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So, the Obama and Clinton Haters don't want to talk about Flint?

Jimmy Higgins

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What I find interesting is that whenever something of major noteworthy condemnation may be available, Metadata Farming, there is almost nothing to talk about. Something that can only be described as an incredible violation of the 4th Amendment goes without much of a whimper by conservatives.

Some news report from Fox News alleges a possible indication that maybe an email sent by Clinton could have had information that may have been secret and all of a sudden we are talking jail time.

So now we are looking at a situation in Michigan. link

Without a doubt, the first people responsible are the micro-managers sent to Flint to save a few bucks. Then the consistent inaction and improper reactions to what was occurring. But not a word from right-wingers about the EPA's involvement in this story.

I have not read enough to determine the accountability for all parties involved, but someone had to have dropped the ball at each of the local, state, and regulatory levels.
 
What I find interesting is that whenever something of major noteworthy condemnation may be available, Metadata Farming, there is almost nothing to talk about. Something that can only be described as an incredible violation of the 4th Amendment goes without much of a whimper by conservatives.

Some news report from Fox News alleges a possible indication that maybe an email sent by Clinton could have had information that may have been secret and all of a sudden we are talking jail time.

So now we are looking at a situation in Michigan. link
Without a doubt, the first people responsible are the micro-managers sent to Flint to save a few bucks. Then the consistent inaction and improper reactions to what was occurring. But not a word from right-wingers about the EPA's involvement in this story.

I have not read enough to determine the accountability for all parties involved, but someone had to have dropped the ball at each of the local, state, and regulatory levels.

If we can somehow connect a Clinton with Flint: we'd get some traction!
 
The odd thing is, the more at the data I look, the less I see a lead related issue to the water.

link

This website, a truly biased blog on the situation, shows a report that was done. And you can see the lead levels after the introduction of the new water. The results, despite their interpretation, do not imply that lead was leeched by the water. There is an increase in the spring/summer, similar to the previous year, but the levels drop in the fall and winter, notably so, actually lower than in previous years. This would imply that there is something else causing the increase in lead levels, not the water. The government suggests that it is the windows and old lead paint dust that is inhaled. Looking at the numbers, that seems like a decent interpretation.
 
It sounds like there have already been investigations conducted and culprits named:

On October 21, 2015, Snyder announced the creation of a five-member Flint Water Advisory Task Force, consisting of Ken Sikkema of Public Sector Consultants and Chris Kolb of the Michigan Environmental Council (co-chairs) and Dr. Matthew Davis of the University of Michigan Health System, Eric Rothstein of the Galardi Rothstein Group and Dr. Lawrence Reynolds of Mott Children's Health Center in Flint.[42] In December 29, 2015, the Task Force released its preliminary report, saying that the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality (DEQ) bore ultimate blame for the Flint water crisis.[43][44] The task force wrote that the DEQ's Office of Drinking Water and Municipal Assistance (ODWMA) adopted a "minimalist technical compliance approach" to water safety, which was "unacceptable and simply insufficient to the task of public protection."[43] The task force also found that "Throughout 2015, as the public raised concerns and as independent studies and testing were conducted and brought to the attention of MDEQ, the agency's response was often one of aggressive dismissal, belittlement, and attempts to discredit these efforts and the individuals involved. We find both the tone and substance of many MDEQ public statements to be completely unacceptable."[43] The task force also found that the Michigan DEQ has failed to follow the federal Lead and Copper Rule (LCR).[43] That rule requires "optimized corrosion control treatment," but DEQ staff instructed City of Flint water treatment staff that corrosion control treatment (CCT) would not be necessary for a year.[43] The task force found that "the decision not to require CCT, made at the direction of the MDEQ, led directly to the contamination of the Flint water system."[43]

The task force's findings prompted the resignation of DEQ director Dan Wyant and communications director Brad Wurfel.[45][46] Flint Department of Public Works director Howard Croft also resigned.[47]

On January 8, 2016, the U.S. Attorney's Office for the Eastern District of Michigan said that it was investigating.[14]

