Southernhybrid's Contradictions

[DLH]

This is an adaptation of an article originally written by former Interim President and current member of the Board of Directors Frank Zindler.

I'm excited! Let's have some fun kicking it around. Poke it with a stick to see what happens, huh? He asked for it, not unlike ourselves. I've got the text you pasted saved in a text editor and I'm going TO TRY to get to all of the alleged contradictions one at a time in this thread. Now, having said that, keep in mind I get bored pretty quick and I've been doing this for a long time. It doesn't do any good that I can see. I think Jehovah would agree that I would be better off just letting you go on thinking whatever you would like to think. It isn't like ideological fixation pays much attention to reason unless it can benefit from it.

It is a central dogma of all fundamental Christians that the Bible is without error.

Well, that will teach Frank not to trust the Christians with knowledge of the Bible. Might as well ask the cat.

Spoiler: The Fallible Bible

The Bible is fallible. The inspired word of Jehovah God is infallible, but the Bible itself is an imperfect translation of that. Thus, if you have a good reference Bible, at Mark 16:9-20, John 5:4, John 7:53-8:11, and 1 John 5:7, it will indicate that these verses did not appear in earlier manuscripts; they are spurious, added later.

The Bible also warns readers to test rather than just believe even the inspired expression (some translations read "spirit") because there are many false teachings or expressions (1 John 4:1-3).

At 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12, where the KJV uses the term "a strong delusion," other translations use "working of error" (ASV), "a misleading influence, a working of error" (AMP), and "fooled into believing a lie" (CEV). The question arises: what does this mean?

In a basic sense, it means God will allow them to believe whatever they want, which in this case, was a lie. This was similarly seen with King Ahab at 1 Kings 22:1-38 and 2 Chronicles 18. If one prefers the lie, there is nothing God can do to change that except hold you accountable for it. Note that other translations use the term "judged" rather than "damned" as the KJV does. Also, where most translations, including the KJV, use "found pleasure" in unrighteousness, the Greek literally means "having thought well." This implies that they have given it thought and intellectually strive to reach the conclusion they desire.

This is a fundamental problem with both believers and unbelievers. Believers want to adhere to the traditions of their denomination, while unbelievers often seek the worst possible alternative. What, then, is the meaning of the Bible? What is it really all about? It can be summed up simply as the vindication of Jehovah God's name through the ransom sacrifice of Christ Jesus.

If written by a perfect being, then it must not contradict itself, as a collection of books written by different men at different times over many centuries would be expected to contradict each other.

How do we know what something written by a perfect being would and wouldn't do? Well, because we are men of science! If that's so then we must test the contradictions.

The Sabbath Day
“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.” — Exodus 20:8

“One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.” — Romans 14:5
[/QUOTE]

Okay. Now we're talking! First of all, as always, much to my critic's delight, some definitions. On holy Oxford says "dedicated or consecrated to God or a religious purpose; sacred; (of a person) devoted to the service of God; morally and spiritually excellent; used in exclamations of surprise, alarm, or dismay." Like Grandma said - "Holy hell." Amos 9:2



I would say that in a basic sense it means sacred, belonging to God. It can be defined as dedicated to religious purpose but that may be more about religion being the God of many which is different than Jehovah being the God of few. For example, the Jehovah's Witnesses - is their God Jehovah or the Watchtower? I would say the latter, though who am I to say? They would say the Watchtower belongs to God, Jehovah, and again, who am I to say? The Watchtower isn't perfect but neither were ancient Israel or the first century Christians. You can't have sin and perfection (completeness) at the same time.

What were we talking about? Oh! Sabbath contradictions.

First, I will keep it simple. If that doesn't work you can press me on it. The first quote, Exodus, says to keep it holy. It was part of an arrangement. A temporary arrangement. Christ put an end to the sabbath day by fulfilling the law. It would no longer be necessary. Of course, the covenant was broken as well. That's something to consider. In the Romans quote Paul is talking about individuals choosing to continue observing the sabbath. There would have been no objection to this, but it wasn't legally binding by the law. In other words, you can do that but you don't have to.

For further reading I recommend the article I linked to above - Sabbath Day, and as an interesting aside at the bottom of the article it talks about entering into God's rest. I have always found that most fascinating. The seventh day of creation, you see, the day of rest, continues to this day.

 

[WAB]

Reminds me of me when I was off my meds and manic.

