Students at Valencia College in Florida forced to undergo vaginal probes in classroom

[AthenaAwakened]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/18/us/orlando-college-sued-forced-vaginal-exams/

(CNN)Two college students say they were forced to submit to transvaginal probes as part of their classroom training to learn how to perform the medical procedure.

The details are outlined in a federal lawsuit filed Thursday in Orlando against Valencia College and three instructors. It alleges that medical diagnostic students at the college were forced to submit to the examination of their sexual organs under threat of having their grades reduced or of being blacklisted by future employers. The three defendants named in the lawsuit, Maureen Bugnacki, Linda Shaheen and Barbara Ball, have not responded to CNN's requests for comment.

Peer physical examination is an accepted practice in the medical field, but several recent reports cited by the U.S. National Library of Medicine mention a growing need for clear policies regarding peer physical examination at medical schools.

The school's answer

Carol Traynor, the public relations director for Valencia College, said the school has not been served with the lawsuit so would not be able to comment. However, with regard to Valencia's diagnostic medical sonography associate degree program, the college issued the following statement:

"The use of volunteers -- including fellow students -- for medical sonography training is a nationally accepted practice. Valencia College's sonography program has upheld the highest standards with respect to ultrasound scanning for educational purposes, including voluntary participation and professional supervision by faculty in a controlled laboratory setting. Nonetheless, we continue to review this practice and others to ensure that they are effective and appropriate for the learning environment."

Should The allegations, if proven true, lead to criminal charges and if so, against whom?

 

[NobleSavage]

Do male nurses have to stick Q-tips down their dick tubes to learn how to test for STDs?

 

[Derec]

How do I sogn up for the class?

 

[thebeave]

Maybe I'm missing something, but haven't medical students been doing tests on each other since the beginning? My ex BIL (an ER doctor) told me they usually performed diagnostic tests on each other, including some of the more embarrassing ones. I remember thinking at the time that I'm glad I never was interested in medicine as a career.

 

[Daisy]

The school says "voluntary" while the lawsuit says "forced" or "coerced".

 

[krypton iodine sulfur]

Should The allegations, if proven true, lead to criminal charges and if so, against whom?

What would the charges be? Unless there was some sexual misconduct, the fact that the procedure involved sexual organs is not particularly important. I don't think a penis or vagina are medically more precious and private than a liver or spleen when it come to diagnosing and treating maladies (though understandably there is some cultural and human sensitivity toward how we feel about these body parts). If it is a medically sound procedure, it is something physicians will have to practice on other people who will also likely not be too happy or comfortable with it, but it is for medicine and not sexual gratification or humiliation (wether it is for training or treatment).

Being threatened with lowered grades or being blacklisted for a voluntary activity is highly problematic, but the activity in question was something which falls reasonably within the scope of their field of study. The lawsuit may be appropriate, but I don't know what criminal charges would be laid. Ideally, I would think the students should have refused the procedure and worked with school administration to sort out the problem first, if they hadn't done so.

 

[laughing dog]

Maybe I'm missing something, but haven't medical students been doing tests on each other since the beginning? My ex BIL (an ER doctor) told me they usually performed diagnostic tests on each other, including some of the more embarrassing ones. I remember thinking at the time that I'm glad I never was interested in medicine as a career.

Read the cited article, and then comment.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Should The allegations, if proven true, lead to criminal charges and if so, against whom?

What would the charges be? Unless there was some sexual misconduct, the fact that the procedure involved sexual organs is not particularly important. I don't think a penis or vagina are medically more precious and private than a liver or spleen when it come to diagnosing and treating maladies (though understandably there is some cultural and human sensitivity toward how we feel about these body parts). If it is a medically sound procedure, it is something physicians will have to practice on other people who will also likely not be too happy or comfortable with it, but it is for medicine and not sexual gratification or humiliation (wether it is for training or treatment).

Being threatened with lowered grades or being blacklisted for a voluntary activity is highly problematic, but the activity in question was something which falls reasonably within the scope of their field of study. The lawsuit may be appropriate, but I don't know what criminal charges would be laid. Ideally, I would think the students should have refused the procedure and worked with school administration to sort out the problem first, if they hadn't done so.

Why not just advertise for volunteers or paid participants? Schools have been doing that for years. This ain't brand new.

Why make a student's grade or future career options depend on that student being penetrated in front of an audience if that makes that student uncomfortable?

 

[dismal]

Maybe I'm missing something, but haven't medical students been doing tests on each other since the beginning? My ex BIL (an ER doctor) told me they usually performed diagnostic tests on each other, including some of the more embarrassing ones. I remember thinking at the time that I'm glad I never was interested in medicine as a career.

It would seem to me that if you're squeamish about medical tests medical testing may be the wrong career choice. Medical professionals are supposed to have a clinical view about these sorts of things.

That said, if this is not a requirement or if the school does not disclose this requirement to potential students it would obviously be wrong to coercively subject students to it.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

When the students expressed concerns to program chair Barbara Ball, she told them "they could find another school if they did not wish to be probed," the suit says.

The students had no privacy, the suit goes on to say, claiming they had to take their clothes off in a restroom and then walk across the classroom to the sonography stations with a towel draped over them. Once they got to the stations, the situation only got worse, it said.

"In some cases, the student would have to sexually 'stimulate' Plaintiffs in order to facilitate inserting the probe into Plaintiffs' vaginas. Plaintiffs experienced discomfort and embarrassment each time they had to endure this forced probing of their sexual organs."

But the students claim they were told they needed to participate.

