South Carolina police officer investigated after slamming student to ground at Spring Valley High

[Jimmy Higgins]

Now they are in for it. Mr. Sex, Drugs, & Rock-n-Roll has spoken:

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/conte...teen-who-was-violently-arrested-had-it-coming

Nugent, proudly boasting that he was challenging “political correctness” and “liberal denial freaks,” wrote that he was proud of the officer for having “yanked the Spring Valley High School defiant brat out of her classroom desk and dragged her kicking and squealing like the disobedient punk she is.”

“Act like an animal and you will end up being treated like an animal,” he added.

Yeah, take that you animal....

I wasn't aware that animals could use smart phones.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I wasn't aware that animals could use smart phones.

Some subhuman species like chimpanzees and negroes have demonstrated the ability to use basic technology in everyday tasks.

 

[Rhea]

If a student refuses to comply with teachers, administrators, and police officers then the only means left to enforce a rule is physical force.

This has been explained why those who actually work in these situations know that this is not true.
People who have DONE THIS without violence.

Can you please present what in your background makes you feel that people who have successfully solved these situations without violence cannot possibly have done so? Can you explain why you should be believed when you claim this versus thoase who have said why they know it works?

I reference an earlier post of this question in post 281

where I ask you:

So this an area of curiosity for me. Maxparrish, I don't know if you have kids. Do you? I don't know if you were ever a troubled teen. Were you? I have no idea if you are a teacher. Are you?

It makes me curious becuase several of us have said that we are parents. Some of us with behaviorally challenging kids. Some have said they grew up in high crime areas. Some of us are teachers, aides, substitutes and tutors for these challenging kids.

Now, I know Loren has no kids and is not a teacher. I know Derec has no kids and is not a teacher. I don't know about you.

But I am curious. Of all of those who think this kind of behavior from teh cop is correct, I haven't detected a single one for sure who actually deals with teens, especially difficult ones. With the sole exception of Trausti whop says he attended just such a school. But then, so did others of us who disagree with Trausti. So that's still open discussion.

But the others, I'm just trying to figure out what you are using as background to decide you know the only behavior that works on teens in the face of others who actually deal with teens saying something else works.

I say, I deal with teens and have some experience with troubled ones, I say that I've _been_ that teen, and I think other methods work because I have seen it work. Others say the same, and that they teach and tutor as well.

And you say, "no you're wrong that doesn't work."
And I am asking, what makes you feel justified in contradicting actual evidence?
What experience can you share that would make you believable?

You go to the point of saying we should not be raising our own kids or teaching in classrooms. And yet we are. Are you, also?

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Extreme pathological empathy is a debilitating disorder, turning an otherwise intelligent person in purely unemotional situations into a raging and irrational emoter. Letting your out-of-control "feelings" manage your cognition may persuade yourself, influence others, and pleasingly distort reality but how you feel about an outcome is irrelevant; irrationality always clouds judgment and distorts reasoning. In short, it makes a person stupid.

You should know by now that even if this is true, calling people stupid, or disordered by some kind of pathological mindset (and that you're somehow "above" any kind of pathological mindset) isn't going to convince them to change their perspective, so I'm not sure what you're attempting to do at all, other than antagonize people. As a result, no one has any reason to listen to you.

 

[funinspace]

Ooohhh....cool; background checks I have a son in college. He behaved generally well, much like myself, so no family background on dealing with such issues. I did get to watch a Jr. High kid get arrested at school, as he was a coke dealer. Didn't everyone have coke dealers in Jr. High School? Amazingly, it was just 2 cops and a simple arrest; no tasing, night stick beating, no SWAT team with assault weapons... I have been involved enough helping with church teenage groups years ago to understand full well, that the situation doesn't appear to be a binary problem and most probably shouldn't have escalated to the point of this absurd video of an out of control cop.

 

[maxparrish]

She refused to surrender the phone. That's what escalated the situation in the first place.

So then you write her up.... yes, yes, this has all been said before.
"hand me the phone." "No" "i'm sorry to hear that, I will write your slip for detention. It will be at the office after school. If you fail to show up, further consequences will be applied. Now, where were we... Can we solve this equation for y if we..."

Of course, in the context of this thread's crazed outrage at the police officer, this is irrelevant. He does not issue detention slips, it is the teacher or administrator that has that option. Rather, he was directed by the school to use force, if needed, to remove her.

Moreover, you are dodging the final reality; if she won't follow orders then force is needed. If she fails to show up for detention, you can suspend her. If she ignores that order to, and returns to school, what are you going to do?

Give her a pretty new slip with hearts on it?

- - - Updated - - -

Bottom line, NOTHING forces you to go nuclear if a teen says, "no" to you. You are not required to play their game. You are not required to lose your shit. If they disrupt your classroom a tiny bit, you are not required to disrupt it the rest of the way. Be the adult in the room.

You mean "being an adult" is to repeatedly beg for compliance and give up with a useless slip of paper - some "adult". I'm sorry, who is running the school?

PS - Oh wait, put her on "Double Secret Probation" and threaten that it will go on her permanent record.