DLH, you are not going to accomplish anything here. I suggest going to CARM and starting threads in the Jehovah Witness forum. You'll get a lot more agreement, and a lot more serious involvement with your threads. P!us plenty of dissent, which is what you are after.

 

[DBT]

This is an adaptation of an article originally written by former Interim President and current member of the Board of Directors Frank Zindler.

I'm excited! Let's have some fun kicking it around. Poke it with a stick to see what happens, huh? He asked for it, not unlike ourselves. I've got the text you pasted saved in a text editor and I'm going TO TRY to get to all of the alleged contradictions one at a time in this thread. Now, having said that, keep in mind I get bored pretty quick and I've been doing this for a long time. It doesn't do any good that I can see. I think Jehovah would agree that I would be better off just letting you go on thinking whatever you would like to think. It isn't like ideological fixation pays much attention to reason unless it can benefit from it.

It is a central dogma of all fundamental Christians that the Bible is without error.

Well, that will teach Frank not to trust the Christians with knowledge of the Bible. Might as well ask the cat.

Spoiler: The Fallible Bible

The Bible is fallible. The inspired word of Jehovah God is infallible, but the Bible itself is an imperfect translation of that. Thus, if you have a good reference Bible, at Mark 16:9-20, John 5:4, John 7:53-8:11, and 1 John 5:7, it will indicate that these verses did not appear in earlier manuscripts; they are spurious, added later.

The Bible also warns readers to test rather than just believe even the inspired expression (some translations read "spirit") because there are many false teachings or expressions (1 John 4:1-3).

At 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12, where the KJV uses the term "a strong delusion," other translations use "working of error" (ASV), "a misleading influence, a working of error" (AMP), and "fooled into believing a lie" (CEV). The question arises: what does this mean?

In a basic sense, it means God will allow them to believe whatever they want, which in this case, was a lie. This was similarly seen with King Ahab at 1 Kings 22:1-38 and 2 Chronicles 18. If one prefers the lie, there is nothing God can do to change that except hold you accountable for it. Note that other translations use the term "judged" rather than "damned" as the KJV does. Also, where most translations, including the KJV, use "found pleasure" in unrighteousness, the Greek literally means "having thought well." This implies that they have given it thought and intellectually strive to reach the conclusion they desire.

This is a fundamental problem with both believers and unbelievers. Believers want to adhere to the traditions of their denomination, while unbelievers often seek the worst possible alternative. What, then, is the meaning of the Bible? What is it really all about? It can be summed up simply as the vindication of Jehovah God's name through the ransom sacrifice of Christ Jesus.

If written by a perfect being, then it must not contradict itself, as a collection of books written by different men at different times over many centuries would be expected to contradict each other.

How do we know what something written by a perfect being would and wouldn't do? Well, because we are men of science! If that's so then we must test the contradictions.

The Sabbath Day
“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.” — Exodus 20:8

“One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.” — Romans 14:5

Okay. Now we're talking! First of all, as always, much to my critic's delight, some definitions. On holy Oxford says "dedicated or consecrated to God or a religious purpose; sacred; (of a person) devoted to the service of God; morally and spiritually excellent; used in exclamations of surprise, alarm, or dismay." Like Grandma said - "Holy hell." Amos 9:2



I would say that in a basic sense it means sacred, belonging to God. It can be defined as dedicated to religious purpose but that may be more about religion being the God of many which is different than Jehovah being the God of few. For example, the Jehovah's Witnesses - is their God Jehovah or the Watchtower? I would say the latter, though who am I to say? They would say the Watchtower belongs to God, Jehovah, and again, who am I to say? The Watchtower isn't perfect but neither were ancient Israel or the first century Christians. You can't have sin and perfection (completeness) at the same time.

What were we talking about? Oh! Sabbath contradictions.

First, I will keep it simple. If that doesn't work you can press me on it. The first quote, Exodus, says to keep it holy. It was part of an arrangement. A temporary arrangement. Christ put an end to the sabbath day by fulfilling the law. It would no longer be necessary. Of course, the covenant was broken as well. That's something to consider. In the Romans quote Paul is talking about individuals choosing to continue observing the sabbath. There would have been no objection to this, but it wasn't legally binding by the law. In other words, you can do that but you don't have to.

For further reading I recommend the article I linked to above - Sabbath Day, and as an interesting aside at the bottom of the article it talks about entering into God's rest. I have always found that most fascinating. The seventh day of creation, you see, the day of rest, continues to this day.
[/QUOTE]

The reported words of Christ have him say that he had not come to abolish the law or the prophets but to fulfill.