The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) "battled Michigan's Department of Environmental Quality behind the scenes for at least six months over whether Flint needed to use chemical treatments to keep lead lines and plumbing connections from leaching into drinking water" and "did not publicize its concern that Flint residents' health was jeopardized by the state's insistence that such controls were not required by law.[48] In 2015, EPA water expert Miguel Del Toral "identified potential problems with Flint's drinking water in February, confirmed the suspicions in April and summarized the looming problem" in an internal memo[49] circulated on June 24, 2015.[48] The Del Toral memo was not publicly released until November 2015, after a revision and vetting process.[48] In the interim, the EPA and the Michigan DEQ engaged in a dispute on how to interpret the Lead and Copper Rule. According to EPA Region 5 Administrator Susan Hedman, the EPA pushed to immediately implement corrosion controls in the interests of public health, while the Michigan DEQ sought to delay a decision on corrosion control until two six-month periods of sampling had been completed.[48] In an interview with the Detroit News published on January 12, Hedman said: "Let's be clear, the recommendation to DEQ (regarding the need for corrosion controls) occurred at higher and higher levels during this time period. And the answer kept coming back from DEQ that 'no, we are not going to make a decision until after we see more testing results.'"[48] Hedman said the EPA did not go public with its concerns earlier because (1) state and local governments have primary responsibility for drinking water quality and safety; (2) there was insufficient evidence at that point of the extent of the danger; and (3) the EPA's legal authority to compel the state to take action was unclear, and the EPA discussed the issue with its legal counsel, who only rendered an opinion in November.[48] Hedman said the EPA discussed the issue with its legal counsel and urged the state to have MDHHS warn residents about the danger.[48]

Assessments of the EPA's action varied. Marc Edwards, who investigated the lead contamination, said that the assessment in Del Toral's original June memo was "100 percent accurate" and criticized the EPA for failing to take more immediate action.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis
 
It sounds like there have already been investigations conducted and culprits named:

On October 21, 2015, Snyder announced the creation of a five-member Flint Water Advisory Task Force, consisting of Ken Sikkema of Public Sector Consultants and Chris Kolb of the Michigan Environmental Council (co-chairs) and Dr. Matthew Davis of the University of Michigan Health System, Eric Rothstein of the Galardi Rothstein Group and Dr. Lawrence Reynolds of Mott Children's Health Center in Flint.[42] In December 29, 2015, the Task Force released its preliminary report, saying that the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality (DEQ) bore ultimate blame for the Flint water crisis.[43][44] The task force wrote that the DEQ's Office of Drinking Water and Municipal Assistance (ODWMA) adopted a "minimalist technical compliance approach" to water safety, which was "unacceptable and simply insufficient to the task of public protection."[43] The task force also found that "Throughout 2015, as the public raised concerns and as independent studies and testing were conducted and brought to the attention of MDEQ, the agency's response was often one of aggressive dismissal, belittlement, and attempts to discredit these efforts and the individuals involved. We find both the tone and substance of many MDEQ public statements to be completely unacceptable."[43] The task force also found that the Michigan DEQ has failed to follow the federal Lead and Copper Rule (LCR).[43] That rule requires "optimized corrosion control treatment," but DEQ staff instructed City of Flint water treatment staff that corrosion control treatment (CCT) would not be necessary for a year.[43] The task force found that "the decision not to require CCT, made at the direction of the MDEQ, led directly to the contamination of the Flint water system."[43]

The task force's findings prompted the resignation of DEQ director Dan Wyant and communications director Brad Wurfel.[45][46] Flint Department of Public Works director Howard Croft also resigned.[47]

On January 8, 2016, the U.S. Attorney's Office for the Eastern District of Michigan said that it was investigating.[14]

