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So what's the deal with Hillary now?

Elixir said:
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
All failures are opportunities. She is making lemonade from lemons by making money from her failure. She will make millions in profit from this book.
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Better yet, she is irritating El Cheato by vastly outselling the piece of trash he is so proud of.

"On Wednesday, the Associated Press reported that What Happened sold more than 300,000 copies in combined formats since its launch–including 168,000 hardcover sales, the highest nonfiction opening release in the last five years. <snip> While precise figures for the number of copies of The Art of the Deal that were sold during its initial publication in 1987 are not readily available, some numbers can be extrapolated. Timothy O’Brien, who wrote a biography of Trump, says The Art of the Deal only had a 150,000 copy run during its first printing, which would already place it behind What Happened.​
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There again his book went on to be a No 1 best seller for several weeks. There again Hilary could reach that. Readers want to know who she is blaming (apart from herself) who lost the election
 
whichphilosophy said:
There again his book went on to be a No 1 best seller for several weeks. There again Hilary could reach that. Readers want to know who she is blaming (apart from herself) who lost the election
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It seems that the list has grown to include everyone except herself. The list now includes even those who actively campaigned for her.
 
skepticalbip said:
whichphilosophy said:
There again his book went on to be a No 1 best seller for several weeks. There again Hilary could reach that. Readers want to know who she is blaming (apart from herself) who lost the election
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It seems that the list has grown to include everyone except herself. The list now includes even those who actively campaigned for her.
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Anyone still unaware of who she is blaming isn't paying attention. Skep gives a good synopsis...
In fairness, Trump's victory was the result of a lot of factors beyond her control, as well as a good number of factors she should have better controlled.
 
To be fair to Bernie, in 2008, 24% of Hillary supporters went on to vote for McCain instead of Obama. Meanwhile, only 12% of Bernie supporters went on to vote for Trump. Relative to how much she helped Obama, Bernie helped her much more...

What really hurt the Hillary campaign was fake news from the Right--to include Nazis, alt-right'ers; and from the Russians. James Comey butting in with his investigation or whatever it was also changed the face of the election because that was aligned with so much fake news. If that factor were not present, Hillary would have taken the electoral college vote.

She also had an alternate way of winning, even if Comey did what he did, and that would have been for her campaign and herself to understand the electorate better and focus more on the "Reagan Democrat areas" areas she ended up losing. The combination of her flips on trade, not focusing on/understanding these places, and wall street connections created an image of an untrustworthy corporate democrat which helps with big donations but not votes from suffering union members.

Her and her campaign's own failings need to be part of a retrospective analysis because they say 'those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.' It applies as much to suffering union voters as it does to top brass democrats, too.
 
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
What really hurt the Hillary campaign was fake news from the Right--to include Nazis, alt-right'ers; and from the Russians. James Comey butting in with his investigation or whatever it was also changed the face of the election because that was aligned with so much fake news. If that factor were not present, Hillary would have taken the electoral college vote.

She also had an alternate way of winning, even if Comey did what he did, and that would have been for her campaign and herself to understand the electorate better and focus more on the "Reagan Democrat areas" areas she ended up losing. The combination of her flips on trade, not focusing on/understanding these places, and wall street connections created an image of an untrustworthy corporate democrat which helps with big donations but not votes from suffering union members.

Her and her campaign's own failings need to be part of a retrospective analysis because they say 'those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.' It applies as much to suffering union voters as it does to top brass democrats, too.
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People did this type of speculation during and after the 2012 election, which conveniently made it out like now that Romney gets to move a completely different chess piece, Obama still has to play his turn exactly the same way as before.
 
Hillary ran on "I'm not Trump", which actually got her a ton of votes, and may have been successful, had she not been Hillary. I still say the biggest reason she lost was because of her own sense of entitlement. Her establishment image of pay by play corruption, highlighted by Bernie talking about her taking money from Wall Street, and then Trump calling her "Crooked Hillary" and her "I'm with her" instead of "She's with us" slogan really did her in. I think there were many factors, but that one dwarfs Comey, Russins, sexism, racism, etc. She was just a horrible candidate that failed to beat the worst candidate the republicans have ever run. I strongly believe that Bernie, Obama, Biden, Gore, and even O'Malley could have defeated Trump in the general election. Even Chaffe the guy who choked royally in the early Dem debates may have beaten Trump.

