Society For The Prevention Of medical Mass Murder

[LordKiran]

It is composed of incredible mugs who believe they will become rich. In what sense is a country a democracy where the rich can buy elections?

The rich win election win by buying media time and nagging people. But there's only so much you can talk people into. There's limits. And that's what makes it a democracy. No democracy is perfect. There will always be an elite in power. There's nothing wrong or undemocratic about that.

Yes, there's a myth in the USA that everybody can become rich if they just work hard enough. Who are we supposed to blame for that wide spread myth? Every culture have bullshit myths about itself.

The people who buy that myth and go into life unready and with unrealistic expectations? Do people usually become rich within one generation?

 

[DrZoidberg]

The rich win election win by buying media time and nagging people. But there's only so much you can talk people into. There's limits. And that's what makes it a democracy. No democracy is perfect. There will always be an elite in power. There's nothing wrong or undemocratic about that.

Yes, there's a myth in the USA that everybody can become rich if they just work hard enough. Who are we supposed to blame for that wide spread myth? Every culture have bullshit myths about itself.

The people who buy that myth and go into life unready and with unrealistic expectations? Do people usually become rich within one generation?

Excuse me.... Have you ever met a young person with realistic expectations? I'd argue there's no such animal. Running head-first into the brick wall of reality, is what we call growing up.

It's not the fault of the greedy imperialist capitalist oppressors that young people have unrealistic expectations. If people had realistic expectations nobody would ever start any companies.

The fastest way to become rich(-er) is to live in a country that's undergoing rapid growth. People become the richest when most people gets rich at the same time. You get synergistic effects that are hard to beat. That's still as true as it's ever been.

Sweden went from one of the world's poorest countries in the end of the 19'th century to one of the richest countries in the world today. Here every new generation is rich compared to the last. Sure, there's countries that are richer than us. But if we compare within Swede we're all swimming in money now. It's all relative.

 

[iolo]

It is composed of incredible mugs who believe they will become rich. In what sense is a country a democracy where the rich can buy elections?

The rich win election win by buying media time and nagging people. But there's only so much you can talk people into. There's limits. And that's what makes it a democracy. No democracy is perfect. There will always be an elite in power. There's nothing wrong or undemocratic about that.

Yes, there's a myth in the USA that everybody can become rich if they just work hard enough. Who are we supposed to blame for that wide spread myth? Every culture have bullshit myths about itself.

If you can talk the mugs into electing a spoilt little self-obsessed rich boy President you can talk them into anything, surely?

 

[DrZoidberg]

The rich win election win by buying media time and nagging people. But there's only so much you can talk people into. There's limits. And that's what makes it a democracy. No democracy is perfect. There will always be an elite in power. There's nothing wrong or undemocratic about that.

Yes, there's a myth in the USA that everybody can become rich if they just work hard enough. Who are we supposed to blame for that wide spread myth? Every culture have bullshit myths about itself.

If you can talk the mugs into electing a spoilt little self-obsessed rich boy President you can talk them into anything, surely?

In USA businessmen are respected, and even revered. That's pretty unique in the world. In most countries a businessman wouldn't survive a minute in politics. For example, Swedish politicians get active as teenagers in various political organisations and then make a career out of that. In Sweden we have a dichotomy between the people on one hand and business on the other. Where business is seen with great suspicion. It's
seen as a corrupting force spreading evil. Especially it's leaders. I just offered Sweden as an example.

Trump didn't create that American businessman friendly culture. He's just reaping the benefit's of it.

 

[iolo]

If you can talk the mugs into electing a spoilt little self-obsessed rich boy President you can talk them into anything, surely?

In USA businessmen are respected, and even revered. That's pretty unique in the world. In most countries a businessman wouldn't survive a minute in politics. For example, Swedish politicians get active as teenagers in various political organisations and then make a career out of that. In Sweden we have a dichotomy between the people on one hand and business on the other. Where business is seen with great suspicion. It's
seen as a corrupting force spreading evil. Especially it's leaders. I just offered Sweden as an example.

