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Stand Your Ground has another victim

The dead guy was backing up when he was shot so I think that we can safely say that he was not going to kick the original assailant.
Well the dead guy is the original assailant. So, yes, we can safely say that he was not going to kick himself.
I watched the video again. It seems he only backed away a step or two when the victim pulled out the gun. But you have to take human reaction times into effect to process the backing away.
In the end, while the shooting is tragic, the dead guy only has himself to blame. If you try to display your dominance (which I think he was doing given his woman was right there) you run the risk of it backfiring. And boy, did it backfire!

Plus, the dead guy walks out of the store just in time to see the shooter nose to nose with his partner.
Wrong. Watch the video again. Drejka is standing about a meter away from the white car when McG comes out with Britney being inside. As McG walks toward Drejka, we see the car doors open. Britney exits the car right before McG knocks Drejka to the ground. At no point were Drejka and Britney "nose to nose". And one can interpret Britney exiting the car as escalating on her part. I see no escalation on part of Drejka.

Why shouldn't the victim be allowed to defend his family?
His family was not under attack. Somebody confronting your girlfriend about illegal parking is not at attack that requires defense. Do you know what is? Knocking somebody to the ground with a very violent push.

The guy might have looked like a threat because he was so close to the woman.
He wasn't very close and she was inside the car before she decided to come out, right before her boyfriend attacked Drejka. By the way, at that moment we have Drejka flat on the ground, in a very vulnerable position, and he is outnumbered as well. All he has in his favor is firepower.

Are you going to dig into the background of the shooter since "background matters in these cases"?
Yes. Let's see both the guys' backgrounds.

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What I would object to is the word "attack". The person saw a confrontation by their car and intervened. Intervened a bit much, but I wouldn't call it an attack.
He knocked a guy to the ground. How is that not an attack?

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It doesn't appear that the victim was a good guy either. Appears that he was well known to police.
Which one are you referring to?

Memo to self: be careful attacking anyone in Florida! Size and age don't matter if someone has a gun.
Exactly.
 
It doesn't appear that the victim was a good guy either. Appears that he was well known to police. Memo to self: be careful attacking anyone in Florida! Size and age don't matter if someone has a gun.

Memo to self: Stay the fuck away from Florida completely. Guns have no place in a civilized society.

Agreed. To make it worse, this law encourages people to also arm themselves and get a carried concealed permit. The big issue here is that there are too many people who have little to no training, with hair trigger fear and tempers, who are armed just waiting for a confrontation. If the shooter hadn't been armed, this could have been deescalated. Or maybe the shooter wouldn't even had yelled at the woman if he hadn't been armed. Sad story.
 
Reverse the color scheme to a black person shooting and killing a white person who shoved him,
And prideandfall et al would be quick to celebrate the black guy for defending himself and blaming the racist white guy for attacking the black guy. All people like p&f care about is race, not facts of the case.
 
It doesn't appear that the victim was a good guy either. Appears that he was well known to police.
so... what you're saying is being "well known to the police" invalidates the value of a human's life and makes their existence irrelevant?

what other criteria evaporates the fundamental worth of human life to you?
Harry Bosch didn't say that.

What I would object to is the word "attack". The person saw a confrontation by their car and intervened. Intervened a bit much, but I wouldn't call it an attack.

I agree. Throwing the guy down to the ground was a little aggressive. However, imagine coming out of a store and a guy is yelling at your wife and five year old son. Almost any guy would go ballistic.
 
If the shooter hadn't been armed, this could have been deescalated.
Or McG and Britney could have kicked him while he was down. We do not know. McG only backed away when he saw the gun.

Or maybe the shooter wouldn't even had yelled at the woman if he hadn't been armed. Sad story.
If the shop owner had policed the handicap spots better, then Drejka would have no need to confront illegal parkers in the first place.

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Almost any guy would go ballistic.
And when you go ballistic and attack somebody, that somebody can defend themselves.
 
nope, he's the bad guys here because we live in a god damn society, one that has its very existence predicated on the idea of a social contract in which we collectively more or less agree to not wantonly murder each other all of the time.
Yes, and that social contract also says that we should not park in handicap spots when not handicapped and that we should not attack people on the street.

see, that's pretty much the only way civilization works, is if a vast preponderance of individuals agree to this and abide by it.
Could not agree more.

being shoved, even harshly, simply isn't one of them. trying to do the mental contortions necessary to justify how it ever possibly could be is detrimental to the fabric of civilization as we know it.
The problem is that you do not know what the other guy wants to do once he knocks you to the ground. That is a tactically very bad position to be in, and in this case, with Britney exiting the car, he was outnumbered as well.

when white people use the excuse that "well he was black and therefor scary and therefor i feared for my life and therefor it justified i murdered someone in cold blood because they shoved me" is the sort of mental contortions that are detrimental to the fabric of civilization as we know it.
Again you with the race! Any guy who knocks you to the ground like that is going to be scary. White, black or purple.