Hillary is going around pointing the finger and saying she can't grant people forgiveness, when she should be going around begging for forgiveness.

The bigger question now is will the Democrats follow the Berniecrats into the future and win a landslide victory, or will they keep with the corporate democrats and risk losing to Trump for a second term?

I've got my eye on the Berniecrats and have my fingers crossed for them.
 
Jolly_Penguin said:
Hillary ran on "I'm not Trump", which actually got her a ton of votes, and may have been successful, had she not been Hillary. I still say the biggest reason she lost was because of her own sense of entitlement. Her establishment image of pay by play corruption, highlighted by Bernie talking about her taking money from Wall Street, and then Trump calling her "Crooked Hillary" and her "I'm with her" instead of "She's with us" slogan really did her in. I think there were many factors, but that one dwarfs Comey, Russins, sexism, racism, etc. She was just a horrible candidate that failed to beat the worst candidate the republicans have ever run. I strongly believe that Bernie, Obama, Biden, Gore, and even O'Malley could have defeated Trump in the general election. Even Chaffe the guy who choked royally in the early Dem debates may have beaten Trump.

Hillary is going around pointing the finger and saying she can't grant people forgiveness, when she should be going around begging for forgiveness.

The bigger question now is will the Democrats follow the Berniecrats into the future and win a landslide victory, or will they keep with the corporate democrats and risk losing to Trump for a second term?

I've got my eye on the Berniecrats and have my fingers crossed for them.
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Trump was constantly dropping hints in order to court Sanders supporters, so I think he would have done just fine.
 
untermensche said:
This insane fascination with Hillary Clinton.

She is just a run of the mill moderate conservative.

The fact that the Republican Party no longer has moderates and only has radical conservatives doesn't make Hillary anything special.
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Actually, the way you put it, it does make her somewhat special in a way she wasn't 20--or perhaps even 20 years ago. (What I can't get over is how the Democrats for years fixated on and groomed the worst woman available to them for the job--I guess they figured the voters would not substantially vote for whatever even worse man the Republicans dredged up.)
 
Jolly_Penguin said:
Hillary ran on "I'm not Trump", which actually got her a ton of votes, and may have been successful, had she not been Hillary. I still say the biggest reason she lost was because of her own sense of entitlement. Her establishment image of pay by play corruption, highlighted by Bernie talking about her taking money from Wall Street, and then Trump calling her "Crooked Hillary" and her "I'm with her" instead of "She's with us" slogan really did her in. I think there were many factors, but that one dwarfs Comey, Russins, sexism, racism, etc. She was just a horrible candidate that failed to beat the worst candidate the republicans have ever run. I strongly believe that Bernie, Obama, Biden, Gore, and even O'Malley could have defeated Trump in the general election. Even Chaffe the guy who choked royally in the early Dem debates may have beaten Trump.

Hillary is going around pointing the finger and saying she can't grant people forgiveness, when she should be going around begging for forgiveness.

The bigger question now is will the Democrats follow the Berniecrats into the future and win a landslide victory, or will they keep with the corporate democrats and risk losing to Trump for a second term?

I've got my eye on the Berniecrats and have my fingers crossed for them.
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She lost when she named a loaf of white bread the VP running mate.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
Jolly_Penguin said:
Hillary ran on "I'm not Trump", which actually got her a ton of votes, and may have been successful, had she not been Hillary. I still say the biggest reason she lost was because of her own sense of entitlement. Her establishment image of pay by play corruption, highlighted by Bernie talking about her taking money from Wall Street, and then Trump calling her "Crooked Hillary" and her "I'm with her" instead of "She's with us" slogan really did her in. I think there were many factors, but that one dwarfs Comey, Russins, sexism, racism, etc. She was just a horrible candidate that failed to beat the worst candidate the republicans have ever run. I strongly believe that Bernie, Obama, Biden, Gore, and even O'Malley could have defeated Trump in the general election. Even Chaffe the guy who choked royally in the early Dem debates may have beaten Trump.

