Society For The Prevention Of medical Mass Murder

[iolo]

'Business' rests on universal exploitation, lying and straightforward thieving. I cannot imagine any decent person's being 'jealous' of such sub-human scum. You believers in capitalist ideology are very weird.

The alternatives are far worse.

Good arguments; but arguments are software and you're up against a hardware problem. In the 19th century it was still possible for a good person to be against capitalism. In the 21st century being against capitalism takes a disease of the moral sense. Those who want to rerun the experiment anyway even though they know perfectly well from the history of the 20th century that whenever political power is handed to people who intend to abolish capitalism, they always kill a great many innocent people, they always betray the very classes they claim to represent, they always set up a police state, and they usually cause a famine, are evidently too much in love with their own egos to have the moral fortitude to question their religious convictions. What argument could teach what Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Kim Il Sung and Pol Pot could not?

Power 'was handed', to people who wanted to abolish it, was it? As my history books had it, a tiny minority of socialists were left unmurdered to represent a class that, in the areas they controlled, had disappeared, with the option either of setting up a dictatorship or having their own families killed. State Capitalism was the normal product of monopoly-capitalist oppression, and proves only that we should never believe anything these killers try to brainwash us with.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The alternatives are far worse.

Democratic control of industry and an end of the profit motive? Things would go wonderfully more slowly and not particularly efficiently, but we'd avoid all these wars and the constant threat of extinction.

Yeah, we would trade the threat of extinction for the reality--slow and inefficient guarantees a resource collapse.

And note that your system is unstable--when there's nobody capable of war there's nobody capable of standing up to a warlord. In the real world somebody will be in power, you want a system that chooses leaders most responsive to the needs of the people. You don't pretend you can have no power.

 

[iolo]

Democratic control of industry and an end of the profit motive? Things would go wonderfully more slowly and not particularly efficiently, but we'd avoid all these wars and the constant threat of extinction.

Yeah, we would trade the threat of extinction for the reality--slow and inefficient guarantees a resource collapse.

And note that your system is unstable--when there's nobody capable of war there's nobody capable of standing up to a warlord. In the real world somebody will be in power, you want a system that chooses leaders most responsive to the needs of the people. You don't pretend you can have no power.

Extinction, clearly, is looming under capitalism - doubt humanity will see out my time if it clings to the insanity. Vast resources are meanwhile being thrown away on profit for thieves. Where are warlords going to come from - your arse? Don't try to be sillier than God made you. I do absolutely 'pretend' you can have no power for your silly games, because the people will stop you in ten minutes if you try. Grow up!

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yeah, we would trade the threat of extinction for the reality--slow and inefficient guarantees a resource collapse.

And note that your system is unstable--when there's nobody capable of war there's nobody capable of standing up to a warlord. In the real world somebody will be in power, you want a system that chooses leaders most responsive to the needs of the people. You don't pretend you can have no power.

Extinction, clearly, is looming under capitalism - doubt humanity will see out my time if it clings to the insanity. Vast resources are meanwhile being thrown away on profit for thieves. Where are warlords going to come from - your arse? Don't try to be sillier than God made you. I do absolutely 'pretend' you can have no power for your silly games, because the people will stop you in ten minutes if you try. Grow up!

You are advocating jumping from the frying pan to the fire.

We are facing a collapse due to resource depletion. The only way we are going to avoid this is through technology--and a system that is slow and inefficient can't hope to develop the technology needed. Thus certain doom.

As for where warlords are going to come from--there's always some with that mentality. The people will have no ability to deal with an organized warlord.

 

[iolo]

Extinction, clearly, is looming under capitalism - doubt humanity will see out my time if it clings to the insanity. Vast resources are meanwhile being thrown away on profit for thieves. Where are warlords going to come from - your arse? Don't try to be sillier than God made you. I do absolutely 'pretend' you can have no power for your silly games, because the people will stop you in ten minutes if you try. Grow up!

You are advocating jumping from the frying pan to the fire.

We are facing a collapse due to resource depletion. The only way we are going to avoid this is through technology--and a system that is slow and inefficient can't hope to develop the technology needed. Thus certain doom.

As for where warlords are going to come from--there's always some with that mentality. The people will have no ability to deal with an organized warlord.

