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Stephen Breyer to retire at the end of this court session.

If your underlying basis is that women are basically lying sluts when it comes to sexual assault allegations, and that only videos from at least 3 different angles are required for verification, then Derec's position is logical and consistent.

The thing is we do have verification. I am very reluctant about these claims of long-ago assaults--normally it just comes down to credibility and in a case like this that's not enough for me.

However, she was able to give multiple details of the situation that were corroborated. Unless she was planning this for decades (and how would she have known to so do??) that says there was something that made the details really stick in her mind. Some very emotional event happened that day. Combine that with his reaction--whatever it was he very much doesn't want to talk about it.

This leaves me with the only position that fits the facts is that whatever the event was it's something seriously wrong. This does not prove sexual assault but there aren't a lot of other options and I'm willing to take her word for what the wrong was.
 

The uproar is not about that a black woman be nominated, but that it has to be a black woman. That is a naked quota.

There is also the problem that people on the left insist that the court should better reflect the demographics of the country. But black people are 13% of the population and 11% representation is closer than 22%. So there is no reason to use a tool as crude as quotas to increase representation.
And is the demand now going to be that this overrepresentation must be maintained at least at this level - i.e. that under no circumstances should a black justice be replaced by a white one?
 
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The thing is we do have verification.
What "verification"? There is nobody who was at the party who has come forward to corroborate Ford's claims. And her friend Keyser is skeptical that it could have happened.

I am very reluctant about these claims of long-ago assaults
Except when they are about a Trump nominee?

However, she was able to give multiple details of the situation that were corroborated.
What details for example were corroborated?

Some very emotional event happened that day.
That does not mean there was a rape attempt, much less by any particular individual.

Jackie Coakley (the UVA false accuser) was also very emotionally distraught. And in many aspects her claims are similar to Ford's. That does not mean either one was attacked.

This leaves me with the only position that fits the facts is that whatever the event was it's something seriously wrong. This does not prove sexual assault but there aren't a lot of other options and I'm willing to take her word for what the wrong was.

Emphasis on what really matters here.
 
I appreciate the fact that Derec has conducted his own very thorough investigation of the Kavanaugh rape charges based on his careful examination of all the information that can be found on the internet. Obviously, Christine Blasey Ford saw how well it worked out for Anita Hill to draw national attention to her involvement in a sex scandal. :rolleyes: Still, I feel that it would have been a good idea to have a thorough FBI investigation of the matter rather than a rushed superficial investigation that failed to question either Kavanaugh or Ford about the facts. Luckily, we have the right wing blogosphere to do all the research for them.
 
It's also true that Derec is basing his opinion on his reading of the public record rather than an actual FBI investigation in which lying, like perjury in court, is subject to criminal penalties.
I had to go back and look up some details. One of the reason no further FBI investigation was conducted is that the allegation did not surface more than two months after the nomination was made, and just before the original confirmation vote was to be taken. The timing of the allegation is thus at least as suspect as the allegation itself.

In any case, the whole thing is moot as he is on the court, will be on the court for a while, and y'all will not impeach him.
Time to get over him.
 
I appreciate the fact that Derec has conducted his own very thorough investigation of the Kavanaugh rape charges based on his careful examination of all the information that can be found on the internet.
Just like everybody else discussing it on here.
Obviously, Christine Blasey Ford saw how well it worked out for Anita Hill to draw national attention to her involvement in a sex scandal. :rolleyes:
It worked out very well. She became well-known and is a heroine to radfems to this day.

Still, I feel that it would have been a good idea to have a thorough FBI investigation of the matter rather than a rushed superficial investigation that failed to question either Kavanaugh or Ford about the facts.
And if Garth Blasey-Ford had come forward before mid-September, there may have been time. Although I do not know what you imagine they could have uncovered 35 years after the alleged facts.

Luckily, we have the right wing blogosphere to do all the research for them.
As do you with the left-wing blogosphere. For the record, I do not follow the right-wing blogosphere anyway. I much prefer sparring with you guys. :)
 
The uproar is not about that a black woman be nominated, but that it has to be a black woman. That is a naked quota.
I remember Trump promising an anti-abortion SCOTUS judge. Nothing about competence.

Given that the U.S., as a whole, supports feticide rights*, doesn't that mean you're OK with SCOTUS appointments that don't reflect the vision for the USA held by most Americans? Anti-American? While complaining about a presidential campaign promise to add a qualified justice who helps make SCOTUS reflect the American people as a group?

Trump promises a judge that doesn't agree with American people. Biden promises one that more reflects us overall. Why is Biden's campaign promise a problem, but Trump's is not?
Tom

*I'm more pro-life than most evangelical Christians. I'm opposed to feticide as a birth control method. But I want to it stop, not just punish people for "getting in trouble".
 
