Students at Valencia College in Florida forced to undergo vaginal probes in classroom

[NobleSavage]

No, but they fail anatomy if they use the term "dick tube."

I do know of the term urethra, but dick tube is so much more fun to type.

 

[Derec]

There is a summer Proctology Lab course.

So not what I had in mind ...

 

[NobleSavage]

My delayed reaction to this is if they are going to be preforming the test it might be a good idea for them to be required to experience it. Doctors and nurses should know what it's like to be on the other side.

Usually the test is conducted in a private room with only the technician and perhaps an appropriate sex nurse present. No walking across rooms or public self stimulation required. There is no training benefit for the public presentation process described.

Why can't that be simulated in a test? One required volunteer, one student being tested, one proctor, and a private room. Isn't requiring an "appropriate sex nurse" sexist? What if the nurse is trans-hybrid-gender-confused?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

There is a summer Proctology Lab course.

So not what I had in mind ...

I think I'm going to sign up for that course. It would be nice to finally have a reason to be able to go up to women and ask if I can stick my finger up their ass without it sounding weird.

 

[Bronzeage]

There is a summer Proctology Lab course.

So not what I had in mind ...

It's the sort of thing that would be right up your alley.

 

[dismal]

If it can be shown that a student's grade depend upon whether or not she volunteered to be an exam patient, the school will have a real problem, because that is coercion.

I don't think so if it was disclosed beforehand that this would be part of the grade.

Assuming no one is being forced against their will to take the class or attend the school.

Of course it's also possible that the teachers went well beyond what the students could have reasonably expected when they agreed to take the class and consented to being graded in part on submitting to the exams.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

There is a summer Proctology Lab course.

So not what I had in mind ...

It's the sort of thing that would be right up your alley.

It will be up his something.

 

[krypton iodine sulfur]

I don't know since I am not a attorney. But I would think some degree and combination of sexual harassment, sexual molestation, extortion, possibly A&B. Probably other things as well. Depends on what the prosecution strategy would be.

Then my answer is no based on what I've heard thus far; criminal charges should not be on the table. There was some sexual harassment, I suppose. I don't know that inappropriate comments generally lead to criminal charges.

 

[Bronzeage]

If it can be shown that a student's grade depend upon whether or not she volunteered to be an exam patient, the school will have a real problem, because that is coercion.

I don't think so if it was disclosed beforehand that this would be part of the grade.

Assuming no one is being forced against their will to take the class or attend the school.

Of course it's also possible that the teachers went well beyond what the students could have reasonably expected when they agreed to take the class and consented to being graded in part on submitting to the exams.

No.
The grade awarded in a course reflects a students performance and mastery of the material. It is not compensation for being a classroom fixture. Disclosing that students are required to submit to a medical procedure before class starts does not change the nature of the exchange. If the class is a required credit for graduation, there is no choice.

As for no one being forced to attend the school, I doubt the application form includes a warning that students will be expected to submit to pelvic exams by fellow students. "Informed consent" requires information.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Maybe I'm missing something, but haven't medical students been doing tests on each other since the beginning? My ex BIL (an ER doctor) told me they usually performed diagnostic tests on each other, including some of the more embarrassing ones. I remember thinking at the time that I'm glad I never was interested in medicine as a career.

Yeah, this sounds a bit abusive but nowhere near as far over the line as it looks at first glance. This is also my understanding of medical training--there's a lot of practicing procedures on fellow students.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

My delayed reaction to this is if they are going to be preforming the test it might be a good idea for them to be required to experience it. Doctors and nurses should know what it's like to be on the other side.

Second this. To the extent practical I think all of the hands-on people should be required to be on the other end of invasive tests so they understand what their patients are going through. Without that I've seen too much disregard for patient's comfort. So few doctors care about things like cold instruments.

- - - Updated - - -

Usually the test is conducted in a private room with only the technician and perhaps an appropriate sex nurse present. No walking across rooms or public self stimulation required. There is no training benefit for the public presentation process described.

Why can't that be simulated in a test? One required volunteer, one student being tested, one proctor, and a private room. Isn't requiring an "appropriate sex nurse" sexist? What if the nurse is trans-hybrid-gender-confused?

Appropriate-sex nurse is actually a matter of protecting the doctor from false charges.

 

[dismal]

I don't think so if it was disclosed beforehand that this would be part of the grade.

Assuming no one is being forced against their will to take the class or attend the school.

Of course it's also possible that the teachers went well beyond what the students could have reasonably expected when they agreed to take the class and consented to being graded in part on submitting to the exams.

No.
The grade awarded in a course reflects a students performance and mastery of the material. It is not compensation for being a classroom fixture. Disclosing that students are required to submit to a medical procedure before class starts does not change the nature of the exchange. If the class is a required credit for graduation, there is no choice.

As for no one being forced to attend the school, I doubt the application form includes a warning that students will be expected to submit to pelvic exams by fellow students. "Informed consent" requires information.

You are aware this class is training people to give medical exams?

 

[krypton iodine sulfur]

Second this. To the extent practical I think all of the hands-on people should be required to be on the other end of invasive tests so they understand what their patients are going through. Without that I've seen too much disregard for patient's comfort. So few doctors care about things like cold instruments.

