Split: Sanders impact on Abortion Laws

[untermensche]

Bill Clinton turned the Democratic party into Republican-lite.

Not by himself, but yeah.
Slick Willy pulled the Democrats out of the weeds that Jimmy "The Christian" Carter left them in back in 80.

No.

Clinton abandoned the working man and sided with corporate power. It has been downhill ever since for working people.

Here's one. They aren't supported by the American people as a whole. Like it or not, Sanders is way to the left of the American people as a whole.

People being stupid does not make Bernie's policies bad.

You have no real criticism.

A realist is somebody who actually understands the reality. Indulging oneself in sturmandrang, without actually doing anything, is just self indulgence.
Tom

So the evils of authoritarianism is not reality?

 

[untermensche]

What Bernie policy are you opposed to?

So, we can't just end military defense spending, for one.

Bernie wanted to reduce military spending, not eliminate it, so we can spend on things that are useful.

That's it? Your love of empire?

 

[Jarhyn]

What Bernie policy are you opposed to?

So, we can't just end military defense spending, for one.

Bernie wanted to reduce military spending, not eliminate it, so we can spend on things that are useful.

That's it? Your love of empire?

I point back at Rhea. In a hostile world with active powers attempting to openly attack each other, we need to be judicious of how we actually accomplish those goals.

You really do like biting the hand.

 

[TomC]

No.

Clinton abandoned the working man and sided with corporate power. It has been downhill ever since for working people.

That's exactly what I said, in the part of my post you clipped out. But you still started your response with "No".

You don't understand me, but I understand you.
Tom

 

[untermensche]

Bernie wanted to reduce military spending, not eliminate it, so we can spend on things that are useful.

That's it? Your love of empire?

I point back at Rhea. In a hostile world with active powers attempting to openly attack each other, we need to be judicious of how we actually accomplish those goals.

You really do like biting the hand.

He can't do anything unilaterally but the US has nukes. We have all the defense we need.

The US is also a member of the UN and that is where problems between nations are addressed.

Supporting the empire is not criticism of Bernie.

 

[untermensche]

No.

Clinton abandoned the working man and sided with corporate power. It has been downhill ever since for working people.

That's exactly what I said, in the part of my post you clipped out. But you still started your response with "No".

You don't understand me, but I understand you.
Tom

Then we agree Hillary was a terrible candidate.

 

[TomC]

People being stupid does not make Bernie's policies bad.

You have no real criticism.

Your inability to read would be remarkable, if it weren't so common amongst political extremists.

I don't think that Sanders platform is bad at all. I've said that over and over!

Unfeasible, without a hardened battle axe of a politician(like Godzillary) pushing them and selling them and generally getting things done. And it won't be perfect, she's a master negotiator, so she won't make everybody happy.

But better than Obama instituting Republican Healthcare reform, and still having to make concessions for "bipartisanship".

I strongly supported Obama, but he was a big disappointment. With the clarity of hindsight, I wish Hillary had been the Democratic nominee in 2008. With Obama as VP, ready to take over in 2016.
Oh well...
Tom

 

[TomC]

No.

Clinton abandoned the working man and sided with corporate power. It has been downhill ever since for working people.

That's exactly what I said, in the part of my post you clipped out. But you still started your response with "No".

You don't understand me, but I understand you.
Tom

Then we agree Hillary was a terrible candidate.

Your ability to publicly post things that are demonstrably false is kinda weird.
It's why I don't much bother with political extremists like you.
Tom

 

[untermensche]

Then we agree Hillary was a terrible candidate.

Your ability to publicly post things that are demonstrably false is kinda weird.
It's why I don't much bother with political extremists like you.
Tom

I am a centrist if you include the entire civilized world. You are the right wing extremist in support of empire and those who wish to maintain it.

 

[TomC]

Then we agree Hillary was a terrible candidate.

Your ability to publicly post things that are demonstrably false is kinda weird.
It's why I don't much bother with political extremists like you.
Tom

I am a centrist if you include the entire civilized world. You are the right wing extremist in support of empire and those who wish to maintain it.

Your ability to post things, publicly, that are demonstrably false is kinda weird.
But I do understand that I live in a country dominated by political extremists.
Tom

 

[untermensche]

I am a centrist if you include the entire civilized world. You are the right wing extremist in support of empire and those who wish to maintain it.

Your ability to post things, publicly, that are demonstrably false is kinda weird.
But I do understand that I live in a country dominated by political extremists.
Tom

Your empty claims are not interesting.

It is only in the US where Bernie is thought of as radical.

Uneducated Americans are unaware of this though.

 

[TomC]

I am a centrist if you include the entire civilized world. You are the right wing extremist in support of empire and those who wish to maintain it.

Your ability to post things, publicly, that are demonstrably false is kinda weird.
But I do understand that I live in a country dominated by political extremists.
Tom

Your empty claims are not interesting.

It is only in the US where Bernie is radical.

Uneducated Americans are unaware of this though.

Nevertheless, it's only in the U.S. that Sanders is on a ballot.

