targets. Rarely is there a case that blurs the line and those usually involve situations where there are no civilians available for attack. (Example: USS Cole bombing.)

 

[J842P]

Where do you get this nonsense?

Since US entered on its rampages of regime change (with its UK poodle in tow), it created a perfect vacuum for Al Qaeda, Al Nusra, ISIS and other fanatics of their ilk to fill the void.

So what we see here are the ripples of US meddling.

See Tulsi Gabbard (DEM) who introduced a bill to prevent people supporting terrorists aka freedom fighters
[YOUTUBE]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76GhC5d52d8[/YOUTUBE]

Tulsi Gabbard is a true patriot, and a light in the darkness that is the US Congress. I hope one day she runs for President.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Since US entered on its rampages of regime change (with its UK poodle in tow), it created a perfect vacuum for Al Qaeda, Al Nusra, ISIS and other fanatics of their ilk to fill the void.

The Syrian civil war was not started by Al Qaeda, etc... So, apparently this nonsense comes straight out of thin air.

No one said it did. These fanatics just filled the vacuums created by US involvement.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Since US entered on its rampages of regime change (with its UK poodle in tow), it created a perfect vacuum for Al Qaeda, Al Nusra, ISIS and other fanatics of their ilk to fill the void.

So what we see here are the ripples of US meddling.

See Tulsi Gabbard (DEM) who introduced a bill to prevent people supporting terrorists aka freedom fighters
[YOUTUBE]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76GhC5d52d8[/YOUTUBE]

Tulsi Gabbard is a true patriot, and a light in the darkness that is the US Congress. I hope one day she runs for President.

She has an interesting background including serving in the US military.She's the first American Samoan (mixed with European) and Hindu to be elected to congress.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I am glad to see that you finally realized that fog is not CO2

I never said it was. I said you can see approximately the distribution of cold gas (carbon dioxide) in a dry ice experiment. This illustrates that heavier gases will initially settle to lower spaces in the presence of lighter ones.

I heard your first analogy. Yes heavy gas will stay for some time low but not for long

Long enough to kill several hundred people, which is really the whole point.

with respect to Sarin it's irrelevant because amount of the gas is so tiny that it simply does not have ability to cover any area.

It doesn't take a lot, less than 100mg per cubic meter of air is enough to kill most people, and it only needs to retain that concentration for as much as five minutes to be completely effective.

OTOH, you are basically using your understanding of gas physics to argue against the effectiveness of chemical weapons. People smarter than either of us spent billions of dollars developing these weapons and they are lethal enough that their use in the battlefield is considered a major war crime. So either there's something wrong with your understanding of the science, or there's something wrong with the rest of the universe. I know which one I'm putting MY money on...

In case of Sarin immediately, because amount of gas is tiny.

So you should really write a memo to the U.S. Department of Defense and to the militaries of every major world power and let them know that Sarin is actually useless as a chemical weapon because it dissipates immediately and doesn't have the capacity to kill anyone unless it's converted into an aerosol. I'm sure they'll be glad to hear from you

 

[barbos]

I never said it was. I said you can see approximately the distribution of cold gas (carbon dioxide) in a dry ice experiment.

You just did it again. carbon dioxide=CO2 in case you did not know.

This illustrates that heavier gases will initially settle to lower spaces in the presence of lighter ones.

OK, but it's not CO2, it's just cold air.

I heard your first analogy. Yes heavy gas will stay for some time low but not for long

Long enough to kill several hundred people, which is really the whole point.

with respect to Sarin it's irrelevant because amount of the gas is so tiny that it simply does not have ability to cover any area.

It doesn't take a lot, less than 100mg per cubic meter of air is enough to kill most people, and it only needs to retain that concentration for as much as five minutes to be completely effective.

OTOH, you are basically using your understanding of gas physics to argue against the effectiveness of chemical weapons. People smarter than either of us spent billions of dollars developing these weapons and they are lethal enough that their use in the battlefield is considered a major war crime. So either there's something wrong with your understanding of the science, or there's something wrong with the rest of the universe. I know which one I'm putting MY money on...

I am not arguing any of that. Quite frankly I forgot how it all started. I remember correctly correcting you on CO2 in the pool.

In case of Sarin immediately, because amount of gas is tiny.