"The college's instructors retaliated against them by saying they would reduce their grades, they would blacklist them within the medical community, and they would not be able to get a job," Dillingham said.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...ge-forced-them-undergo-vaginal-probes-n361251

 

[fromderinside]

When the students expressed concerns to program chair Barbara Ball, she told them "they could find another school if they did not wish to be probed," the suit says.

The students had no privacy, the suit goes on to say, claiming they had to take their clothes off in a restroom and then walk across the classroom to the sonography stations with a towel draped over them. Once they got to the stations, the situation only got worse, it said.

"In some cases, the student would have to sexually 'stimulate' Plaintiffs in order to facilitate inserting the probe into Plaintiffs' vaginas. Plaintiffs experienced discomfort and embarrassment each time they had to endure this forced probing of their sexual organs."

But the students claim they were told they needed to participate.

"The college's instructors retaliated against them by saying they would reduce their grades, they would blacklist them within the medical community, and they would not be able to get a job," Dillingham said.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...ge-forced-them-undergo-vaginal-probes-n361251

Stanford 1967 in new clothes like the king.

 

[krypton iodine sulfur]

Why not just advertise for volunteers or paid participants? Schools have been doing that for years. This ain't brand new.

Why make a student's grade or future career options depend on that student being penetrated in front of an audience if that makes that student uncomfortable?

Why are you asking me? I wasn't advocating their policy. Can you please answer my question?

 

[NobleSavage]

My delayed reaction to this is if they are going to be preforming the test it might be a good idea for them to be required to experience it. Doctors and nurses should know what it's like to be on the other side.

 

[fromderinside]

My delayed reaction to this is if they are going to be preforming the test it might be a good idea for them to be required to experience it. Doctors and nurses should know what it's like to be on the other side.

Usually the test is conducted in a private room with only the technician and perhaps an appropriate sex nurse present. No walking across rooms or public self stimulation required. There is no training benefit for the public presentation process described.

 

[Bomb#20]

... Plaintiffs experienced discomfort and embarrassment each time they had to endure this forced probing of their sexual organs."

But the students claim they were told they needed to participate.

"The college's instructors retaliated against them by saying they would reduce their grades, they would blacklist them within the medical community, and they would not be able to get a job," Dillingham said.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...ge-forced-them-undergo-vaginal-probes-n361251

"Forced"? Now rapists are forcing their victims by telling them they need to participate, are they? The victims were threatened with grade reduction. Their future career prospects were at risk. Those are the classic signature of quid pro quo sexual harassment. Obviously a civil lawsuit is the appropriate remedy. Why on earth would any of that lead to a criminal complaint? What, are you going to file rape charges against a professor for telling an adult student she can have an A if she sleeps with him?

 

[whichphilosophy]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/18/us/orlando-college-sued-forced-vaginal-exams/





The school's answer

Carol Traynor, the public relations director for Valencia College, said the school has not been served with the lawsuit so would not be able to comment. However, with regard to Valencia's diagnostic medical sonography associate degree program, the college issued the following statement:

"The use of volunteers -- including fellow students -- for medical sonography training is a nationally accepted practice. Valencia College's sonography program has upheld the highest standards with respect to ultrasound scanning for educational purposes, including voluntary participation and professional supervision by faculty in a controlled laboratory setting. Nonetheless, we continue to review this practice and others to ensure that they are effective and appropriate for the learning environment."

Should The allegations, if proven true, lead to criminal charges and if so, against whom?

Medical colleges do use volunteers from the general public for practice providing they the public involved sign waivers.
The question is whether it is legal to use voluntary students for this. If it is legal was their consent received.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Why not just advertise for volunteers or paid participants? Schools have been doing that for years. This ain't brand new.

Why make a student's grade or future career options depend on that student being penetrated in front of an audience if that makes that student uncomfortable?

Why are you asking me? I wasn't advocating their policy. Can you please answer my question?

What would the charges be?

I don't know since I am not a attorney. But I would think some degree and combination of sexual harassment, sexual molestation, extortion, possibly A&B. Probably other things as well. Depends on what the prosecution strategy would be.

Then of course, what of the school? If the school permitted the practice, is the school civilly and possibly criminally responsible as well.

Now all of this is dependent on proving the plaintiffs' case or cases. If that doesn't happen, then ...

But I have a feeling you already knew that.

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/18/us/orlando-college-sued-forced-vaginal-exams/





The school's answer



Should The allegations, if proven true, lead to criminal charges and if so, against whom?

Medical colleges do use volunteers from the general public for practice providing they the public involved sign waivers.
The question is whether it is legal to use voluntary students for this. If it is legal was their consent received.

If consent was given, was it given under duress?

 

[fromderinside]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/18/us/orlando-college-sued-forced-vaginal-exams/





The school's answer



Should The allegations, if proven true, lead to criminal charges and if so, against whom?

Medical colleges do use volunteers from the general public for practice providing they the public involved sign waivers.
The question is whether it is legal to use voluntary students for this. If it is legal was their consent received.

That doesn't cut it. Procedure described is outside normal practice for demonstrations and studies at University. What was described has too many elements of Stanford study. Improper use of authority, humiliation, etc.

 

[Bronzeage]

Do male nurses have to stick Q-tips down their dick tubes to learn how to test for STDs?

No, but they fail anatomy if they use the term "dick tube."

I imagine when the facts are known, it will be found no one was actually forced to be an exam volunteer.

If it can be shown that a student's grade depend upon whether or not she volunteered to be an exam patient, the school will have a real problem, because that is coercion.

- - - Updated - - -

How do I sogn up for the class?

There is a summer Proctology Lab course.

 

[fromderinside]

- - - Updated - - -

How do I sogn up for the class?

There is a summer Proctology Lab course.

Sweet Sweetback - Shaft!