 

[laughing dog]

Interesting how all the law and order posters who defend this police officer's actions are simultaneously unimpressed or ignore the actions of the police who fired him over his unacceptable behavior.

 

[Frikki]

Interesting how all the law and order posters who defend this police officer's actions are simultaneously unimpressed or ignore the actions of the police who fired him over his unacceptable behavior.

They know better obviously. Who´s the expert, the police or some IT guy in Nevada?

 

[maxparrish]

Extreme pathological empathy is a debilitating disorder, turning an otherwise intelligent person in purely unemotional situations into a raging and irrational emoter. Letting your out-of-control "feelings" manage your cognition may persuade yourself, influence others, and pleasingly distort reality but how you feel about an outcome is irrelevant; irrationality always clouds judgment and distorts reasoning. In short, it makes a person stupid.

You should know by now that even if this is true, calling people stupid, or disordered by some kind of pathological mindset (and that you're somehow "above" any kind of pathological mindset) isn't going to convince them to change their perspective, so I'm not sure what you're attempting to do at all, other than antagonize people. As a result, no one has any reason to listen to you.

You antagonize alcoholics with advice to attend 12-step programs, but it still means they should listen to you. And I never intend to call a person stupid, but I intend to point are 'acting stupid' in their comments. Every person who posts here is intelligent, some highly intelligent. But they often don't use it when confronted with highly partisan and emotionally loaded subjects.

We had a thread on an academic paper, to the effect that "Politics Makes You Stupid". And if you insist on being irrational, I'm going to point it out.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

You should know by now that even if this is true, calling people stupid, or disordered by some kind of pathological mindset (and that you're somehow "above" any kind of pathological mindset) isn't going to convince them to change their perspective, so I'm not sure what you're attempting to do at all, other than antagonize people. As a result, no one has any reason to listen to you.

You antagonize alcoholics with advice to attend 12-step programs, but it still means they should listen to you. And I never intend to call a person stupid, but I intend to point are 'acting stupid' in their comments. Every person who posts here is intelligent, some highly intelligent. But they often don't use it when confronted with highly partisan and emotionally loaded subjects.

We had a thread on an academic paper, to the effect that "Politics Makes You Stupid". And if you insist on being irrational, I'm going to point it out.

Why do you think it's going to make them reconsider their position?

 

[Rhea]

So then you write her up.... yes, yes, this has all been said before.
"hand me the phone." "No" "i'm sorry to hear that, I will write your slip for detention. It will be at the office after school. If you fail to show up, further consequences will be applied. Now, where were we... Can we solve this equation for y if we..."

Of course, in the context of this thread's crazed outrage at the police officer, this is irrelevant. He does not issue detention slips, it is the teacher or administrator that has that option. Rather, he was directed by the school to use force, if needed, to remove her.

He should never have been called. And he should have known when he got there that this was not an arrest issue. And if he couldn't do it without uncontrolled force, he should have called for backup.

Moreover, you are dodging the final reality; if she won't follow orders then force is needed. If she fails to show up for detention, you can suspend her. If she ignores that order to, and returns to school, what are you going to do?

Give her a pretty new slip with hearts on it?

Already asked, already answered. You have by then moved the confrontation OUT of the classroom, as you should have.
You think this has never happened before? No one else has ever dealt with it? Seriously?

Bottom line, NOTHING forces you to go nuclear if a teen says, "no" to you. You are not required to play their game. You are not required to lose your shit. If they disrupt your classroom a tiny bit, you are not required to disrupt it the rest of the way. Be the adult in the room.

You mean "being an adult" is to repeatedly beg for compliance and give up with a useless slip of paper - some "adult". I'm sorry, who is running the school?

PS - Oh wait, put her on "Double Secret Probation" and threaten that it will go on her permanent record.

You call it a useless slip of paper because that hyperbole fits your straw man.
But do you think this is the first time a kid has backtalked authority in a school? Seriously?
We've dealt with this shit before, successfully.

HAVE YOU?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

A school with no discipline is not an institution of learning, thus why have it at all? We've seen another poster upthread show what actually goes on.

What school with no discipline are you talking about?

The sort of schools the leftists on here are arguing for--where nothing is done about misbehavior.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't have it.

No one said you have it. We just want the link you used to watch it.

The only "full" video I'm aware of has already been posted, why should I repeat that?

The issue was the slow-motion video that I called foul on for containing a deceptive edit. You don't need the full video to see this, there's a discontinuity in the action.

 

[Rhea]

What school with no discipline are you talking about?

The sort of schools the leftists on here are arguing for--where nothing is done about misbehavior.

Oh, a straw Man.
Not a single person here has said "nothing" is done. That's your little caricature. Every single person has said something _different_ is done.
Straw men are so obvious.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I don't recall anyone keeping doing something when the teacher had told them to stop it.

I didn't go to an inner city school, though.

I went to a suburban parochial school. I remember it happening a lot, although it was usually the boys trying to sneak one past the teachers.

Sneak, yes. Plenty of sneaking. What I'm saying is that when they were called on misbehavior it stopped.