The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) "battled Michigan's Department of Environmental Quality behind the scenes for at least six months over whether Flint needed to use chemical treatments to keep lead lines and plumbing connections from leaching into drinking water" and "did not publicize its concern that Flint residents' health was jeopardized by the state's insistence that such controls were not required by law.[48] In 2015, EPA water expert Miguel Del Toral "identified potential problems with Flint's drinking water in February, confirmed the suspicions in April and summarized the looming problem" in an internal memo[49] circulated on June 24, 2015.[48] The Del Toral memo was not publicly released until November 2015, after a revision and vetting process.[48] In the interim, the EPA and the Michigan DEQ engaged in a dispute on how to interpret the Lead and Copper Rule. According to EPA Region 5 Administrator Susan Hedman, the EPA pushed to immediately implement corrosion controls in the interests of public health, while the Michigan DEQ sought to delay a decision on corrosion control until two six-month periods of sampling had been completed.[48] In an interview with the Detroit News published on January 12, Hedman said: "Let's be clear, the recommendation to DEQ (regarding the need for corrosion controls) occurred at higher and higher levels during this time period. And the answer kept coming back from DEQ that 'no, we are not going to make a decision until after we see more testing results.'"[48] Hedman said the EPA did not go public with its concerns earlier because (1) state and local governments have primary responsibility for drinking water quality and safety; (2) there was insufficient evidence at that point of the extent of the danger; and (3) the EPA's legal authority to compel the state to take action was unclear, and the EPA discussed the issue with its legal counsel, who only rendered an opinion in November.[48] Hedman said the EPA discussed the issue with its legal counsel and urged the state to have MDHHS warn residents about the danger.[48]

Assessments of the EPA's action varied. Marc Edwards, who investigated the lead contamination, said that the assessment in Del Toral's original June memo was "100 percent accurate" and criticized the EPA for failing to take more immediate action.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis

IOW, a severe lack of government regulation due to Koch Bros backed Govenor handing executive powers from elected officials to his own handpicked corporate Banker buddy, who began typical "libertarian" government slashing measures and trying to run the city with a corporate mentality (i.e, has zero regard for harm done to people).
 
It sounds like there have already been investigations conducted and culprits named:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis

IOW, a severe lack of government regulation due to Koch Bros backed Govenor handing executive powers from elected officials to his own handpicked corporate Banker buddy, who began typical "libertarian" government slashing measures and trying to run the city with a corporate mentality (i.e, has zero regard for harm done to people).

I'll try to break this slow so heads don't explode: MDEQ and EPA are the government regulators.
 
IOW, a severe lack of government regulation due to Koch Bros backed Govenor handing executive powers from elected officials to his own handpicked corporate Banker buddy, who began typical "libertarian" government slashing measures and trying to run the city with a corporate mentality (i.e, has zero regard for harm done to people).
Had the "elected officials" not bankrupted the city there would be no need or ability to appoint an emergency manager.
 
This situation IS the picture of austerity. And btw, the EPA warned they were diluting the test water and was ignored.
 
The MDEQ and the EPA don't work for the city, city manager, emergency manager, whatever.

The MDEQ seems to have been going out of its way to provide false assurances while the EPA seems to have been aware of the problems for months and is complicit through inaction.

The records — obtained by the Michigan ACLU and by Marc Edwards, a Virginia Tech researcher who helped raise concerns about Flint's water — show how state officials first appear to have encouraged the City of Flint to find water samples with low lead levels and later told Flint officials to disqualify two samples with high readings. The move changed the overall lead level results to acceptable from unacceptable.

The e-mails also show that DEQ district coordinator Stephen Busch told the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency on Feb. 27 that Flint had "an optimized corrosion control program" to prevent lead from leaching into the drinking water from pipes, connections and fixtures. In fact, the city — disastrously — had no corrosion control program.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/pol...-flint-water-samples-delayed-action/77367872/
 
As I try and catch up with this story, looks as if the initial testing of water at homes that are supposed to be the highest risk for lead leaching were actually more likely to have copper pipes, meaning, the Department wasn't testing the right pipes. How many people does it take to screw up on this sort of scale?

Someone wanted Flint River water. How much were they influencing the testing? DEQ, who's head is selected by the Governor and the Emergency manager of the City was appointed repeatedly by Snyder's Administration. The EM wanted to switch to the Flint River. It'd be pretty dumb to have put in emails to fix numbers. Clearly people were getting orders.
 
