Sweden, Finland, and Ukraine joining NATO?

[barbos]

--

 

[barbos]

And if I am not mistaken alcohol consumption in Russia is slightly lower than in Finland, so shut up!

 

[tupac chopra]

Shouldn't you have to prove they are real? The problem is after it was shown that the USA lied about Iraq and lied about Syria they no longer have any credibility. the US government openly and deliberately lied about the Sarin gas in Syria

How did the US lie about sarin gas in Syria?

They claimed Assad was responsible.

If USA is lying, they would expose themselves to being caught redhanded

This is the concerning thing. The USA routinely lies and commits war crimes but is never called to account. The USA risks nothing it seems. The bulk of the US population does nothing and as we see on this forum supports the criminals.
It's vassal states support the lies.
This is why Putin is a threat. He calls the USA on it's bullshit.

 

[Ford]

Are you deflecting?

 

[Jayjay]

How did the US lie about sarin gas in Syria?

They claimed Assad was responsible.

Assad was responsible. The conspiracy theories to the contrary aren't convincing.

If USA is lying, they would expose themselves to being caught redhanded

This is the concerning thing. The USA routinely lies and commits war crimes but is never called to account. The USA risks nothing it seems. The bulk of the US population does nothing and as we see on this forum supports the criminals.
It's vassal states support the lies.
This is why Putin is a threat. He calls the USA on it's bullshit.

What the heck are you talking about? USA is calle to account all the time, but when is Russia going to come clean about shooting down the Malaysian airlines plane for example? When is Russia going to conduct investigation into its torture program like USA did? Not in a million years. That's why Russia can keep lying, it has solid control of the media in Russia and has plenty of willing accomplices in the West that will look the other way.

It's a bit ironic that you are accusing us of supporting "criminals" and in the same breath praise Bashar Assad.

 

[tupac chopra]

They claimed Assad was responsible.

Assad was responsible.

Just out of curiosity why do you think so?

What the heck are you talking about? USA is calle to account all the time, but when is Russia going to come clean about shooting down the Malaysian airlines plane for example?

A Ukrainian airforce person has already identified to Ukrainian pilot who shot down MH17. Did you know?
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/1...s-kiev-plane-shot-down-mh-17-full-transcript/

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Because sometimes US intelligence is wrong does not make it always wrong. Because sometimes the US engages in propaganda doesn't mean it always engages in propaganda.

US intelligence about IRAQ was correct. No Weapons of Mass Destruction. The problem was that those at the top didn't want that kind of intelligence.

In other words it always engages in propaganda. When the facts fit the narrative we are told about them, when the facts don't fit the narrative the intelligence officers are sent away to get the "correct" intelligence that fits the narrative.

No. We had conflicting intelligence.

The boots on the ground reported finding no meaningful WMD.

The spies, however, reported that Saddam was being told about successful efforts to hide WMD. The spies were correct--but what they were actually reporting on were lies being told to Saddam.

(We seriously overestimated the Russian economy for the same reason--the reports to Moscow were far more glowing than the reality.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/1...s-kiev-plane-shot-down-mh-17-full-transcript/

I took a look at their main page. The articles make it clear that's a crackpot site.

 

[tupac chopra]

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/1...s-kiev-plane-shot-down-mh-17-full-transcript/

I took a look at their main page. The articles make it clear that's a crackpot site.

The interview is on dozens of sites. But not on Fox News, which explains why you hadn't seen it.
Of course this will never be investigated...We have the phony investigation underway. The present investigation allows the Ukraine to veto anything from the report.

 

[bilby]

Assad was responsible.

Just out of curiosity why do you think so?

What the heck are you talking about? USA is calle to account all the time, but when is Russia going to come clean about shooting down the Malaysian airlines plane for example?

A Ukrainian airforce person has already identified to Ukrainian pilot who shot down MH17. Did you know?
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/1...s-kiev-plane-shot-down-mh-17-full-transcript/

Horseshit.

The forensic evidence from the damage to the airliner indicates that MH017 was downed by a surface launched missile. Unless the 'pilot' in question was crewing a BUK on the ground at the time, no pilot of any nationality was involved.

 

[tupac chopra]

Just out of curiosity why do you think so?

What the heck are you talking about? USA is calle to account all the time, but when is Russia going to come clean about shooting down the Malaysian airlines plane for example?

A Ukrainian airforce person has already identified to Ukrainian pilot who shot down MH17. Did you know?
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/1...s-kiev-plane-shot-down-mh-17-full-transcript/

Horseshit.

The forensic evidence from the damage to the airliner indicates that MH017 was downed by a surface launched missile. Unless the 'pilot' in question was crewing a BUK on the ground at the time, no pilot of any nationality was involved.

No it doesn't but feel free to produce this evidence.

Even the preliminary report doesn't say that. That's the report in which the Ukraine can veto anything it doesn't like.