Trump Vows to Appoint Pro-Life Judge to Supreme Court - Nov 14, 2016
"During the campaign, you said that you would appoint justice who were against abortion rights," Stahl said. "Are you looking to appoint a justice who wants to overturn Roe v. Wade?"

"I'm pro-life," Trump replied. "The judges will be pro-life."
Gorsuch pick affirms Trump vow to pick 'pro-life' justice- POLITICO
Judge Neil Gorsuch has never ruled directly on abortion rights, but he has decided twice against Obamacare’s contraception coverage requirement and written a book on the value of human life — signs that he conforms to President Donald Trump’s pledge to appoint “pro-life” justices.
Anti-abortionists liked him, while abortion defenders didn't.

Trump Picks Amy Coney Barrett for SCOTUS Seat, Delivering on “Pro-Life” Promise | Vanity Fair - "Barrett’s confirmation will tilt the nation’s highest court further right, potentially impacting a generation of rulings on issues ranging from Obamacare to immigration to abortion."
 
Obviously, Christine Blasey Ford saw how well it worked out for Anita Hill to draw national attention to her involvement in a sex scandal. :rolleyes:
It worked out very well. She became well-known and is a heroine to radfems to this day.

In all of your meticulous research, did it escape your notice that Ford at first reported the matter to Feinstein but opted not to come forward with it publicly? She took a lie detector test administered by a former FBI agent, which she passed. Two months after disclosing the matter to Feinstein, she decided not to go public, since she was convinced Kavanaugh would be confirmed regardless. Days after that, she was outed in the press. For some reason, she didn't want to become a heroine to the "radfems" that you are so obsessed with. Rather, she wanted the matter dropped but had little choice after it became reported.

Still, I feel that it would have been a good idea to have a thorough FBI investigation of the matter rather than a rushed superficial investigation that failed to question either Kavanaugh or Ford about the facts.
And if Garth Blasey-Ford had come forward before mid-September, there may have been time. Although I do not know what you imagine they could have uncovered 35 years after the alleged facts.

She had reported the matter to Senator Feinstein at the beginning of July but, understandably, wanted her name kept confidential. She didn't actually "come forward" in September. That's when the press got wind of the scandal. There was plenty of time to delay confirmation, as Republicans have shown time and again when Democratic nominees are put forward. They hobbled the FBI's ability to investigate and rushed the nomination through. The FBI never even interrogated Kavanaugh or Ford on the matter--the two people who had firsthand knowledge of it. So, yes, I think that a real investigation might have confirmed or disconfirmed details that never came to light except as rumors in the press and on social media. After the Kavanaugh confirmation, the investigation became moot, especially since Trump's DoJ was obviously never going to investigate Kavanaugh.
 
I remember Trump promising an anti-abortion SCOTUS judge. Nothing about competence.
Competence should go without saying. Also, I think judicial opinions are more relevant than melanin content and genitals when choosing a justice. Don't you agree? Besides, I expect a Dem president to nominate a very pro-abortion judge. Potato, potahto.

Given that the U.S., as a whole, supports feticide rights*, doesn't that mean you're OK with SCOTUS appointments that don't reflect the vision for the USA held by most Americans?
Ideally, SCOTUS justices would interpret the law based on their understanding of the constitution and not their policy preferences or opinion polls. Now, given that they are human beings, opinions do sneak in, but this partisan polarization of SCOTUS is not a good development.
Also, Americans are very divided on abortion - a lot depends on how the poll questions are asked and there is no clear majority either way.
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Most Americans seem to oppose both extremes.
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Anti-American? While complaining about a presidential campaign promise to add a qualified justice who helps make SCOTUS reflect the American people as a group?
How exactly does Biden's promise to only consider a black woman and not all Americans "reflect American people as a group"? And you are shifting here from policy opinions (like abortion) to immutable identity as if they were the same thing.

Trump promises a judge that doesn't agree with American people. Biden promises one that more reflects us overall. Why is Biden's campaign promise a problem, but Trump's is not?
Trump's picks agree with many Americans and disagree with many others, just like Obama's picks and just like Biden's pick undoubtedly will. But Biden's promise was about identity politics, which you again are conflating with policy positions for some reason. And note that if it is proportional representation you seek, 1 black justice would be more representative of US population than 2. Also, there has been a black justice on the court since 1967. There has never been an Asian justice or an atheist/agnostic one for that matter. An Asian atheist would be more representative than a second black justice.