Hillary is going around pointing the finger and saying she can't grant people forgiveness, when she should be going around begging for forgiveness.

The bigger question now is will the Democrats follow the Berniecrats into the future and win a landslide victory, or will they keep with the corporate democrats and risk losing to Trump for a second term?

I've got my eye on the Berniecrats and have my fingers crossed for them.
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She lost when she named a loaf of white bread the VP running mate.
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Indeed. Should have given it to Elizabeth Warren. Might have brought more Bernie Socialists to the table who'd be willing to take the concession.
 
jab said:
untermensche said:
This insane fascination with Hillary Clinton.

She is just a run of the mill moderate conservative.

The fact that the Republican Party no longer has moderates and only has radical conservatives doesn't make Hillary anything special.
Click to expand...

Actually, the way you put it, it does make her somewhat special in a way she wasn't 20--or perhaps even 20 years ago. (What I can't get over is how the Democrats for years fixated on and groomed the worst woman available to them for the job--I guess they figured the voters would not substantially vote for whatever even worse man the Republicans dredged up.)
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If she was already considered so bad, then it makes sense that more and better candidates would have gotten in the primary.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
Jolly_Penguin said:
Hillary ran on "I'm not Trump", which actually got her a ton of votes, and may have been successful, had she not been Hillary. I still say the biggest reason she lost was because of her own sense of entitlement. Her establishment image of pay by play corruption, highlighted by Bernie talking about her taking money from Wall Street, and then Trump calling her "Crooked Hillary" and her "I'm with her" instead of "She's with us" slogan really did her in. I think there were many factors, but that one dwarfs Comey, Russins, sexism, racism, etc. She was just a horrible candidate that failed to beat the worst candidate the republicans have ever run. I strongly believe that Bernie, Obama, Biden, Gore, and even O'Malley could have defeated Trump in the general election. Even Chaffe the guy who choked royally in the early Dem debates may have beaten Trump.

Hillary is going around pointing the finger and saying she can't grant people forgiveness, when she should be going around begging for forgiveness.

The bigger question now is will the Democrats follow the Berniecrats into the future and win a landslide victory, or will they keep with the corporate democrats and risk losing to Trump for a second term?

I've got my eye on the Berniecrats and have my fingers crossed for them.
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She lost when she named a loaf of white bread the VP running mate.
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Yup. This was astounding to me. It showed such a lack of insight into the electorate. Who the hell were they trying to win over? Southern White Males who have been conditioned to hate her since birth?

That was absolutely nuts and truly showed the depths of the campaign's lack of insight, and their apparently never-ending supply of arrogance. They should have grabbed someone with at least *some* credibility with union-types. Tim - Will-Somebody-Please-Think-of-the-Banks Kaine was not it.

I mean, they should have been truly shaken by how close Sanders got, and by electing Kaine, they gave a big "Fuck You" to the already pissed Sanders supporters.

Again, totally nuts.
 
J842P said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
She lost when she named a loaf of white bread the VP running mate.
Click to expand...

Yup. This was astounding to me. It showed such a lack of insight into the electorate. Who the hell were they trying to win over? Southern White Males who have been conditioned to hate her since birth?

That was absolutely nuts and truly showed the depths of the campaign's lack of insight, and their apparently never-ending supply of arrogance. They should have grabbed someone with at least *some* credibility with union-types. Tim - Will-Somebody-Please-Think-of-the-Banks Kaine was not it.

I mean, they should have been truly shaken by how close Sanders got, and by electing Kaine, they gave a big "Fuck You" to the already pissed Sanders supporters.

Again, totally nuts.
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How so? What policies does Kaine have that are so bad?
 
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I'm not sold on what Warren added to the ticket.


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