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Split: Sanders impact on Abortion Laws
- Thread starter TomC
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Jarhyn
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Your loss. Next time you bitch about and ask such questions, I am just going to keep quoting this post, knowing your pride and fee fees are too hurt to actually read it.
I damn sure don't believe that, but I do recognize that it's one link in a colossal chain of cause and effect governed by our space-time continuum.
TomC
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I voted for Clinton. That's the best I could do to help prevent Trump appointing the SCOTUS judges that he did.
Unfortunately, not enough people voted for her to prevent his taking office.
Yeah, there are people who preferred Trump not take control of SCOTUS, but didn't vote to prevent it.
Tom
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TomC
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I didn't successfully prevent Trump from appointing SCOTUS justices.
But I helped.
People who didn't vote for Clinton helped Trump. Doesn't matter why, or how, if an eligible voter chose anything other than voting for Clinton they helped Trump do what he did. Not voting was a vote for Trump. Voting third party was a vote for Trump. Writing in Sanders was a vote for Trump.
You might not like that, but it's the reality.
Tom
untermensche
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You tried to help but you didn't help prevent anything.
TomC
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As opposed to the Sanders supporters who actually did help Trump win, by voting for him. However indirectly, if you didn't vote for Clinton you voted for Trump and the current SCOTUS judges.
Tom
Jarhyn
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Except that was not sanders making the decision to vote for trump. Quite pointedly he campaigned FOR Clinton after losing the primary. Thus the decision of Sanders supporters who voted for trump was not his fault in any way shape size or form.
It is instead the fault of whoever DID actually engage in behavior that WOULD drive people away from Clinton.
The only persons who did any of that though are Hillary, Trump, the biased news media, and probably Putin. So if you want to blame people, blame the people who played fuck-fuck games in the middle of an election
untermensche
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Insane.
Bernie tirelessly campaigned for Hillary and told supporters to vote for her.
Hillary losing is to blame. Don't try to blame Bernie supporters.
TomC
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untermensche
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My political teacher is Noam Chomsky.
So figure it out.
What was his position? (Hint: Lesser of Two Evil voting in swing states)
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Just pointing out that TomC's post made no claims about Sanders but about those who did not vote for Clinton, whether the voted for Trump, for third party voters, abstained from voting, etc. That is not on Sanders, actually.
Did Sanders engage in behavior that drove voters away from Clinton? One could argue that he did, by running against her and by continuing to campaign on his own behalf. Yes, he did jump in to support Clinton and urged his supporters to vote for Clinton but not entirely effectively. Which to my way of thinking is a mark against his leadership. Just as a lot of Trump supporters are not so much supporting Trump per se but what he represents to THEM, I think that (some) Sanders' supporters were not supporting Sanders per se so much as what he represented to them. And for some of them, it was that he was a likeable, old white man, very cranky grandpa-ish. I write this because I know some of Sanders' supporters who basically would tell me he was the only candidate who (fill in the blank) and when I'd point out other candidates, most often Warren (my personal choice) held the same position or in some cases, a more rigorous one than Sanders, they simply poo poo'd the notion--even when it was easy to document that what I said was true. Some said they didn't trust any candidate who had been more conservative in the past and had become more liberal later. Personally, I like someone who can grow through their experiences. I think that unconsciously, they were just more comfortable with a white man than a woman. I wish that were not so but..there it is. Oh, they'd disagree with me, but given a list of ANY female candidate, there's always a reason that she doesn't measure up. And hey, they were right: it took an old white man to defeat Trump after all....
untermensche
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Jump in?
You mean after he narrowly lost?
It wasn't effective because people who support a New Deal Democrat like Bernie don't like corrupted corporate supporting authoritarians like Hillary.
Despite the sensible advice from people like Chomsky about least evil voting.
TomC
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untermensche
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It is: If I live in a swing state I voted for Hillary. If I don't there is no chance I would vote for her.
Address the topic, don’t attack your fellow posters.
If you’re insulting other members of the community, then you are not discussing the topic.
These are the Terms of Use. Follow them.
If you’re insulting other members of the community, then you are not discussing the topic.
These are the Terms of Use. Follow them.
Jarhyn
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I campaigned for Bernie. I primaried for Warren. I voted for Biden.
I'm pretty sure that's the right way to do it, in order of priorities and support.
I do know for a fact that I heard the words "ain't no woman can be president" in the 2016 cycle. I don't think he would say the same after what happened following the George Floyd disasters. You are right in that it does impact some fools.
There are a number of women I would love to see president. Heck, run and I would vote for you. Run for Senate first though. Or something else big. I would vote for you there too. There's a lot we don't agree on, but the things we don't agree on, heck, we can fight over those.
But Hillary "must be president!!!!!" Clinton was one of the hardest votes I've ever put in the box.
untermensche
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It depends.
If you lived in a swing state you had to practice 'lesser of two evil' voting. That still makes Biden an evil.
If you don't live in a swing state then there is no reason to vote for that horrible candidate, or a worse candidate like Hillary.
If you lived in a swing state you had to practice 'lesser of two evil' voting. That still makes Biden an evil.
If you don't live in a swing state then there is no reason to vote for that horrible candidate, or a worse candidate like Hillary.
Jarhyn
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The reason why non-swing-state voters still need to do the needful is that doing so is exactly the reason it is not a "swing state" in general.
It does not matter that the ball is next to the hole, a bare millimeter from an equilibrium point to tip it in. The work still needs to be done.