Listen, child: without capitalism, where will they get money or power to destroy humanity? The insane system has VAST costs in brainwashing, lawyers, gunmen and so on, and without it your gang wouldn't last five minutes, as you know.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You are advocating jumping from the frying pan to the fire.

We are facing a collapse due to resource depletion. The only way we are going to avoid this is through technology--and a system that is slow and inefficient can't hope to develop the technology needed. Thus certain doom.

As for where warlords are going to come from--there's always some with that mentality. The people will have no ability to deal with an organized warlord.

Listen, child: without capitalism, where will they get money or power to destroy humanity? The insane system has VAST costs in brainwashing, lawyers, gunmen and so on, and without it your gang wouldn't last five minutes, as you know.

No power is needed--simple inaction will do us in.

 

[iolo]

Listen, child: without capitalism, where will they get money or power to destroy humanity? The insane system has VAST costs in brainwashing, lawyers, gunmen and so on, and without it your gang wouldn't last five minutes, as you know.

No power is needed--simple inaction will do us in.

How will a tiny psychotic minority manage to control humanity? You'll just get your arse thoroughly kicked.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

No power is needed--simple inaction will do us in.

How will a tiny psychotic minority manage to control humanity? You'll just get your arse thoroughly kicked.

Look at the world, in the absence of meaningful law enforcement you get warlords. A group gets together, nobody dares take them on.

 

[iolo]

How will a tiny psychotic minority manage to control humanity? You'll just get your arse thoroughly kicked.

Look at the world, in the absence of meaningful law enforcement you get warlords. A group gets together, nobody dares take them on.

How? You think everyone is as thick as right-wing Americans? Any trade's council on earth could see off a few silly bullies in five minutes.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Look at the world, in the absence of meaningful law enforcement you get warlords. A group gets together, nobody dares take them on.

How? You think everyone is as thick as right-wing Americans? Any trade's council on earth could see off a few silly bullies in five minutes.

That's not what happens in the real world. If the central government is ineffective the land ends up ruled by local warlords.

 

[Underseer]

Democratic control of industry and an end of the profit motive? Things would go wonderfully more slowly and not particularly efficiently, but we'd avoid all these wars and the constant threat of extinction.

Yeah, we would trade the threat of extinction for the reality--slow and inefficient guarantees a resource collapse.

And note that your system is unstable--when there's nobody capable of war there's nobody capable of standing up to a warlord. In the real world somebody will be in power, you want a system that chooses leaders most responsive to the needs of the people. You don't pretend you can have no power.

Wait.

Let me see if I have your argument correct: modern health care such as the entire rest of the industrialized world has would be a bad thing because then it would be impossible to stop warlords?

How would saving money on health care make it impossible to stop warlords? Your argument doesn't even make sense. Are insurance company shareholders a critical component of a functioning military or something?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yeah, we would trade the threat of extinction for the reality--slow and inefficient guarantees a resource collapse.

And note that your system is unstable--when there's nobody capable of war there's nobody capable of standing up to a warlord. In the real world somebody will be in power, you want a system that chooses leaders most responsive to the needs of the people. You don't pretend you can have no power.

Wait.

Let me see if I have your argument correct: modern health care such as the entire rest of the industrialized world has would be a bad thing because then it would be impossible to stop warlords?

How would saving money on health care make it impossible to stop warlords? Your argument doesn't even make sense. Are insurance company shareholders a critical component of a functioning military or something?

I do not understand where your jump is coming from.

He's after a fantasyworld where there's no central authority and everyone magically behaves decently. He admits it would cause a lot of inefficiency--and I pointed out that said inefficiency would doom mankind. That has nothing to do with health insurance.

 

[iolo]

Wait.

Let me see if I have your argument correct: modern health care such as the entire rest of the industrialized world has would be a bad thing because then it would be impossible to stop warlords?

How would saving money on health care make it impossible to stop warlords? Your argument doesn't even make sense. Are insurance company shareholders a critical component of a functioning military or something?

I do not understand where your jump is coming from.

He's after a fantasyworld where there's no central authority and everyone magically behaves decently. He admits it would cause a lot of inefficiency--and I pointed out that said inefficiency would doom mankind. That has nothing to do with health insurance.

What you call 'central authority' other people call government - the central committee of the boss class. You think we are going to chuck those super-bullies in the dustbin and allow some local yobboes to rule instead? I'm afraid you are hopelessly naïve. People learn by doing - like shutting up drunken clowns and propagandists.