*I'm more pro-life than most evangelical Christians. I'm opposed to feticide as a birth control method. But I want to it stop, not just punish people for "getting in trouble".
I am generally pro-choice, at least early in pregnancy. I do not think "abortion as birth control" should be allowed late term.

That said, I agree with "liberal" justices on some things and with conservative ones on others. For example, the so-called affirmative action is clearly unconstitutional and I hope this SCOTUS (despite Biden's naked quota pick) finally declares it unconstitutional like they should have in 1978 Regents v. Bakke decision.
 
In all of your meticulous research, did it escape your notice that Ford at first reported the matter to Feinstein but opted not to come forward with it publicly?
Right. Both Feinstein and Ford herself decided to sit on it until the last minute in order to drag out the confirmation as long as possible.

She took a lie detector test administered by a former FBI agent, which she passed.
Lie detector tests are junk science. A psychologist would know that.
Listen, we debated all this when it happened. There was a long-ass main thread on this and several smaller ones.
In any case, Ford failed, Kav was confirmed. Get over it already.

Two months after disclosing the matter to Feinstein, she decided not to go public, since she was convinced Kavanaugh would be confirmed regardless. Days after that, she was outed in the press. For some reason, she didn't want to become a heroine to the "radfems" that you are so obsessed with. Rather, she wanted the matter dropped but had little choice after it became reported.
That is your interpretation. Mine is that she waited until the last minute in order to delay the confirmation. Which she did.

She had reported the matter to Senator Feinstein at the beginning of July but, understandably, wanted her name kept confidential.
Nothing understandable there. If you make serious allegations, you should stand behind them.

They hobbled the FBI's ability to investigate and rushed the nomination through. The FBI never even interrogated Kavanaugh or Ford on the matter--the two people who had firsthand knowledge of it.
Again, had Ford come forward in July, there'd been time to run a more in-depth investigation. Which I doubt would have uncovered anything more than "he said, she said" anyway.
So, yes, I think that a real investigation might have confirmed or disconfirmed details that never came to light except as rumors in the press and on social media.
How would they have done that? There is no physical evidence, just recollections of people from 35 years ago.
After the Kavanaugh confirmation, the investigation became moot, especially since Trump's DoJ was obviously never going to investigate Kavanaugh.
As if the Biden DOJ is any less partisan! This is what happened recently, where a DOJ prosecutor basically acted as another defense attorney simply because he agreed with a #BLM arsonist's politics.

Judge goes below guidelines, gives 10-year term to man who set deadly Lake St. fire during unrest

Minnesota Star Tribune said:
A federal prosecutor told the judge he saw the defendant as a protester, not a rioter, and argued for leniency for a Rochester man who was accused of setting a deadly fire in a Lake Street pawnshop soon after George Floyd's death.
The 10 years of prison time given to Montez T. Lee Jr., 26, in U.S. District Court in St. Paul last week fell well below federal guidelines and follows his guilty plea to arson in connection with the fire that engulfed the Max It Pawn store in the 2700 block of E. Lake Street on May 28, 2020, three days after Floyd was killed while in police custody in south Minneapolis. The remains of Oscar Lee Stewart Jr., 30, of Burnsville were recovered from the rubble nearly two months later. An autopsy found that Stewart died of smoke inhalation and excessive burns.
This prosecutor would not be excusing this arson were it committed by a Proud Boi or a January 6th rioter. But he considers #BLMers "protesters, not rioters" even when they set deadly fires. I think it is likely Montez Lee would not have been prosecuted at all had Trump's DOJ not charged him already. Easier to sweep stuff like this under the rug before the prosecution is started in the first place.
And let's see how much prison time, if any, NYC firebombing lawyers Colinford Mattis and Urooj Rahman get. I doubt it will be much.

Minnesota Star Tribune said:
[Prosecutor Thomas] Calhoun-Lopez invoked the words of Martin Luther King Jr., champion of nonviolence during the civil rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s, and noted that King told CBS-TV in 1966, "We've got to see that a riot is the language of the unheard."
MLK also said that "riots are socially destructive and self-defeating". And the "unheard" ignores the fact that blacks have orders of magnitude more political and social power and visibility than in the 60s. If he is excusing #BLM riots, why not the January 6th riots? Those who participated also see themselves as "unheard". No, we must condemn all rioting, and not pick and choose based on politics and skin color.

Btw, this also shows that Merrick Garland is not really a moderate, when he is ok with his prosecutors exhibit rank viewpoint discrimination.
 
In all of your meticulous research, did it escape your notice that Ford at first reported the matter to Feinstein but opted not to come forward with it publicly?
Right. Both Feinstein and Ford herself decided to sit on it until the last minute in order to drag out the confirmation as long as possible.