Trump didn't create that American businessman friendly culture. He's just reaping the benefit's of it.

At the cost of any serious belief in American democracy, surely?

 

[DrZoidberg]

In USA businessmen are respected, and even revered. That's pretty unique in the world. In most countries a businessman wouldn't survive a minute in politics. For example, Swedish politicians get active as teenagers in various political organisations and then make a career out of that. In Sweden we have a dichotomy between the people on one hand and business on the other. Where business is seen with great suspicion. It's
seen as a corrupting force spreading evil. Especially it's leaders. I just offered Sweden as an example.

Trump didn't create that American businessman friendly culture. He's just reaping the benefit's of it.

At the cost of any serious belief in American democracy, surely?

No. It is democracy. Every country has bullshit myths about itself. It's the myths that create the environment from which our political leaders emerge. In Sweden the myth is that the best leaders are those untainted about the evils of capitalism. Preferably from a poor background. It's just as much a bullshit myth. All these myths are grossly simplistic. In Sweden we hold our leaders to moral standards that are completely unrealistic for anybody to live up to. So hardly anybody wants to be the prime minister. I'm not sure that's so good either.

I'm personally not convinced business leaders make good political leaders. Business leadership is about taking risks and being a maverick. But leading countries is mostly about reaching compromises. I think it's a bad school for political leadership. Trump seems to demonstrate this very well.

But are they necessarily corrupt and evil? Of course not.

 

[iolo]

At the cost of any serious belief in American democracy, surely?

No. It is democracy. Every country has bullshit myths about itself. It's the myths that create the environment from which our political leaders emerge. In Sweden the myth is that the best leaders are those untainted about the evils of capitalism. Preferably from a poor background. It's just as much a bullshit myth. All these myths are grossly simplistic. In Sweden we hold our leaders to moral standards that are completely unrealistic for anybody to live up to. So hardly anybody wants to be the prime minister. I'm not sure that's so good either.

I'm personally not convinced business leaders make good political leaders. Business leadership is about taking risks and being a maverick. But leading countries is mostly about reaching compromises. I think it's a bad school for political leadership. Trump seems to demonstrate this very well.

But are they necessarily corrupt and evil? Of course not.

I'm personally convinced that all businessmen are criminals, that they make criminal politicians, and that they have no place whatever in any democracy - but then, I tend to believe in democracy, unlike most Americans.

 

[LordKiran]

The people who buy that myth and go into life unready and with unrealistic expectations? Do people usually become rich within one generation?

Excuse me.... Have you ever met a young person with realistic expectations? I'd argue there's no such animal. Running head-first into the brick wall of reality, is what we call growing up.

It's not the fault of the greedy imperialist capitalist oppressors that young people have unrealistic expectations. If people had realistic expectations nobody would ever start any companies.

The fastest way to become rich(-er) is to live in a country that's undergoing rapid growth. People become the richest when most people gets rich at the same time. You get synergistic effects that are hard to beat. That's still as true as it's ever been.

Sweden went from one of the world's poorest countries in the end of the 19'th century to one of the richest countries in the world today. Here every new generation is rich compared to the last. Sure, there's countries that are richer than us. But if we compare within Swede we're all swimming in money now. It's all relative.

Ironically, I expected to be working some shit job so that I could barely afford a one room flat. I ended up with what those young people think will just magically happen to them. In any case I don't think this has to do with young people but that they aren't properly prepared for their futures. We take kids and tell them "You can do anything!" when we all know full well that's just bullshit we tell them. Eventually someone has to draw the short stick. Hope it's not you, but don't expect anything better.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Excuse me.... Have you ever met a young person with realistic expectations? I'd argue there's no such animal. Running head-first into the brick wall of reality, is what we call growing up.

