Star Trek Discovery?

[crazyfingers]

I'll preface my comments by first saying that I've been a Trekker since Star Trek TOS was first aired. I was 6 years old and my dad watched it and so did I. I have all the DVDs.

I loved TNG and recorded every episode on VHS when it aired. I also recorded every episode of Voyager when they came out. I was slow to warm up to DS9. I never actually watched them when they aired but I had heard about the Dominion War and so about 10 years ago I purchased the whole series on DVD and at this moment I'd say that DS9 is my favorite of the series.

When Enterprise came out I watched the first half season and got tired of it. But then several years later I purchased the DVDs for all 4 seasons and like them a lot.

So I have every episode of all 5 series on DVD at this time and we watch them at diner time almost every night with my kids.

I liked the movies a lot with the glaring exception of Into Darkness. I truly hate that movie. Klingon DNA does not change just because Nero Shrimp came back in time to kill Kirk's father. And it's too dark for me to be Star Trek. And Star Trek officers do not wear military style hats!

So here i am at the beginning of series 6. I really, really hope that I like it.

We watched the first episode by screen mirror on my phone. That was not terribly successful. My phone wasn't up to the task of steaming and mirroring at the same time. Last night we streamed and mirrored to the TV using my newer and more powerful tablet. That was much better. I was greatly distracted trying to watch the first episode. Constant stops to buffer. Video and audio out of sync. And I had to make dinner for the family so could only watch through the hallway from the kitchen to the living room much of the time. Last night for episode 2 I have fewer distractions.

But WTF is with the Klingons? We've tried to rationalize their looks by considering that in that time period they all put war paint on their bodies and shaved their heads. These are not the Klingons we know from TNG and DS9. I'd prefer the Klingons be the Klingons from DS9/TNG and not follow some J.J. Abrams hacked up rewrite of Klingon DNA.

As for the plots of the two first episodes, admittedly I was often distracted, I have no real idea what the plot was beyond the Klingons and Federation appear to be at the beginning of a war and the captain and first officer had some serious arguments. I suppose I'll need to watch them again some evening without distractions.

My kids aged 14, 15 and 16 loved the first two episodes but they are sill more impressed by special effects than by the story. There is not doubt that we will watch every episode this season whether I end up liking it or not.

I may try screen mirroring with my Windows 10 notebook next time. Even when using my more powerful Android tablet last night there were a few buffering issues and the CBS app crashed twice.

I'm not keen that I have to pay a $5.99 monthly fee AND watch the commercials. But I'm not interested in paying $9.99 plan for what CBS describes as "fewer" commercials. Having read several fairly lukewarm to negative reviews of the All Access service, I hear that the reduction in the number of commercials is not very great.

At this time I'd say that I have mixed feelings about Star Trek Discovery. We'll keep watching and hopefully I'll warm up to it like it took time for me to warm up to DS9 and Enterprise.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Interesting that you presumably liked Voyager out of the stalls, but not DS9. DS9 to me was the most compelling of the arcs. TNG didn't have much of an arc, but was a very good collection of episodes. Voyager was a wasted opportunity.

Discovery is too early, but the signs aren't too good. People are praising the special effects, not the story. I can wait until it comes out on DVD to watch it. Of course Babylon 5 had a slow, though deliberate start. I think Discovery is going to fall into a Star Wars trap. They are stuck in history, so big swerves in the plot will be very difficult to sell.

 

[crazyfingers]

DS9 to me was the most compelling of the arcs. TNG didn't have much of an arc, but was a very good collection of episodes.

Ya. right now DS9 is my favorite. I don't know why I had a hard time at first. Perhaps I just wanted them to be based on a ship instead of a station.

Discovery is too early, but the signs aren't too good. People are praising the special effects, not the story. I can wait until it comes out on DVD to watch it. Of course Babylon 5 had a slow, though deliberate start. I think Discovery is going to fall into a Star Wars trap. They are stuck in history, so big swerves in the plot will be very difficult to sell.

Why can't they pronounce Sarek correctly?

 

[marc]

Watched re-runs of TOS so much I would recognize many episodes within 20 seconds, and be proud of it. (btw, Galaxy Quest is required viewing for any TOS fan)

Liked TNG, DS9 was excellent. Missed much of the last couple seasons of DS9 due to college, got the DvD's and watched them all some years later. Thought it was very interesting and timely, the way Cardassians called Bajoran resistance 'terrorists', and the Bajorans considered collaborators traitors, while we were occupying Iraq.