So you should really write a memo to the U.S. Department of Defense and to the militaries of every major world power and let them know that Sarin is actually useless as a chemical weapon because it dissipates immediately and doesn't have the capacity to kill anyone unless it's converted into an aerosol. I'm sure they'll be glad to hear from you

I said tha for Sarin to be effective it have to be in aerosol form, this seems to be what they say too.
But as I admitted I was wrong about rate of diffusion. so in the completely still atmosphere heavy gases will pretty much stay where they are for hours. But this means in a completely still atmosphere Sarin will stay close to the container. So you need at least some tiny wind.

Honestly, I don't understand what was the original source for this discussion

 

[barbos]

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/04/12/politics/us-intelligence-syrian-chemical-weapons/index.html

CNN says US has radio intercepts of syrian government preparing for the attack.

 

[KeepTalking]

OK, but it's not CO2, it's just cold air.

It is?

Perhaps you can remind me what the chemical notation for "cold air" is, then.

 

[J842P]

OK, but it's not CO2, it's just cold air.

It is?

Perhaps you can remind me what the chemical notation for "cold air" is, then.

Air is less than one-tenth of one percent CO2. It is mostly nitrogen and oxygen.

 

[tupac chopra]

There are more than a few former U.S. intelligence officials who are challenging the official story.

https://consortiumnews.com/2017/04/11/trump-should-rethink-syria-escalation/

Eugene D. Betit, Intelligence Analyst, DIA, Soviet FAO, (US Army, ret.)

William Binney, Technical Director, NSA; co-founder, SIGINT Automation Research Center (ret.)

Marshall Carter-Tripp, Foreign Service Officer and former Office Director in the State Department Bureau of Intelligence and Research, (ret.)

Thomas Drake, Senior Executive Service, NSA (former)

Bogdan Dzakovic, Former Team Leader of Federal Air Marshals and Red Team, FAA Security, (ret.) (associate VIPS)

Robert Furukawa, Capt, CEC, USN-R, (ret.)

Philip Giraldi, CIA, Operations Officer (ret.)

Mike Gravel, former Adjutant, top secret control officer, Communications Intelligence Service; special agent of the Counter Intelligence Corps and former United States Senator

Matthew Hoh, former Capt., USMC, Iraq and Foreign Service Officer, Afghanistan (associate VIPS)

Larry C. Johnson, CIA & State Department (ret.)

Michael S. Kearns, Captain, USAF (Ret.); ex-Master SERE Instructor for Strategic Reconnaissance Operations (NSA/DIA) and Special Mission Units (JSOC)

John Brady Kiesling, Foreign Service Officer (ret.)

John Kiriakou, former CIA analyst and counterterrorism officer, and former senior investigator, Senate Foreign Relations Committee

Linda Lewis, WMD preparedness policy analyst, USDA (ret.) (associate VIPS)

Lisa Ling, TSgt USAF (ret.) (associate VIPS)

Edward Loomis, NSA, Cryptologic Computer Scientist (ret.)

David MacMichael, National Intelligence Council (ret.)

Ray McGovern, former US Army infantry/intelligence officer & CIA analyst (ret.)

Elizabeth Murray, Deputy National Intelligence Officer for Near East, CIA and National Intelligence Council (ret.)

Torin Nelson, former Intelligence Officer/Interrogator, Department of the Army

Todd E. Pierce, MAJ, US Army Judge Advocate (Ret.)

Coleen Rowley, FBI Special Agent and former Minneapolis Division Legal Counsel (ret.)

Scott Ritter, former MAJ., USMC, and former UN Weapon Inspector, Iraq

Peter Van Buren, U.S. Department of State, Foreign Service Officer (ret.) (associate VIPS)

Kirk Wiebe, former Senior Analyst, SIGINT Automation Research Center, NSA

Sarah G. Wilton, Commander, US Naval Reserve (ret), DIA (ret.)

Robert Wing, former Foreign Service Officer (associate VIPS)

Ann Wright, U.S. Army Reserve Colonel (ret) and former U.S. Diplomat

 

[KeepTalking]

It is?

Perhaps you can remind me what the chemical notation for "cold air" is, then.

Air is less than one-tenth of one percent CO2. It is mostly nitrogen and oxygen.

That doesn't answer my question (hint: my question is a trick question designed to provide an understanding that, unlike CO2, "cold air" is not a molecule).

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

UK says it was sarin gas.

The UK result confirmed earlier testing by Turkish authorities that concluded that sarin had been used for the first time on a large scale in Syria's civil war since 2013.

I realize this can just be handwaved by barbos, but might as well put out the havewaving fodder.