THAT is why he's the bad guy here, and why you're the bad guy here, and why everyone like you is the bad guy here - because you're actively trying to weaken the foundation of human society, which history teaches us inevitably results in the downtrodden eventually having enough of your shit and rising up one morning and going "oh, i guess we're cutting off everyone's heads today" and laying into the monied class. ever heard of the french revolution? wasn't that long ago.
What the hell are you rambling on about? Downtrodden? Who is the downtrodden? Are you assuming that McG and Britney are poor just because they are black? Or that Drejka is in power just because he is white? That does not follow.

as a comfortably affluent middle class white male living in an urban environment i am far more trepidatious of the threat of retaliation for the kind of bullshit your ilk is pulling than i am of random acts of illegality from a neglected lower class acting on base human greed.
Cool story bro.

in every universe wherein sane and practical homo sapien life expectancy is observed.
47 is not old in absolute terms. Not in this universe at least.
He is significantly older than the 28 year old who attacked him. Doesn't that give him all the more reasonable fear for his life?

nope that would be my "asshole standing around yelling at people for stupid shit at a 7-11" prejudice.
Handicap spots exist for a reason. Why couldn't Britney have parked a few spots over? None of this would have happened save for that initial assholish move.

it isn't. murdering someone is worse than giving someone a brisk shove, however.
It is not murder. If the SYG proves unsuccessful, I predict manslaughter is most he'd be charged with.

see here's the problem with your "argument": your entire perspective is based on the idea that human life has some kind of intrinsic and inherent value, and that human property by association has inherent moral value as a consequence of being owned by humans.
I care little about philosophical terms like "inherent value". When you rob a store, you are not a gentle giant. When you attack a police officer, he has a right to defend himself. Likewise when you knock somebody to the ground.

however, you pick and choose which humans get to have this inherent value willy-nilly based on their skin color and/or inconsequential action (notably regarding other white people's property) - you have a pretty obvious hierarchy of ethical standards.
Bullshit. You are projecting. It is you who decides right and wrong based solely on race of participants.

as noted above, this "argument" only works from the foundation that a black man's entire existence is of less inherent value than a white man being shoved, violently or otherwise.
Bullshit!
 
His family was not under attack. Somebody confronting your girlfriend about illegal parking is not at attack that requires defense.

How does dead guy know what is going on when he exits the store? He just sees a strange and possibly deranged man yelling at his family.

That guy ended up shooting someone that was in retreat.
 
Yeah, notice the disconnect in gun advocates' rhetoric: "We need guns to protect our loved ones from violent strangers." "This man who was harrassing a stranger's family had to use his gun for self defense!"

The law exists for white people to shoot black people. Its defenders will say whatever is necessary to preserve that purpose.

I'll bet you any amount of money that if the deceased man had drawn his own gun (had he had one) and shot the man harassing his family, Derec would not be defending him.
 
How does dead guy know what is going on when he exits the store? He just sees a strange and possibly deranged man yelling at his family.
So you admit that McG had no idea what was going on but still decided to physically attack said stranger? It was a dumb thing to do.

That guy ended up shooting someone that was in retreat.
Apparently so. But you have to take human reaction times into account. McG only started to retreat when he saw the gun. But by the time the gun was pulled, Drejka already decided to fire. There was no time for his CNS to realize McG was backing away and countermand that signal.
 
Well the dead guy is the original assailant. So, yes, we can safely say that he was not going to kick himself.

First assault was verbal. Drejka was shouting.

I watched the video again. It seems he only backed away a step or two when the victim pulled out the gun.


He backed away and he never made a fast or aggressive move beyond the initial shove.

Like I said before, had the intent been great bodily harm then a suck punch or straight to ground would have been the first move, not a shove. He was simply getting the crazy guy away from his family.
 
Yeah, notice the disconnect in gun advocates' rhetoric: "We need guns to protect our loved ones from violent strangers." "This man who was harrassing a stranger's family had to use his gun for self defense!"