She took a lie detector test administered by a former FBI agent, which she passed.
Lie detector tests are junk science. A psychologist would know that.
Listen, we debated all this when it happened. There was a long-ass main thread on this and several smaller ones.
In any case, Ford failed, Kav was confirmed. Get over it already.

Two months after disclosing the matter to Feinstein, she decided not to go public, since she was convinced Kavanaugh would be confirmed regardless. Days after that, she was outed in the press. For some reason, she didn't want to become a heroine to the "radfems" that you are so obsessed with. Rather, she wanted the matter dropped but had little choice after it became reported.
That is your interpretation. Mine is that she waited until the last minute in order to delay the confirmation. Which she did.

She had reported the matter to Senator Feinstein at the beginning of July but, understandably, wanted her name kept confidential.
Nothing understandable there. If you make serious allegations, you should stand behind them.


Perhaps so, but she only made those allegations to Feinstein with the understanding that her information was confidential. Perhaps that was a naive assumption on her part, but that is what is in the public record. Your allegation that she and Feinstein were somehow coordinating a nefarious scheme to hold back information until the last minute is pure speculation based on your telepathic skills. It strikes me as completely reasonable that the events unfolded as the press reported them, based on the information that they had. I have to say that I watched all of the proceedings and hearings, and Ford was either being completely honest about her memories and motivations or she was an amazing scam artist. I can understand why you would prefer to think of her as a master scam artist, but I don't find your speculation the least bit credible.

They hobbled the FBI's ability to investigate and rushed the nomination through. The FBI never even interrogated Kavanaugh or Ford on the matter--the two people who had firsthand knowledge of it.
Again, had Ford come forward in July, there'd been time to run a more in-depth investigation. Which I doubt would have uncovered anything more than "he said, she said" anyway.
So, yes, I think that a real investigation might have confirmed or disconfirmed details that never came to light except as rumors in the press and on social media.
How would they have done that? There is no physical evidence, just recollections of people from 35 years ago.

They look at corroboration and consistency of testimony. That's what investigations are about, not just physical recordings of people doing bad things. Investigators and prosecutors are actually quite skilled at doing those kinds of things. You and I are not. And there were records that could be used to corroborate some of the claims that people were making from memory. The FBI simply wasn't given the time or the leeway to do a reasonably thorough investigation concerning a lifetime appointment to the highest court in the land.

After the Kavanaugh confirmation, the investigation became moot, especially since Trump's DoJ was obviously never going to investigate Kavanaugh.
As if the Biden DOJ is any less partisan! This is what happened recently, where a DOJ prosecutor basically acted as another defense attorney simply because he agreed with a #BLM arsonist's politics...

Huh??? What??? Now we are supposed to start talking about BLM and arson??? OK. Not going there. That's not relevant to what we were discussing. Let's at least try to keep it vaguely relevant to the process of confirming Supreme Court justices. The Ford-Kavanaugh controversy is at least marginally relevant to the question of Biden's process for choosing a nominee now. If you don't want to continue the discussion on that topic, then the rest of what you went on about belongs in a different discussion thread. If you want to argue that Biden is a partisan Democrat, I'll certainly concede the point. If you want to argue that the way he is going about nominating a Supreme Court justice this time around is wrong or somehow inconsistent with the way the Kavanaugh matter was handled, then stay on that topic.
 
The thing is we do have verification.
What "verification"? There is nobody who was at the party who has come forward to corroborate Ford's claims. And her friend Keyser is skeptical that it could have happened.

She was able to identify elements of the scene that have been verified to be true. Something caused her to remember the details. Do you remember the layout of a house you visited once decades ago??

I am very reluctant about these claims of long-ago assaults
Except when they are about a Trump nominee?

When she made the allegations I didn't consider them relevant--but then when details were being corroborated my position changed.

However, she was able to give multiple details of the situation that were corroborated.
What details for example were corroborated?

Off the top of my head, the layout of the house.

Some very emotional event happened that day.
That does not mean there was a rape attempt, much less by any particular individual.

Jackie Coakley (the UVA false accuser) was also very emotionally distraught. And in many aspects her claims are similar to Ford's. That does not mean either one was attacked.

Emotional by itself would prove nothing.

This leaves me with the only position that fits the facts is that whatever the event was it's something seriously wrong. This does not prove sexual assault but there aren't a lot of other options and I'm willing to take her word for what the wrong was.

Emphasis on what really matters here.