It's not the fault of the greedy imperialist capitalist oppressors that young people have unrealistic expectations. If people had realistic expectations nobody would ever start any companies.

The fastest way to become rich(-er) is to live in a country that's undergoing rapid growth. People become the richest when most people gets rich at the same time. You get synergistic effects that are hard to beat. That's still as true as it's ever been.

Sweden went from one of the world's poorest countries in the end of the 19'th century to one of the richest countries in the world today. Here every new generation is rich compared to the last. Sure, there's countries that are richer than us. But if we compare within Swede we're all swimming in money now. It's all relative.

Ironically, I expected to be working some shit job so that I could barely afford a one room flat. I ended up with what those young people think will just magically happen to them. In any case I don't think this has to do with young people but that they aren't properly prepared for their futures. We take kids and tell them "You can do anything!" when we all know full well that's just bullshit we tell them. Eventually someone has to draw the short stick. Hope it's not you, but don't expect anything better.

That's why I'm a lefty. There's just so much random in the world. Sure, it doesn't hurt to work hard. But luck is more important than anything else. To be successful you have to work hard AND be lucky. Very lucky.

I've had two careers and both have gone swimmingly well. But both my careers I jumped onto the bandwagon right at the beginning of a major world shift. How much of my success is attributed to my work, and how much is because I was just at the right place at the right time? I once started a company that went tits up. All the experts I spoke to told me that I had every reason to think it would succeed. So much random.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I'm personally convinced that all businessmen are criminals, that they make criminal politicians, and that they have no place whatever in any democracy - but then, I tend to believe in democracy, unlike most Americans.

Talk about using a broad brush!

 

[DrZoidberg]

No. It is democracy. Every country has bullshit myths about itself. It's the myths that create the environment from which our political leaders emerge. In Sweden the myth is that the best leaders are those untainted about the evils of capitalism. Preferably from a poor background. It's just as much a bullshit myth. All these myths are grossly simplistic. In Sweden we hold our leaders to moral standards that are completely unrealistic for anybody to live up to. So hardly anybody wants to be the prime minister. I'm not sure that's so good either.

I'm personally not convinced business leaders make good political leaders. Business leadership is about taking risks and being a maverick. But leading countries is mostly about reaching compromises. I think it's a bad school for political leadership. Trump seems to demonstrate this very well.

But are they necessarily corrupt and evil? Of course not.

I'm personally convinced that all businessmen are criminals, that they make criminal politicians, and that they have no place whatever in any democracy - but then, I tend to believe in democracy, unlike most Americans.

I think this is a good example of the kind of simplistic myths that operate in cultures.

 

[iolo]

I'm personally convinced that all businessmen are criminals, that they make criminal politicians, and that they have no place whatever in any democracy - but then, I tend to believe in democracy, unlike most Americans.

I think this is a good example of the kind of simplistic myths that operate in cultures.

I simply express the universal experience of my own class and culture. How on earth would an honest businessman survive? Fortunately there are none.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I think this is a good example of the kind of simplistic myths that operate in cultures.

I simply express the universal experience of my own class and culture. How on earth would an honest businessman survive? Fortunately there are none.

I think an honest businessman has an easier time surviving than a crooked one. Most businessmen are dependent on repeat customers. If they don't give their partner business/customer a good deal they won't come back.

Don't forget that nobody really knows the true market value for something until after the fact. All parties in the market are just trying to get the best deal they can get. That's not being dishonest.

Business profits rests upon synergistic effects. Each actor on the market perfecting what they're good at, selling it, and buying that which they're less good at. The result is that everybody gets more perfect products. The boon of the free market is beyond question. Even Karl Marx didn't question that.

The idea/myth that somebody successful only can become such by being crooked is an ancient one. It's fundamentally just jealousy. People typically overvalue their own honesty and undervalue others honesty. "I'm an honest guy and I'm not rich, and Steve is rich, so therefore Steve is dishonest".