To fulfil does not mean abolish. If it did, 'think not that I have come to abolish" is a lie.

"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."


"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

 

[DLH]

The reported words of Christ have him say that he had not come to abolish the law or the prophets but to fulfill.

To fulfil does not mean abolish. If it did, 'think not that I have come to abolish" is a lie.

"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."


"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

Yes, that's pretty much what I said. He fulfilled the law; he didn't abolish it. Like if you have a debt when you pay the debt in full. Is that to destroy, abolish or fulfill your obligation?

I can see why there's some confusion. Is abolish or destroy the better translation?

Oxford: abolish - formally put an end to (a system, practice, or institution):
Oxford: - put an end to the existence of (something) by damaging or attacking it:
Oxford: fulfill - bring to completion or reality; achieve or realize (something desired, promised, or predicted):

Matthew 5:17 Compare translations.

 

[DLH]

Reminds me of me when I was off my meds and manic.

Oxford: irony - the expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect: a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often amusing as a result: a literary technique, originally used in Greek tragedy, by which the full significance of a character's words or actions are clear to the audience or reader although unknown to the character.

You don't see the irony because you don't want others to see it, because you are blind to it or because it doesn't benefit you to see it?

DLH, you are not going to accomplish anything here. I suggest going to CARM and starting threads in the Jehovah Witness forum. You'll get a lot more agreement, and a lot more serious involvement with your threads. P!us plenty of dissent, which is what you are after.

Oxford: democracy - a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives: control of an organization or group by the majority of its members: the practice or principles of social equality.

So, there was this politician. Everyone against him said that he was going to destroy democracy, he was against social equality. No wonder they fought so fiercely against him! No wonder they called him racist. Many of the people who really had nothing against the man wanted to get rid of him just because they were tired of all the fighting. But then they began to see that the people who were against him were really the ones who were destroying democracy and equality. Because his opposition was so fiercely determined not to allow this man to be a candidate, a choice in the elections.

Oh! Poor baby! the opposition said. And you know, the guy was a bit of a dick at times. Not entirely likeable, unlike myself.

Here and here I suggest that sudden fierce opposition to my animated avatar might have been politically or ideologically motivated.

Here, here and here you happily announce that I was a Holocaust denier - you know, where the Nazis murdered thousands of Jews, like the authors of my favorite history of the Jews in which millions of Jews were murdered, which you yourself fircely deny. Also murdering Jehovah's Witnesses, like the ones criticized at CARM, which above you tell me to go to post instead of here, and finally also murdering homosexuals which I happen to also be. All of which @pood is always more than happy to agree with.

And then there's this, where you seem to be ranting about another Holocaust denier, homophobic, former friend of yours who was a fire & brimstone Calvinist writing vindictive just-barely competent doggerel railing against everything from gays to women to Islam, etc., etc.

Mind you, The Pennsylvania Review attracts not only prestigious poets of all political and religious varieties, it also attracts many asshats, like a certain Holocaust denier who shall go unmentioned, who uses the word "fags" a great deal in his shitty poems, and a certain Fire & Brimstone Calvinist, a former friend of mine from the Sphere, who also writes vindictive and just-barely competent doggerel railing against everything from gays to women to Islam, etc, etc.

/derail & rant (yes) over.

So. What are you and @pood and @steve_bank so afraid - so fiercely determined to oppose? And why?

 

[pood]

So. What are you and @pood and @steve_bank so afraid - so fiercely determined to oppose? And why?

Here you go again with the Oxford dictionary.

You’re the one who is afraid — scared shitless that you’ve sunk more than 30 years of your life into a total fantasy — which you have.

Finally, this is a DISCUSSION BOARD — we are pointing out the inanities you espouse because we are here to DISCUSS this very kind of thing. What did you expect a bunch of atheists and skeptics to do, strew digital roses at your feet and those of your silly Jay Hovah, and bow before you? Finally, you love that you are getting feedback — you are here desperately craving attention. You certainly don’t get any at your own board.

 

[DLH]

Finally, this is a DISCUSSION BOARD — we are pointing out the inanities you espouse because we are here to DISCUSS this very kind of thing. What did you expect a bunch of atheists and skeptics to do, strew digital roses at your feet and those of your silly Jay Hovah, and bow before you?

I, uh, I had to put some members of the public forum on ignore for a few days. Not, as you might expect, because I couldn't take the criticism but - heh - because apparently not unlike yourself I enjoy it. Too much, pood?