Voyager was the only series I never finished. It just got too stupid, and they didn't know what to do with most of their cast, exiling them to the background. Enterprise was ok. Hated the time-war storyline and the xindies. And the final episode was trash. I didn't mind they way they hand it as Riker going over historical events, it was the stupid story line, and killing off a main character just for the shock value.

Wish CBS had just let Axanar just make their movie, it would have been good. Hope Discovery will work out, if only they weren't so stupid/greedy to put it on another pay service. Oh well, until it comes out on DvD can watch Orville. It is kinda like Star Trek without the dignity.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Watched re-runs of TOS so much I would recognize many episodes within 20 seconds, and be proud of it. (btw, Galaxy Quest is required viewing for any TOS fan)

Liked TNG, DS9 was excellent. Missed much of the last couple seasons of DS9 due to college, got the DvD's and watched them all some years later. Thought it was very interesting and timely, the way Cardassians called Bajoran resistance 'terrorists', and the Bajorans considered collaborators traitors, while we were occupying Iraq.

Voyager was the only series I never finished. It just got too stupid, and they didn't know what to do with most of their cast, exiling them to the background. Enterprise was ok. Hated the time-war storyline and the xindies. And the final episode was trash. I didn't mind they way they hand it as Riker going over historical events, it was the stupid story line, and killing off a main character just for the shock value.

Wish CBS had just let Axanar just make their movie, it would have been good. Hope Discovery will work out, if only they weren't so stupid/greedy to put it on another pay service. Oh well, until it comes out on DvD can watch Orville. It is kinda like Star Trek without the dignity.

Yeah, I have no hope for Orville. While MacFarlene did help produce Cosmos, since he made it big (after Family Guy returned), he hasn't made anything that good and he is no Whedon or Straczynski. I think the concept is way too complicated for him.

 

[marc]

Yeah, I have no hope for Orville. While MacFarlene did help produce Cosmos, since he made it big (after Family Guy returned), he hasn't made anything that good and he is no Whedon or Straczynski. I think the concept is way too complicated for him.

Have you watched any of it? I'm enjoying it so far, and so does my wife who loves Star Trek (and hates CBS for the horrible job they are doing with the franchise)

 

[Iznomneak]

People are praising the special effects, not the story.

That was exactly my impression. I couldn't get into most of the characters. I won't be subscribing to the stream.

 

[Jayjay]

I for one liked the beginning of Discovery. Sure the "mind meld over interstellar distances", and the technobabble and other little details could be criticized, but Star Trek has always had plot devices like that. They are just a setup to the ideas. The Vulcan-Klingon relations were an interesting point, and the fact that we couldn't see whether Michael's plan would have worked had she been able to carry it through means I spent a lot of time thinking about it after the episode, which I think was the point.

And I for one think the Klingons in TNG and DS9 became a bad joke. Just like the Klingons were updated from TOS to TNG and the movies, I see no harm in giving them yet another update. It's long overdue, and I'm thrilled to see the new Klingons. So what if it may contradict some previous incarnation of the show? Let it succeed or fail on its own merits.

What worries me a bit though is that the first episode doesn't seem like an example of what future episodes will be about, it's an origin story of Michael Burnham. The titular ship isn't even in the first episodes. As much as I liked it, the quality of the first two episodes doesn't necessarily reflect the rest of the series. It could suck, or it could be great. Probably something in between, like all Treks are.

 

[thebeave]

Honestly I didn't much care for it. And what's the deal with the Captain being named Michael, and she's a woman? Is she supposed to be a tranny or something?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

The new Kilngon look was distracting and the scenes where they had them talking in Klingon for five minutes straight with subtitles were unwatchable.

The rest of it was ... ok. It was a decent first couple of episodes for a show looking to find its legs. They were trying, they had some good ideas and it could potentially go somewhere.

I hope to be more impressed with it as the season continues.

 

[couch_sloth]

The new Kilngon look was distracting and the scenes where they had them talking in Klingon for five minutes straight with subtitles were unwatchable.

The rest of it was ... ok. It was a decent first couple of episodes for a show looking to find its legs. They were trying, they had some good ideas and it could potentially go somewhere.

I hope to be more impressed with it as the season continues.

Overall I thought it was a fairly good start. We'll see where it goes from here. The success of past Star Trek shows has had a lot to do with the interaction of the characters, each with their personality quirks, strengths and weaknesses. They need to get fans as excited about the new characters as they were with Kirk, McCoy, Spock, Picard, Data, Quark, etc.
I still don't understand the logic behind changing the appearance of the Klingons, especially if you are trying to present a continuum with the previous Star Trek series. I really didn't find the new Klingons anymore convincing as menacing aliens, as compared to the Klingons of TNG, DS9, Voyager and Enterprise.