As I try and catch up with this story, looks as if the initial testing of water at homes that are supposed to be the highest risk for lead leaching were actually more likely to have copper pipes, meaning, the Department wasn't testing the right pipes. How many people does it take to screw up on this sort of scale?

Someone wanted Flint River water. How much were they influencing the testing?

Read the article I just posted. The MDEQ (aka the people in charge of water safety for Michigan) was going so far as to fudge the testing. The were also assuring everyone everything was going to be OK/was OK throughout the process.

Why the MDEQ did what it did it is a question I'm not sure is yet understood, but that they did it is clear enough.
 
This guy writes a pretty good summary of the issue. Seems to agree with whatever else I've seen.

http://gregbranchwords.com/tag/flint-water/

Key takeaways:

Recap

1) Flint’s elected leadership makes what is actually a solid, sound decision that will, in the long run, save the city millions of dollars and give it more control over its destiny – and, because it positions Flint as a wholesale supplier of water, possibly enhance revenues for them.
2) Detroit Water Board decides to be spoiled and pissy and leaves Flint with no good options for the two years before its pipeline is built.
3) Flint’s leadership and GOP-appointed EFM make a well-deliberated decision to draw water from the Flint River.
4) Flint’s water staff – the people in Flint who are the experts on this sort of thing – apparently aren’t up to the task. And the people they count on to oversee and help them …
5) The Michigan DEQ, is completely asleep at the switch. And once they discover their mistake, they lie about it and ask Flint to help them lie.
6) US EPA is aware of a problem, but apparently trusted the kids playing in the DEQ sandbox to fix things.
 
I would like to thank dismal for providing the information perfectly illustrating how regulatory capture occurs when you elect free-marketeers to government office.
 
I would like to thank dismal for providing the information perfectly illustrating how regulatory capture occurs when you elect free-marketeers to government office.

What does this have to do with "regulatory capture" or "free markets"?

It's government agencies, government regulators, and regulators of government regulators far as the eye can see.
 
I would like to thank dismal for providing the information perfectly illustrating how regulatory capture occurs when you elect free-marketeers to government office.

What does this have to do with "regulatory capture" or "free markets"?

It's government agencies, government regulators, and regulators of government regulators far as the eye can see.

Yes, yes it is.

Since when have you been in favor of EPA regulations? Shouldn't the free market deal with that? Why is there lead in the water anyway? Did government regulators put it there?
 
IOW, a severe lack of government regulation due to Koch Bros backed Govenor handing executive powers from elected officials to his own handpicked corporate Banker buddy, who began typical "libertarian" government slashing measures and trying to run the city with a corporate mentality (i.e, has zero regard for harm done to people).
Had the "elected officials" not bankrupted the city there would be no need or ability to appoint an emergency manager.

Why are the words "elected officials" in scare quotes in your nonsensical post above?
 
Had the "elected officials" not bankrupted the city there would be no need or ability to appoint an emergency manager.

Why are the words "elected officials" in scare quotes in your nonsensical post above?

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that he thinks the major industry packing up and leaving the city had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Flint's financial woes, and it was all the fault of government.
 
The DEQ wasn't asleep at the switch. Their testing program had to be wholly inadequate on purpose and then really bad results were tossed out to keep the average acceptable. So they didn't test enough homes with lead pipes, and the ones they did, they removed from the result list.
 
What does this have to do with "regulatory capture" or "free markets"?

It's government agencies, government regulators, and regulators of government regulators far as the eye can see.

Yes, yes it is.

Since when have you been in favor of EPA regulations? Shouldn't the free market deal with that? Why is there lead in the water anyway? Did government regulators put it there?

Pretty sure this story is not about me.

But if you can find some quotes where I have said we should pay EPA regulators to do nothing while people are being poisoned feel free to produce them.

If you read the article, the lead is in the water because the Flint water department (aka the government) did not treat the water properly (aka their job).
 
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