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.citypages.com/news/distrust-and-disorder-a-racial-equity-policy-summons-chaos-in-the-st-paul-schools-7394479

In my personal opinion, 2000 kids in a school is a terrible, terrible idea. Behavior is best when people know each other. If you have an already fraught population and then you put them also into a place of anonymity, you get the worst results. To me the economic model is crystal clear. You make the schools small enough to handle without a prison atmosphere. Small enough that the hall monitor know the names and faces of every student in the hall. No one can get away with anonymity.

These systems cram so many kids into a school that they create bad behavior and opportunity for bad behavior to grow, and then they pay for security to punish the bad behavior. Rather than creating an environment where they can keep it from growing and clearly identify the few culprits that are the real problems. They treat all the kids as if they are the worst kid, because they don't even know the names of the worst kids.

I am strongly against large school systems. Strongly. I think they are poison.

My high school had 2,400 although it was only engineered for 2,000. We didn't have the behavior problems you talk about. It's the students, not the school.

 

[Rhea]

I don't recall anyone keeping doing something when the teacher had told them to stop it.

I didn't go to an inner city school, though.

I went to a suburban parochial school. I remember it happening a lot, although it was usually the boys trying to sneak one past the teachers.

Sneak, yes. Plenty of sneaking. What I'm saying is that when they were called on misbehavior it stopped.

I used to do that all the time. Keep going after they said stop.
there ya go.

 

[Rhea]

I am strongly against large school systems. Strongly. I think they are poison.

My high school had 2,400 although it was only engineered for 2,000. We didn't have the behavior problems you talk about. It's the students, not the school.

Not always and not exclusively.

 

[arkirk]

I went to a suburban parochial school. I remember it happening a lot, although it was usually the boys trying to sneak one past the teachers.

Sneak, yes. Plenty of sneaking. What I'm saying is that when they were called on misbehavior it stopped.

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.citypages.com/news/distrust-and-disorder-a-racial-equity-policy-summons-chaos-in-the-st-paul-schools-7394479

In my personal opinion, 2000 kids in a school is a terrible, terrible idea. Behavior is best when people know each other. If you have an already fraught population and then you put them also into a place of anonymity, you get the worst results. To me the economic model is crystal clear. You make the schools small enough to handle without a prison atmosphere. Small enough that the hall monitor know the names and faces of every student in the hall. No one can get away with anonymity.

These systems cram so many kids into a school that they create bad behavior and opportunity for bad behavior to grow, and then they pay for security to punish the bad behavior. Rather than creating an environment where they can keep it from growing and clearly identify the few culprits that are the real problems. They treat all the kids as if they are the worst kid, because they don't even know the names of the worst kids.

I am strongly against large school systems. Strongly. I think they are poison.

My high school had 2,400 although it was only engineered for 2,000. We didn't have the behavior problems you talk about. It's the students, not the school.

So according to you, all the schools are the same. In minority and low performing schools, it is the low quality of the students. I see what you are saying....blaming the victim for the crime. You and Buford Pusser have a similar idea about what to do when things displease you. (reference..."walking tall."}

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Another non-Stepford "child" merely "asserting himself" after "having a bad day".

If only "Officer Slam" was on hand to show that little punk what's what!

Yup, that's why the SRO rather than the teacher.

 

[funinspace]

I went to a suburban parochial school. I remember it happening a lot, although it was usually the boys trying to sneak one past the teachers.

Sneak, yes. Plenty of sneaking. What I'm saying is that when they were called on misbehavior it stopped.

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.citypages.com/news/distrust-and-disorder-a-racial-equity-policy-summons-chaos-in-the-st-paul-schools-7394479

In my personal opinion, 2000 kids in a school is a terrible, terrible idea. Behavior is best when people know each other. If you have an already fraught population and then you put them also into a place of anonymity, you get the worst results. To me the economic model is crystal clear. You make the schools small enough to handle without a prison atmosphere. Small enough that the hall monitor know the names and faces of every student in the hall. No one can get away with anonymity.

These systems cram so many kids into a school that they create bad behavior and opportunity for bad behavior to grow, and then they pay for security to punish the bad behavior. Rather than creating an environment where they can keep it from growing and clearly identify the few culprits that are the real problems. They treat all the kids as if they are the worst kid, because they don't even know the names of the worst kids.

I am strongly against large school systems. Strongly. I think they are poison.

My high school had 2,400 although it was only engineered for 2,000. We didn't have the behavior problems you talk about. It's the students, not the school.

My HS was around 2,000, and we had plenty of behavior problems; including students not responding correctly when called upon it. Out of all my classes, I can only think of 1 where the teacher was pretty useless and it was closer to animal house than a learning environment. But it was mostly about a pretty lame teacher. What I didn't see was any police assaults on students who were mildly "out of control". Yet, "do nothing" wasn't on the administrative agenda either, just as no one here has suggested your strawman notion. And teaching still occurred and misbehaving students were generally still disciplined in various ways.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The sort of schools the leftists on here are arguing for--where nothing is done about misbehavior.

Oh, a straw Man.
Not a single person here has said "nothing" is done. That's your little caricature. Every single person has said something _different_ is done.
Straw men are so obvious.

Ok, do nothing effective.