Finally, you love that you are getting feedback — you are here desperately craving attention. You certainly don’t get any at your own board.

NOW LOOK!

[calms himself; timid weak laugh] My own board wasn't meant to be used. It's merely a place for me to store old DATA [glances menacingly at @steve_bank ] to polish and put on my shelf, er, website.

[sighs]

But I got bored with that and came here to play with you guys. And now [hurt expression on his delicate facial features] you would have me go away?

Bereft of your drama queen what would you do?!

Wait for the next one in your skeptic tank of toothless sharks? Careful mortal, I may do as you so desperately wish and take up my stethoscope and walk, see if I don't.

You need me! For without me you would have only yourselves to slap each other's back. Those other mean old Christians and Trump supporters aren't as talented and smart as me!

Don't make me go away! The other place sent me away! Coliseum! Lion's Den! They changed my avatar without my knowledge or consent to this!




Oh, Dear!

I shouldn't have said anything! What have I done?!

Look! It's been over 18 years since I was out in open sunlight. I only leave the house if it's raining or I need milk. You're like my bad doll, Mr. Livingston. He's a bad doll! Bad doll! Not like my other dolls.Thanks for asking, though.



See? This is too much fun. Don't tempt me.Get behind me, pood! We can have serious meaningful discussions on the subject of religion or we can do this. Which would you prefer?

 

[DBT]

The reported words of Christ have him say that he had not come to abolish the law or the prophets but to fulfill.

To fulfil does not mean abolish. If it did, 'think not that I have come to abolish" is a lie.

"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."


"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

Yes, that's pretty much what I said. He fulfilled the law; he didn't abolish it. Like if you have a debt when you pay the debt in full. Is that to destroy, abolish or fulfill your obligation?

I can see why there's some confusion. Is abolish or destroy the better translation?

Oxford: abolish - formally put an end to (a system, practice, or institution):
Oxford: - put an end to the existence of (something) by damaging or attacking it:
Oxford: fulfill - bring to completion or reality; achieve or realize (something desired, promised, or predicted):

Matthew 5:17 Compare translations.

But what you said was, ''Christ put an end to the sabbath day by fulfilling the law. It would no longer be necessary. Of course, the covenant was broken as well,'' so how does that relate to; ''For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled?''

Keep in mind that working on the Sabbath was a serious offence. So serious that a death penalty was imposed for a man gathering sticks for firewood on the Sabbath.

Then there is ''till all be fulfilled'' to be considered. Was ''all fulfilled'' achieved by the sacrifice of Jesus?

The promise of a return in power and glory has not been fulfilled.

The world has not changed, it's business as usual, so the promise of justice has not been fulfilled.

 

[DLH]

But what you said was, ''Christ put an end to the sabbath day by fulfilling the law. It would no longer be necessary. Of course, the covenant was broken as well,'' so how does that relate to; ''For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled?''

The law was fulfilled. Heaven and earth haven't passed, nor one jot yada, yada, so far, all has been fulfilled.

Keep in mind that working on the Sabbath was a serious offence. So serious that a death penalty was imposed for a man gathering sticks for firewood on the Sabbath.

True, but if a baby was born 8 days later it had to be circumcised no matter what day that fell on. If your neighbor's ass fell in a ditch, you could get it out. When you realized that a young girl was pregnant you were to have her put to death, but when Joseph didn't do that with Mary, he did nothing wrong, when Rehab lied, she was still counted as righteous, Peter denied Christ etc.

They had the saying, the heart of the law. Not being righteous over-much, etc. David sent Uriah off to certain death so he could have it off with Uriah's wife, but they were spared.

Then there is ''till all be fulfilled'' to be considered. Was ''all fulfilled'' achieved by the sacrifice of Jesus?

Just the law. You've read my explanation - the meaning of the Bible? Israel, the Law, the Messiah, all a part of a plan.

The promise of a return in power and glory has not been fulfilled.

The world has not changed, it's business as usual, so the promise of justice has not been fulfilled.

Not yet, but Jesus fulfilling the Law has.

 

[DLH]

The Permanence of Earth​

“… the earth abideth for ever.” — Ecclesiastes 1:4

“… the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” — 2 Peter 3:10

Heaven and earth have multiple meanings like they had then. 2 Peter 3:5 is a literal heavens and earth compared with the symbolic he mentions in verse 7, for example. The heavens and earth will, according to the Bible, last forever, in a literal sense, but they will pass away in a figurative sense when Satan and his angels have been removed from heaven and earth along with sin, death, sinful man - the world. In a sense a New Heavens and Earth.