I don't think honesty is a factor in why businessmen are bad political leaders. Businesses are inherently run as dictatorships. It's the only way to create an efficient company. But there are other factors more important for a country than just efficiency. There's stuff like rights to protect. I don't think businessmen have the training to take that into account. It's a different skillset.

 

[iolo]

'Business' rests on universal exploitation, lying and straightforward thieving. I cannot imagine any decent person's being 'jealous' of such sub-human scum. You believers in capitalist ideology are very weird.

 

[whichphilosophy]

'Business' rests on universal exploitation, lying and straightforward thieving. I cannot imagine any decent person's being 'jealous' of such sub-human scum. You believers in capitalist ideology are very weird.

Sounds a bit like a description of politicians.

 

[iolo]

'Business' rests on universal exploitation, lying and straightforward thieving. I cannot imagine any decent person's being 'jealous' of such sub-human scum. You believers in capitalist ideology are very weird.

Sounds a bit like a description of politicians.

Politicians who serve business - most do.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

'Business' rests on universal exploitation, lying and straightforward thieving. I cannot imagine any decent person's being 'jealous' of such sub-human scum. You believers in capitalist ideology are very weird.

The alternatives are far worse.

 

[Bomb#20]

I think an honest businessman has an easier time surviving than a crooked one. Most businessmen are dependent on repeat customers. If they don't give their partner business/customer a good deal they won't come back.
...
Business profits rests upon synergistic effects. Each actor on the market perfecting what they're good at, selling it, and buying that which they're less good at. The result is that everybody gets more perfect products. The boon of the free market is beyond question. Even Karl Marx didn't question that.
...

'Business' rests on universal exploitation, lying and straightforward thieving. I cannot imagine any decent person's being 'jealous' of such sub-human scum. You believers in capitalist ideology are very weird.

The alternatives are far worse.

Good arguments; but arguments are software and you're up against a hardware problem. In the 19th century it was still possible for a good person to be against capitalism. In the 21st century being against capitalism takes a disease of the moral sense. Those who want to rerun the experiment anyway even though they know perfectly well from the history of the 20th century that whenever political power is handed to people who intend to abolish capitalism, they always kill a great many innocent people, they always betray the very classes they claim to represent, they always set up a police state, and they usually cause a famine, are evidently too much in love with their own egos to have the moral fortitude to question their religious convictions. What argument could teach what Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Kim Il Sung and Pol Pot could not?

 

[Underseer]

Orrin Hatch, Senator from Utah is angry that Bernie Sanders has denounced the GOP Trumpcare plans as surely going to cause many people who will lose health care under the GOP plans to die, over time.

The problem is, many experts in the health care field have declared that if passed, the GOP plan will indeed cause just that.

I see this as a moral problem on the part of the GOP and idiots like Orrin Hatch. Apparently Hatch objects to Bernie's rhetoric, but if hot rhetoric is what it takes to deter the GOP from a policy that will in fact cause many deaths, it seems to me to be a duty.

This is becoming a war of words America cannot afford to lose.

Of course this will in the end expand it's boundaries as an issue. Do Americans have a right to decent health care, or just a privileged, a privileged withdrawn if it means the rich lose tax cuts. Do Americans deserve clean air, water and food even if that takes strong regulation?

Should any political policy be examined for it's morality in this fashion? And to what extent? It is obvious that the current members of the GOP side of Congress don't care.

Are you suggesting that America not let tens of thousands of people die every year so that rich people can get a tax cut?

Oh my gosh! You are persecuting rich people! How dare you? Waaaah!

 

[iolo]

'Business' rests on universal exploitation, lying and straightforward thieving. I cannot imagine any decent person's being 'jealous' of such sub-human scum. You believers in capitalist ideology are very weird.

The alternatives are far worse.

Democratic control of industry and an end of the profit motive? Things would go wonderfully more slowly and not particularly efficiently, but we'd avoid all these wars and the constant threat of extinction.