 

[crazyfingers]

The new Kilngon look was distracting and the scenes where they had them talking in Klingon for five minutes straight with subtitles were unwatchable.

The rest of it was ... ok. It was a decent first couple of episodes for a show looking to find its legs. They were trying, they had some good ideas and it could potentially go somewhere.

I hope to be more impressed with it as the season continues.

Overall I thought it was a fairly good start. We'll see where it goes from here. The success of past Star Trek shows has had a lot to do with the interaction of the characters, each with their personality quirks, strengths and weaknesses. They need to get fans as excited about the new characters as they were with Kirk, McCoy, Spock, Picard, Data, Quark, etc.
I still don't understand the logic behind changing the appearance of the Klingons, especially if you are trying to present a continuum with the previous Star Trek series. I really didn't find the new Klingons anymore convincing as menacing aliens, as compared to the Klingons of TNG, DS9, Voyager and Enterprise.

According to wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Discovery "Fuller's intention to re-design the Klingons was based on the inconsistent designs used for the species throughout the franchise's history, and his wanting to portray the race as "sexy and vital and different" rather than "the thugs of the universe"

Sexy? If that's really his intent, I'd call it a total failure.

 

[jab]

The new Kilngon look was distracting and the scenes where they had them talking in Klingon for five minutes straight with subtitles were unwatchable.

The rest of it was ... ok. It was a decent first couple of episodes for a show looking to find its legs. They were trying, they had some good ideas and it could potentially go somewhere.

I hope to be more impressed with it as the season continues.

I agree--I just hope it doesn't get into silly mystic stuff like Deep Space 9, by far the weakest of the 4 main series.

 

[couch_sloth]

Overall I thought it was a fairly good start. We'll see where it goes from here. The success of past Star Trek shows has had a lot to do with the interaction of the characters, each with their personality quirks, strengths and weaknesses. They need to get fans as excited about the new characters as they were with Kirk, McCoy, Spock, Picard, Data, Quark, etc.
I still don't understand the logic behind changing the appearance of the Klingons, especially if you are trying to present a continuum with the previous Star Trek series. I really didn't find the new Klingons anymore convincing as menacing aliens, as compared to the Klingons of TNG, DS9, Voyager and Enterprise.

According to wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Discovery "Fuller's intention to re-design the Klingons was based on the inconsistent designs used for the species throughout the franchise's history, and his wanting to portray the race as "sexy and vital and different" rather than "the thugs of the universe"

Sexy? If that's really his intent, I'd call it a total failure.

The big change in Klingon 'design' came with the first Star Trek movie, back in 1979. Prior to that the Klingons looked pretty much like humans with bushy dark eyebrows.
The Enterprise series actually tried to give an explanation as to why many Klingons looked human. That is, It was the result of a genetic engineering experiment, by the Klingons, that had gone very bad.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The new Kilngon look was distracting and the scenes where they had them talking in Klingon for five minutes straight with subtitles were unwatchable.

The rest of it was ... ok. It was a decent first couple of episodes for a show looking to find its legs. They were trying, they had some good ideas and it could potentially go somewhere.

I hope to be more impressed with it as the season continues.

I agree--I just hope it doesn't get into silly mystic stuff like Deep Space 9, by far the weakest of the 4 main series.

What was mystic about it? The gods were just quasi-indifferent aliens.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

The big change in Klingon 'design' came with the first Star Trek movie, back in 1979. Prior to that the Klingons looked pretty much like humans with bushy dark eyebrows.
The Enterprise series actually tried to give an explanation as to why many Klingons looked human. That is, It was the result of a genetic engineering experiment, by the Klingons, that had gone very bad.

And TNG dealt with it better. There was one episode where they went back in time to the original series and had the old school Klingons running around. When Ryker asked Worf why they looked different, Worf just grunted "We don't talk about it" and the plot went forward, never mentioning it again. That was the writers' way of saying "STFU, we've made better looking Klingons now. Deal with it and move on".

They should have dealt with it and moved on instead of trying to retcon a stupid explanation into the story. That way, they could have stuck with the well designed Klingons of TNG instead of these pathetic looking ones on Discovery. Now, if Klingons are rarely mentioned again and the show focuses on Discovery flying around discovering new and interesting things, it's an early miss which the show can get over. However, if the show focuses on a conflict between the Klingons and the Federation and having people dressed up in these poorly designed costumes doing a bad job of speaking in Klingon is a central part of the series, the whole thing is going to be a dud.