But apparently you're some kind of expert who is able to say a BUK did it

 

[bilby]

Just out of curiosity why do you think so?

What the heck are you talking about? USA is calle to account all the time, but when is Russia going to come clean about shooting down the Malaysian airlines plane for example?

A Ukrainian airforce person has already identified to Ukrainian pilot who shot down MH17. Did you know?
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/1...s-kiev-plane-shot-down-mh-17-full-transcript/

Horseshit.

The forensic evidence from the damage to the airliner indicates that MH017 was downed by a surface launched missile. Unless the 'pilot' in question was crewing a BUK on the ground at the time, no pilot of any nationality was involved.

No it doesn't but feel free to produce this evidence.

Even the preliminary report doesn't say that. That's the report in which the Ukraine can veto anything it doesn't like.

But apparently you're some kind of expert who is able to say a BUK did it

Your amusement at this topic disgusts me. The people on that flight were real human beings, and your silly political games with their lives as pawns should cause you deep shame.

The evidence is clear; but as you are apparently some kind of expert who is able to say that a Ukrainian pilot did it on the basis of hearsay, there is no point in engaging in discussion with you, and I have no intention of doing so.

I merely point out that you are talking utter bollocks, just in case any third party reading this is mislead into accepting your FUD.

 

[tupac chopra]

The evidence is clear; .

Edited Stop bullshitting and explain your evidence.

I merely point out that you are talking utter bollocks, just in case any third party reading this is mislead into accepting your FUD.

Don't you think a third party wants to see your supposed evidence?
Just admit that you have no clear evidence and stop this charade

 

[bilby]

Don't you think a third party wants to see your supposed evidence?
Just admit that you have no clear evidence and stop this charade

...

... there is no point in engaging in discussion with you, and I have no intention of doing so.

 

[tupac chopra]

...

... there is no point in engaging in discussion with you, and I have no intention of doing so.

We know that on July 17 2014 Vladislav Voloshin flew from , Aviatorskoye in Dnepropetrovsk in an Su-25 armed with air to air missiles and that he shot down the MH17 and returned to base.
We know that the witnesses saw military planes in that area on that day at the time the plane was shot down.
We know that the USA had a satellite above at that time but is refusing to release the data.
We know the Russians picked up the military planes on their radar, and have been saying so from the start of this.

Foul deeds will rise, Though all the earth o'erwhelm them, to men's eyes...Hamlet

 

[Ford]

We know that on July 17 2014 Vladislav Voloshin flew from , Aviatorskoye in Dnepropetrovsk in an Su-25 armed with air to air missiles and that he shot down the MH17 and returned to base.

Source?


I mean if he shot it down...there's solid evidence that doesn't come from Moscow. Right?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The forensic evidence from the damage to the airliner indicates that MH017 was downed by a surface launched missile. Unless the 'pilot' in question was crewing a BUK on the ground at the time, no pilot of any nationality was involved.

How can we prove it was a surface launched missile? The damage clearly shows it was a radar-guided missile (a heat seeker would have gone for an engine, not the aircraft itself) but that says nothing about what launched the missile. It's not unusual for there to be considerable similarities between air-to-air missiles and surface-to-air missiles. (In fact, some surface-to-air missiles are air-to-air missiles with an extra rocket engine to get them up to the airspeed they need to operate.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

...

We know that on July 17 2014 Vladislav Voloshin flew from , Aviatorskoye in Dnepropetrovsk in an Su-25 armed with air to air missiles and that he shot down the MH17 and returned to base.
We know that the witnesses saw military planes in that area on that day at the time the plane was shot down.
We know that the USA had a satellite above at that time but is refusing to release the data.
We know the Russians picked up the military planes on their radar, and have been saying so from the start of this.

Foul deeds will rise, Though all the earth o'erwhelm them, to men's eyes...Hamlet

We know you have no understanding of the issue.

Su-25s can't carry radar-guided missiles--they don't have the avionics to fire them.

A heat seeker wouldn't have done the damage we saw.

The Su-25's gun wouldn't have done the damage we saw.

Thus it's not a Su-25.

Our not releasing the data says nothing--of course we wouldn't release the data. Those birds are meant to find strategic launches, we certainly aren't going to release data that tells Russia exactly how good their sensors are.

 

[angelo]

Whoever is to blame is not about to admit it. There's strong evidence Ukrainians shot it down with a Russian made missiles. Which side is responsible? That remains the unanswered question.

 

[Ford]

Whoever is to blame is not about to admit it. There's strong evidence Ukrainians shot it down with a Russian made missiles. Which side is responsible? That remains the unanswered question.

Excuse me, but is anyone else seeing the cognitive dissonance here?


I mean, you're claiming that the responsibility for the shoot-down is an "unanswered question" while at the same time placing the blame on the Ukrainians.