The thing is very few things fit with what we already know. I am convinced something happened that day that was extremely emotionally powerful for her. He was there, he says nothing happened--but that's incompatible with the facts saying something big happened. He knows, he's not talking, that basically says whatever it was was criminal and enough to scuttle his nomination. What she's claiming is about as low as possible compatible with what we know, thus I see no reason to figure she's not right.

If this was a made-up allegation she wouldn't have been able to give verifiable details unless she had been planning to do so for a very long time--and that makes no sense.
 
It's also true that Derec is basing his opinion on his reading of the public record rather than an actual FBI investigation in which lying, like perjury in court, is subject to criminal penalties.
I had to go back and look up some details. One of the reason no further FBI investigation was conducted is that the allegation did not surface more than two months after the nomination was made, and just before the original confirmation vote was to be taken. The timing of the allegation is thus at least as suspect as the allegation itself.

In any case, the whole thing is moot as he is on the court, will be on the court for a while, and y'all will not impeach him.
Time to get over him.

It was only made public close to the vote--it had been made privately before, nothing happened so she decided to go public with it. The FBI investigation should have happened before when she made the allegation privately.
 
Back to topic, I think the worst possible outcome of this is if the Republicans don't object. There are more articles written by those allied to Democrats talking about how the Republicans are going to object that way than there are articles written by those allied to Republicans objecting that way. The farthest Republicans go is to say it is racist and sexist to limit the choice by race and sex, and they are mocking the Democrats when they say that.

If the Republicans say "well, this won't really change the balance of the court, so let's go ahead and support this one" it will totally deflate one of the major reasons that the Biden administration is putting this one forward. The goal is to say "look, they voted against a black woman, that means they are racist and sexist." Even if it is clearly evident that they voted the way they did based on how the nominee interprets the constitution the rhetoric will still be that they voted based on race and sex.

If the Republicans don't object that will leave the Democrats going into the Midterm saying "You voted against her because ... well ... wait, um, erm ..."
 
Back to topic, I think the worst possible outcome of this is if the Republicans don't object. There are more articles written by those allied to Democrats talking about how the Republicans are going to object that way than there are articles written by those allied to Republicans objecting that way. The farthest Republicans go is to say it is racist and sexist to limit the choice by race and sex, and they are mocking the Democrats when they say that.

If the Republicans say "well, this won't really change the balance of the court, so let's go ahead and support this one" it will totally deflate one of the major reasons that the Biden administration is putting this one forward. The goal is to say "look, they voted against a black woman, that means they are racist and sexist." Even if it is clearly evident that they voted the way they did based on how the nominee interprets the constitution the rhetoric will still be that they voted based on race and sex.

If the Republicans don't object that will leave the Democrats going into the Midterm saying "You voted against her because ... well ... wait, um, erm ..."
Really? If the Republicans don't object in sufficient numbers, we have a new Justice. If the Republicans do object then it's just the usual GOP obstruction of any candidate nominated by a Dem. POTUS.
 
Well, there are a lot of possibilities. Just as examples, if an arguer condemns what a speaker says by grabbing onto what a third party says and talking as though the speaker said that, then he's disrespecting the speaker personally even if what he thinks he's disrespecting are the speaker's views.
Not what's happening here so not applicable.
But it did happen here -- it's what Swami did to Jason.

Or if a host picks out a focus group member to talk first because his ethnic group is at the top of the progressive stack, but then when he says something she doesn't like she calls him an Uncle Tom, then she respected his minority status but she disrespected his minority group.
Not what's happening here so not applicable.
I was explaining the distinction between disrespecting minority status, which was on your list, and disrespecting a minority group, which wasn't on your list but should have been. The latter is applicable here -- Elixir disrespected a minority group.

Or if you disrespect a man's views because he said something wildly libertarian and you explain your disrespect as disrespecting his conservative views, then you've disrespected his libertarian views even though you erroneously thought you were disrespecting his conservative views.
Maybe applicable if you ignore the very thin line between conservative and libertarian views in many cases.
So very thin. From a certain point of view, anyway.

political-spectrum-chart-nazi-nri-nazi-nazr-18848280.png
 
Yes, I would!
So, imagine a woodworker. This woodworker is clearly a master of his craft. They are a fantastic woodworker, capable of carving things that people would have insisted had they not seen with their own eyes that the angles and places and ways it has been carved have in fact been so shaped!

Let us imagine now this master of their skills, the utter savant that they are, using this skill to make nothing but perfect replicas of a bust of Hitler perched stop a giant swastika assembled from the faces of crying Jews, each wreathed in fire.

It's possible to be great at what you do and still be awful.
 
political-spectrum-chart-nazi-nri-nazi-nazr-18848280.png


Now THAT is a classic! A truly universal observation, and anyone who pretends that this is not them, is a phony.
 
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