So either ISIS/rebels have Sarin gas or Syria used Sarin gas. Honestly, I would prefer the latter be true. And if Russia thought ISIS had access to Sarin gas, they'd be bombing the fuck out of ISIS.

 

[barbos]

UK says it was sarin gas.

The UK result confirmed earlier testing by Turkish authorities that concluded that sarin had been used for the first time on a large scale in Syria's civil war since 2013.

I realize this can just be handwaved by barbos, but might as well put out the havewaving fodder.

So either ISIS/rebels have Sarin gas or Syria used Sarin gas. Honestly, I would prefer the latter be true. And if Russia thought ISIS had access to Sarin gas, they'd be bombing the fuck out of ISIS.

Pay attention, I already believe Assad did gas them.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I must have missed your newsletter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[whichphilosophy]

There are more than a few former U.S. intelligence officials who are challenging the official story.

https://consortiumnews.com/2017/04/11/trump-should-rethink-syria-escalation/

Eugene D. Betit, Intelligence Analyst, DIA, Soviet FAO, (US Army, ret.)

William Binney, Technical Director, NSA; co-founder, SIGINT Automation Research Center (ret.)

Marshall Carter-Tripp, Foreign Service Officer and former Office Director in the State Department Bureau of Intelligence and Research, (ret.)

Thomas Drake, Senior Executive Service, NSA (former)

Bogdan Dzakovic, Former Team Leader of Federal Air Marshals and Red Team, FAA Security, (ret.) (associate VIPS)

Robert Furukawa, Capt, CEC, USN-R, (ret.)

Philip Giraldi, CIA, Operations Officer (ret.)

Mike Gravel, former Adjutant, top secret control officer, Communications Intelligence Service; special agent of the Counter Intelligence Corps and former United States Senator

Matthew Hoh, former Capt., USMC, Iraq and Foreign Service Officer, Afghanistan (associate VIPS)

Larry C. Johnson, CIA & State Department (ret.)

Michael S. Kearns, Captain, USAF (Ret.); ex-Master SERE Instructor for Strategic Reconnaissance Operations (NSA/DIA) and Special Mission Units (JSOC)

John Brady Kiesling, Foreign Service Officer (ret.)

John Kiriakou, former CIA analyst and counterterrorism officer, and former senior investigator, Senate Foreign Relations Committee

Linda Lewis, WMD preparedness policy analyst, USDA (ret.) (associate VIPS)

Lisa Ling, TSgt USAF (ret.) (associate VIPS)

Edward Loomis, NSA, Cryptologic Computer Scientist (ret.)

David MacMichael, National Intelligence Council (ret.)

Ray McGovern, former US Army infantry/intelligence officer & CIA analyst (ret.)

Elizabeth Murray, Deputy National Intelligence Officer for Near East, CIA and National Intelligence Council (ret.)

Torin Nelson, former Intelligence Officer/Interrogator, Department of the Army

Todd E. Pierce, MAJ, US Army Judge Advocate (Ret.)

Coleen Rowley, FBI Special Agent and former Minneapolis Division Legal Counsel (ret.)

Scott Ritter, former MAJ., USMC, and former UN Weapon Inspector, Iraq

Peter Van Buren, U.S. Department of State, Foreign Service Officer (ret.) (associate VIPS)

Kirk Wiebe, former Senior Analyst, SIGINT Automation Research Center, NSA

Sarah G. Wilton, Commander, US Naval Reserve (ret), DIA (ret.)

Robert Wing, former Foreign Service Officer (associate VIPS)

Ann Wright, U.S. Army Reserve Colonel (ret) and former U.S. Diplomat

This seems to more support the Russian version. Certainly there still has not been an investigation.

- - - Updated - - -

UK says it was sarin gas.


I realize this can just be handwaved by barbos, but might as well put out the havewaving fodder.

So either ISIS/rebels have Sarin gas or Syria used Sarin gas. Honestly, I would prefer the latter be true. And if Russia thought ISIS had access to Sarin gas, they'd be bombing the fuck out of ISIS.

Pay attention, I already believe Assad did gas them.

However, there isn't actual evidence that he did, nor is there a concrete motive.

 

[Elixir]

However, there isn't actual evidence that he did, nor is there a concrete motive.

You keep conflating the existence of evidence with "what whichphilosophy is aware of".

 

[repoman]

Greater Israel Project:

 

[barbos]

I must have missed your newsletter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, you must have.
https://talkfreethought.org/showthr...ttack-in-Syria&p=405783&viewfull=1#post405783