The law exists for white people to shoot black people. Its defenders will say whatever is necessary to preserve that purpose.

I'll bet you any amount of money that if the deceased man had drawn his own gun (had he had one) and shot the man harassing his family, Derec would not be defending him.
He effectively killed the guy for fear he was about to go black on him... because blacks have super human powers. Had he not had a gun, he would have likely got up and not died. But because he had a gun, the other guy is dead... quite needlessly. Thanks conceal carry permit.
 
How does dead guy know what is going on when he exits the store? He just sees a strange and possibly deranged man yelling at his family.
So you admit that McG had no idea what was going on but still decided to physically attack said stranger? It was a dumb thing to do.

It is defense. He felt his family threatened. You know, reaction time and all that. He comes out of the store and just didn't have time to process anything more than saving his family from the crazy shouting guy that looked like a mortal threat. His CNS didn't have time to stop and calmly ask the apparent assailant why he was assaulting his family.
 
Yeah, notice the disconnect in gun advocates' rhetoric: "We need guns to protect our loved ones from violent strangers." "This man who was harrassing a stranger's family had to use his gun for self defense!"
What are you babbling on about? Attacking somebody just because he is in an argument with your girlfriend is not defending, it's attacking. Especially when your girlfriend is in the wrong.

The law exists for white people to shoot black people. Its defenders will say whatever is necessary to preserve that purpose.
Bullshit.

I'll bet you any amount of money that if the deceased man had drawn his own gun (had he had one) and shot the man harassing his family, Derec would not be defending him.
I would not, regardless of races involved. So-called "harassing" is very different from an actual attack. Especially when your girlfriend is in the wrong regarding the argument.
A verbal argument is very different than a physical attack, but it's futile to try to explain that to those only seeing race.
 
Well the dead guy is the original assailant. So, yes, we can safely say that he was not going to kick himself.

First assault was verbal. Drejka was shouting.

I watched the video again. It seems he only backed away a step or two when the victim pulled out the gun.


He backed away and he never made a fast or aggressive move beyond the initial shove.

Like I said before, had the intent been great bodily harm then a suck punch or straight to ground would have been the first move, not a shove. He was simply getting the crazy guy away from his family.
Yeah, a beat down rarely includes a pause. He pushed the guy away, and that was that. If he intended to cause harm, he would have fell down on him and made with the "ground and pound".
 
It is defense. He felt his family threatened. You know, reaction time and all that.
It took him 5s to walk from the door to Drejka. Enough to calm the fuck down.

He comes out of the store and just didn't have time to process anything more than saving his family from the crazy shouting guy that looked like a mortal threat.
Drejka was standing one meter away from the car. In no way did that argument look like a mortal threat. Unlike McG was when he knocked Drejka to the ground in a physical attack.

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He effectively killed the guy for fear he was about to go black on him... because blacks have super human powers. Had he not had a gun, he would have likely got up and not died. But because he had a gun, the other guy is dead... quite needlessly. Thanks conceal carry permit.

No superhuman powers are necessary for SJW to take effect.
 
It took him 5s to walk from the door to Drejka. Enough to calm the fuck down.

Shove at store exit at 6 seconds. Shove at 11. Shot at 16 seconds.

Time to react?


Drejka was standing one meter away from the car.

He's got some long arms then.

In no way did that argument look like a mortal threat.

Does the video have audio? My sound card isn't working.
 
Yeah, and another thing gun advocates like to ignore; if you ever really get jumped by someone who really wants to hurt you, you likely will not have the chance to pull your gun. He had time to draw his gun in this instance because the deceased WAS NOT trying to hurt him.
 
Shove at store exit at 6 seconds. Shove at 11. Shot at 16 seconds.
Time to react?
The time between McG taking a step back and getting shot is 2s.

He's got some long arms then.
What do you mean? He is not touching the car at any point.

Does the video have audio? My sound card isn't working.
Doesn't seem to. You have an actual sound card? Are you a musician? If it's broken just enable the built in sound and move your speaker jack.

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Yeah, and another thing gun advocates like to ignore; if you ever really get jumped by someone who really wants to hurt you, you likely will not have the chance to pull your gun. He had time to draw his gun in this instance because the deceased WAS NOT trying to hurt him.
The violent push was a sign of love then? That alone could have caused broken bones or a cracked skull.
Let's not downplay what McG did.
 
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