Some examples of the various uses: Job 38:4-6,13, 14; Psalm.103:11; Isaiah 55:9; 66:1; Matthew 5:35; Acts 7:49; Revelation 5:3; Psalm 78:69; 119:90; Haggai 2:21; Hebrews 12:26; 2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 20:11; 21:1; Psalm 96:1; Isaiah 57:20; James 1:6; Jude 1:13; Revelation 12:16; 20:11; 21:1.

Seeing God​

“… I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” — Genesis 32:30

“No man hath seen God at any time…”– John 1:18

Who has seen God and what does it mean to see God 'face to face?'

Did Abraham? Genesis 18:1-3 Note that Jehovah god is mistaken for one of the three men. Was God a man or an angel in the form of a man who represented God? In effect God, a man, and an angel representing God. Angel means messenger.

Did Moses? Numbers 12:8 - Note that it is an appearance of God that represents God to Moses.

Did Jacob? Genesis 32:30 - Note Hosea 12:2-4 points out that it was an angel who represented God that grappled with Jacob.

Did Manoah and his wife? Judges 13:2-22 - Note that the angel of Jehovah God is called Jehovah God.

Did Gideon? Judges 6:11-23 - Later Jehovah's angel came and sat under the big tree that was in Ophrah, which belonged to Joash the Abiezrite, while Gideon his son was beating out wheat in the winepress so as to get it quickly out of the sight of Midian. Then Jehovah's angel appeared to him and said to him: "Jehovah is with you, you valiant, mighty one." At this Gideon said to him: "Excuse me, my lord, but if Jehovah is with us, then why has all this come upon us, and where are all his wonderful acts that our fathers related to us, saying, 'Was it not out of Egypt that Jehovah brought us up?' And now Jehovah has deserted us, and he gives us into the palm of Midian." Upon that Jehovah faced him and said: "Go in this power of yours, and you will certainly save Israel out of Midian's palm. Do I not send you?" In turn he said to him: "Excuse me, Jehovah. With what shall I save Israel? Look! My thousand is the least in Manasseh, and I am the smallest in my father's house." But Jehovah said to him: "Because I shall prove to be with you, and you will certainly strike down Midian as if one man."

At this he said to him: "If, now, I have found favor in your eyes, you must also perform a sign for me that you are the one speaking with me. Do not, please, move away from here until I come to you and I have brought out my gift and set it before you." Accordingly he said: "I, for my part, shall keep sitting here until you return." And Gideon went in and proceeded to make ready a kid of the goats and an ephah of flour as unfermented cakes. The meat he put in the basket, and the broth he put in the cooking pot, after which he brought it out to him under the big tree and served it.

The angel of the [true] God now said to him: "Take the meat and the unfermented cakes and set them on the big rock there, and pour out the broth." At that he did so. Then Jehovah's angel thrust out the tip of the staff that was in his hand and touched the meat and the unfermented cakes, and fire began to ascend out of the rock and to consume the meat and the unfermented cakes. As for Jehovah's angel, he vanished from his sight. Consequently Gideon realized that it was Jehovah's angel.

At once Gideon said: "Alas, Sovereign Lord Jehovah, for the reason that I have seen Jehovah's angel face to face!" But Jehovah said to him: "Peace be yours. Do not fear. You will not die." So Gideon built an altar there to Jehovah, and it continues to be called Jehovah-shalom down to this day. It is yet in Ophrah of the Abiezrites.

No man has seen God but a few have seen representations of him. The angels are, in a sense, at least to the people they deal with, the same as God. They can be referred to as God, Jehovah, angel, Jehovah's angel, God's angel or men because they are, in some sense, all of those things.

When Jesus, Michael (Jesus' pre-human heavenly form), the prophets or the disciples performed tasks for Jehovah they did it through the holy spirit, Jehovah's active force. They didn't heal, or guide the Jews from Israel, etc. of their own accord.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Seems to me you people put that order in for an extra large pizza 1995 years ago. And the folks who placed the original order were assured that the pizza was just about to come out of the oven. And in fact they told each other to put everything on hold, including getting married, because that pizza was about to come out. And ever since then, there's a new bunch of folks every single year who think they have the original receipt and they're about to get that pizza. And they even think there are special signs about when that pizza's coming their way. And they'll tell you that you are now living in the magical time when that pizza's coming. And some of you can even smell it.
Seems to me it's time to admit that there aint no pizza, there never was no pizza, and the guy who sold those folks a pizza back in 30 CE -- let's call him Pizza Joe -- ran off with their money.
Sheesh. Find a more dependable pizza joint. The rest of us have.