 

[couch_sloth]

The big change in Klingon 'design' came with the first Star Trek movie, back in 1979. Prior to that the Klingons looked pretty much like humans with bushy dark eyebrows.
The Enterprise series actually tried to give an explanation as to why many Klingons looked human. That is, It was the result of a genetic engineering experiment, by the Klingons, that had gone very bad.

And TNG dealt with it better. There was one episode where they went back in time to the original series and had the old school Klingons running around. When Ryker asked Worf why they looked different, Worf just grunted "We don't talk about it" and the plot went forward, never mentioning it again. That was the writers' way of saying "STFU, we've made better looking Klingons now. Deal with it and move on".

They should have dealt with it and moved on instead of trying to retcon a stupid explanation into the story. That way, they could have stuck with the well designed Klingons of TNG instead of these pathetic looking ones on Discovery. Now, if Klingons are rarely mentioned again and the show focuses on Discovery flying around discovering new and interesting things, it's an early miss which the show can get over. However, if the show focuses on a conflict between the Klingons and the Federation and having people dressed up in these poorly designed costumes doing a bad job of speaking in Klingon is a central part of the series, the whole thing is going to be a dud.

I think it was actually DS9 where Worf went back in time (To the original series tribble episode).
I think that any writer of a series has to resist the temptation to change core aspects of the series, otherwise fans can lose interest because of the lack of consistency.
In this case, they are dealing with the core aspects built upon by multiple series and movies.
I wouldn't mind the change in the Klingons, if it was done for some compelling reason. I just don't see what that would be under these circumstances. If he didn't like or understand how past Klingons were portrayed, perhaps he should have hired writers & designers who did.

 

[crazyfingers]

And TNG dealt with it better. There was one episode where they went back in time to the original series and had the old school Klingons running around. When Ryker asked Worf why they looked different, Worf just grunted "We don't talk about it" and the plot went forward, never mentioning it again. That was the writers' way of saying "STFU, we've made better looking Klingons now. Deal with it and move on".

They should have dealt with it and moved on instead of trying to retcon a stupid explanation into the story. That way, they could have stuck with the well designed Klingons of TNG instead of these pathetic looking ones on Discovery. Now, if Klingons are rarely mentioned again and the show focuses on Discovery flying around discovering new and interesting things, it's an early miss which the show can get over. However, if the show focuses on a conflict between the Klingons and the Federation and having people dressed up in these poorly designed costumes doing a bad job of speaking in Klingon is a central part of the series, the whole thing is going to be a dud.

I think it was actually DS9 where Worf went back in time (To the original series tribble episode).
I think that any writer of a series has to resist the temptation to change core aspects of the series, otherwise fans can lose interest because of the lack of consistency.
In this case, they are dealing with the core aspects built upon by multiple series and movies.
I wouldn't mind the change in the Klingons, if it was done for some compelling reason. I just don't see what that would be under these circumstances. If he didn't like or understand how past Klingons were portrayed, perhaps he should have hired writers & designers who did.

The change in the look of the Klingons from TOS to TNG was explained in an Enterprise episode. It had to do with Klingon attempts to do generic enhancements to the race using some Human DNA originally developed during the Eugenics wars on Earth and then further developments by a rogue scientist in Enterprise time. The Klingons were "cured" by the Enterprise doctor but human like features remained among millions of Klingons. Recall Warf said that it was a long story in DS9 "Trials and Tribulations". It was a handy way to explain the Klingon change in looks between TOS and TNG (that was really an artifact of cheap and less advanced costume technology back in the 1960's TOS.

 

[couch_sloth]

... It was a handy way to explain the Klingon change in looks between TOS and TNG (that was really an artifact of cheap and less advanced costume technology back in the 1960's TOS.

Yeah. The change in Klingon appearance happened with the first ST movie in 1979. Back then, movie makeup special effects tended to be more elaborate than those used on TV series.

 

[Jayjay]

I can't figure out why people would want to go back to aliens who are just humans with clumsily attached forehead prosthetics. At least the new Klingons are showing a little bit more effort in the make-up department. And the new Klingons are much more believable culturally, than the sad caricature that the old Klingons had become by end of DS9.

What the Klingons look like is about as unimportant as the federation uniforms in Discovery looking nothing like TOS nor TNG.