Fact remains, you're good at posting demonstrably false things. You kinda remind me of the most hardened Trumpistas.
Tom

ETA ~ Lots of people have told me that I despise Trump because I hate America. You resemble them very stongly. ~

 

[untermensche]

Your empty claims are not interesting.

It is only in the US where Bernie is radical.

Uneducated Americans are unaware of this though.

Nevertheless, it's only in the U.S. that Sanders is on a ballot.

Fact remains, you're good at posting demonstrably false things. You kinda remind me of the most hardened Trumpistas.
Tom

ETA ~ Lots of people have told me that I despise Trump because I hate America. You resemble them very stongly. ~

Yeah but my mind is not confined to the general ignorance I find everywhere in the US.

Especially among Hillary supporters.

 

[Toni]

Your empty claims are not interesting.

It is only in the US where Bernie is radical.

Uneducated Americans are unaware of this though.

Nevertheless, it's only in the U.S. that Sanders is on a ballot.

Fact remains, you're good at posting demonstrably false things. You kinda remind me of the most hardened Trumpistas.
Tom

ETA ~ Lots of people have told me that I despise Trump because I hate America. You resemble them very stongly. ~

Yeah but my mind is not confined to the general ignorance I find everywhere in the US.

Especially among Hillary supporters.

Heh.

 

[untermensche]

Yeah but my mind is not confined to the general ignorance I find everywhere in the US.

Especially among Hillary supporters.

Heh.

I have an advantage. I am not special.

But my teacher was and still is Chomsky.

If people would read and listen to him they might understand too.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You don't care about democracy.

You don't care if the process is undemocratic.

Because Hillary won.

Then lost to Trump in an undemocratic process.

Your mind reading skills aren't impressive.
Yes, I believe that Clinton was far more able to accomplish Sanders' goals than Sanders. That's why I supported her.

But as for democracy, I'm just being a realist. Americans, as a whole, like to talk about democracy. But not implement it. This goes all the way back to the Founding Fathers. When push comes to shove, they consistently choose whatever gets them what they want. If democracy gets in the way they just ignore it.

Kinda like you're doing, refusing to acknowledge that Clinton got the most votes in the primaries.
Tom

Bill Clinton turned the Democratic party into Republican-lite.

Hillary would have made things worse.

I have yet to hear one reasonable criticism of Bernie's policies.

They were not Hillary's corporate supporting policies.

A realist is somebody who sees the many problems inherent to authoritarian systems and is appalled by them and totally opposed to them and not an apologist for them.

Just because you are left of the Democrats doesn't mean that the Democrats are wrong. You're way to the left of the average person.

 

[TomC]

Let's go back to the OP for just a moment.

Is there anybody on this thread who believes that Sanders, and his supporters, helped prevent Trump from deciding on the SCOTUS judges who shape the future? Including reproductive laws?

Anybody who thinks that Sanders helped prevent Trump choosing judges like Gorsuch, please raise your hand.
Tom

 

[Jarhyn]

Let's go back to the OP for just a moment.

Is there anybody on this thread who believes that Sanders, and his supporters, helped prevent Trump from deciding on the SCOTUS judges who shape the future? Including reproductive laws?

Anybody who thinks that Sanders helped prevent Trump choosing judges like Gorsuch, please raise your hand.
Tom

I think your question is badly formed, and loaded with something that stinks worse than what I expel from my ass.

Sanders was largely agnostic to trump doing any of that. It is the interaction between Sanders and Clinton, mostly Clinton's side, that created that shit show. Sanders absolutely helped prevent those things, particularly by campaigning for Hillary, even after her hostility to his campaign.

Russian interests leveraged the bad behavior Hillary directed at Sanders to foment an effective schism.

All kinds of behavior could have avoided it, though much of the behavior that did happen still was not "bad" behavior. Of the behavior that WAS bad, I can point to debates being cancelled (Clinton), voter rolls being withheld (Clinton), legal challenges for bringing up valid security concerns (Clinton), cancelling debates (Clinton), and regularly tarring sanders supporters as "nasty" (Clinton).

I don't really think I would be cut out for politics. The first time someone played politics like that at ME, shitting on what would otherwise be friendly and democratic, I'd reflect their revocation of friendliness into a revocation of health, and let us BOTH be sure losers.

 

[TomC]

I think your question is badly formed, and loaded with something that stinks worse than what I expel from my ass.

I've experienced enough of your posts to stop at that point.

Have a nice day.
Tom

 

[untermensche]

Bill Clinton turned the Democratic party into Republican-lite.

Hillary would have made things worse.

I have yet to hear one reasonable criticism of Bernie's policies.

They were not Hillary's corporate supporting policies.

A realist is somebody who sees the many problems inherent to authoritarian systems and is appalled by them and totally opposed to them and not an apologist for them.

Just because you are left of the Democrats doesn't mean that the Democrats are wrong. You're way to the left of the average person.

In terms of the entire civilized world I am in the center and you are a right winger.

My scope extends beyond the insane US political nightmare.