 

[DBT]

But what you said was, ''Christ put an end to the sabbath day by fulfilling the law. It would no longer be necessary. Of course, the covenant was broken as well,'' so how does that relate to; ''For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled?''

The law was fulfilled. Heaven and earth haven't passed, nor one jot yada, yada, so far, all has been fulfilled.

Keep in mind that working on the Sabbath was a serious offence. So serious that a death penalty was imposed for a man gathering sticks for firewood on the Sabbath.

True, but if a baby was born 8 days later it had to be circumcised no matter what day that fell on. If your neighbor's ass fell in a ditch, you could get it out. When you realized that a young girl was pregnant you were to have her put to death, but when Joseph didn't do that with Mary, he did nothing wrong, when Rehab lied, she was still counted as righteous, Peter denied Christ etc.

They had the saying, the heart of the law. Not being righteous over-much, etc. David sent Uriah off to certain death so he could have it off with Uriah but David and Uriah's wife, were spared.

Then there is ''till all be fulfilled'' to be considered. Was ''all fulfilled'' achieved by the sacrifice of Jesus?

Just the law. You've read my explanation - the meaning of the Bible? Israel, the Law, the Messiah, all a part of a plan.

The promise of a return in power and glory has not been fulfilled.

The world has not changed, it's business as usual, so the promise of justice has not been fulfilled.

Not yet, but Jesus fulfilling the Law has.

Again, if fulfilling the law abolishes the law, 'think not that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets' is a lie.

It can't be both.

Christians claim that Jesus fulfilled Messianic prophesy (Judaism disagrees), thereby the law no longer applies, but this still contradicts 'think not that I have come to abolish the law.'

 

[DLH]

Seems to me you people put that order in for an extra large pizza 1995 years ago.

Well, I, uh - WHAT?!

Actually, about 6,000. The end times began when Adam and Eve first conceived. Since Jehovah has existed without beginning, before time even existed, and a thousand years is like a day to him, it's been almost a week.

And the folks who placed the original order were assured that the pizza was just about to come out of the oven.

Oh, I see. I get the picture.

And in fact they told each other to put everything on hold, including getting married, because that pizza was about to come out. And ever since then, there's a new bunch of folks every single year who think they have the original receipt and they're about to get that pizza. And they even think there are special signs about when that pizza's coming their way. And they'll tell you that you are now living in the magical time when that pizza's coming. And some of you can even smell it.

Are you going to go on?

Seems to me it's time to admit that there aint no pizza, there never was no pizza, and the guy who sold those folks a pizza back in 30 CE -- let's call him Pizza Joe -- ran off with their money.
Sheesh. Find a more dependable pizza joint. The rest of us have.

Oh, yeah? What joint have you been using?

 

[ideologyhunter]

Did your pizza arrive?

 

[DLH]

Again, if fulfilling the law abolishes the law, 'think not that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets' is a lie.

It can't be both.

It isn't both, it's fulfilled and so complete. Ended. Not abolished or destroyed. Paid.

Christians claim that Jesus fulfilled Messianic prophesy (Judaism disagrees), thereby the law no longer applies, but this still contradicts 'think not that I have come to abolish the law.'

He didn't come to abolish the law, he came to fulfill it, and Judaism is an apostate religion formed after the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem in 70 CE. So, they can't have documentation of any Messiah after that. The records or the chronologies were destroyed. So, who is their Messiah?

 

[DLH]

Did your pizza arrive?

We, uh - ahem - we didn't order one. Literally.

 

[pood]

Still waiting for the Jesus pizza.

 

[ideologyhunter]

See, I had pizza tonight. From Fast Eddie's. Large, plain cheese.
My pizza was real.

 

[pood]

Two thousand years is a long wait for pizza ordered to go.

 

[DLH]

See, I had pizza tonight. From Fast Eddie's. Large, plain cheese.
My pizza was real.

Oh, yeah?!

I had sloppy Joes.
It was real too.

Little did I know, mister, that when I woke up on this very morning that you, sir, would take my sorry ass to . . . . Lunch Lady Land!

Hit it!