I'd have my doubts this is a particularly effective or reliable method to accomplish that goal. It also creates a gender discrepancy in cases such as these.

 

[RavenSky]

Second this. To the extent practical I think all of the hands-on people should be required to be on the other end of invasive tests so they understand what their patients are going through. Without that I've seen too much disregard for patient's comfort. So few doctors care about things like cold instruments.

I'd have my doubts this is a particularly effective or reliable method to accomplish that goal. It also creates a gender discrepancy in cases such as these.

^^^ that.

Was reading Loren's and NS's comments, and wondering how they expect a vaginal ultrasound should be performed on a man.

 

[Underseer]

Second this. To the extent practical I think all of the hands-on people should be required to be on the other end of invasive tests so they understand what their patients are going through. Without that I've seen too much disregard for patient's comfort. So few doctors care about things like cold instruments.

I'd have my doubts this is a particularly effective or reliable method to accomplish that goal. It also creates a gender discrepancy in cases such as these.

Uh uh uh!

If you complain about gender discrepancies like this, then you are "persecuting" men. Then we will have to listen to all the conservative/libertarian MRA nuts whine about how much they're being oppressed by "feminazis" and "political correctness."

 

[krypton iodine sulfur]

I'd have my doubts this is a particularly effective or reliable method to accomplish that goal. It also creates a gender discrepancy in cases such as these.

Uh uh uh!

If you complain about gender discrepancies like this, then you are "persecuting" men. Then we will have to listen to all the conservative/libertarian MRA nuts whine about how much they're being oppressed by "feminazis" and "political correctness."

As I have been led to believe, people who believe men are being persecuted are also always shouting that it's socially acceptable when done to men. It's possible the implication is that this is hypocritical and it shouldn't be that way, but I'm not a mind reader.

'Sides, across medicine as a whole, it would be a two-way street on the gender discrepancy issue.

 

[NobleSavage]

I'd have my doubts this is a particularly effective or reliable method to accomplish that goal. It also creates a gender discrepancy in cases such as these.

^^^ that.

Was reading Loren's and NS's comments, and wondering how they expect a vaginal ultrasound should be performed on a man.

My sister quit her corporate job after she had 2 kids to stay home. She is now thinking it would be fun to become an ultrasound tech when the kids are older. I'm going to guess this is a field that is 99% female? Anyhow, there is such a thing as a male pelvic ultrasound test (I have no idea how common they are). I figure there are enough invasive/embarrassing tests for both sexes to go around and in the case of med techs or nurses it's going to be the male that is the odd one out. Nurses are 90% female; I don't know the number for med techs.

 

[krypton iodine sulfur]

I figure there are enough invasive/embarrassing tests for both sexes to go around and in the case of med techs or nurses it's going to be the male that is the odd one out.

There are medical procedures specific to both male and female anatomy, and some specialities may skew more toward one gender over another. The point is (in my opinion) more that it is insignificant if a female doctor who performs prostate exams has never, herself, had her prostate examined. I don't think she needs to experience it directly to be competent or to learn how to do it in a way which minimizes discomfort for the patient. Same for a male ob/gyn. What Loren Pechtel was 'to the extent practical' so I am not directly contradicting that. I'm just saying there are probably much better ways of going about teaching prospective doctors how to minimize patient discomfort -- ways which don't preclude some from garnering experience base on their anatomy.

 

[fromderinside]

Second this. To the extent practical I think all of the hands-on people should be required to be on the other end of invasive tests so they understand what their patients are going through. Without that I've seen too much disregard for patient's comfort. So few doctors care about things like cold instruments.

- - - Updated - - -

Thank ewe.

Usually the test is conducted in a private room with only the technician and perhaps an appropriate sex nurse present. No walking across rooms or public self stimulation required. There is no training benefit for the public presentation process described.

Why can't that be simulated in a test? One required volunteer, one student being tested, one proctor, and a private room. Isn't requiring an "appropriate sex nurse" sexist? What if the nurse is trans-hybrid-gender-confused?

Appropriate-sex nurse is actually a matter of protecting the doctor from false charges.

Thank ewe

- - - Updated - - -

No.
The grade awarded in a course reflects a students performance and mastery of the material. It is not compensation for being a classroom fixture. Disclosing that students are required to submit to a medical procedure before class starts does not change the nature of the exchange. If the class is a required credit for graduation, there is no choice.

As for no one being forced to attend the school, I doubt the application form includes a warning that students will be expected to submit to pelvic exams by fellow students. "Informed consent" requires information.

You are aware this class is training people to give medical exams?

Stimulation so the probe can be used is a private matter best done in privacy by the testee without observation by others.

 

[fromderinside]

I'd have my doubts this is a particularly effective or reliable method to accomplish that goal. It also creates a gender discrepancy in cases such as these.

Uh uh uh!

If you complain about gender discrepancies like this, then you are "persecuting" men. Then we will have to listen to all the conservative/libertarian MRA nuts whine about how much they're being oppressed by "feminazis" and "political correctness."

Wow. then do it do it do it. if you can assure us men are also humiliated by a probe up their penis for assuring he has sperm required to make the fetus the girl is carrying. Fair is fair.