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Teen shot 7 times and killed by police officer - ruled "justified" of course

I saw a kid trying to get away after being tazed.

It's still amazing to me that in the course of a few seconds the officer manages to get beat nearly unconscious with the kid on top of him, pull his gun while nearly unconscious, misfire while nearly unconscious, clear his weapon while nearly unconscious and fire seven shots into the kid while nearly unconscious.

Again, all within about ten seconds.

Cop of the Year.

And heroically, call for an ambulance because he, himself was bleeding. I guess he knew he had killed the kid so an ambulance didn't need to hurry.

Although one was necessary.

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The video clearly shows the kid lunging at the officer and strike the officer with his arm/hand/fist. But you will probably ignore that in favor of attacking an argument I never made or some other red herring.

I watched it several times. It is not clear to me that the kid was lunging at the officer or that he struck the officer.
 
I saw a kid trying to get away after being tazed.

If that was true, then the kid made a fatal error. He should have ran in the opposite direction, away from the cop, not directly at him.

I guess being tazed can be a bit disorienting.

What is the officer's excuse?
 
I saw a kid trying to get away after being tazed.

If that was true, then the kid made a fatal error. He should have ran in the opposite direction, away from the cop, not directly at him.

I couldn't tell if the kid was running right at the officer or just trying to push off while heading in the other direction.

Either way, cops are not supposed to just shoot a fleeing person if that person doesn't pose a reasonable threat to the officer or other people.
 
Prosecutor's report

http://www.eatoncounty.org/images/D...ney/Press_Releases/Guilford_Press_Release.pdf

On page 7:

Deven's cell phone recorded a 13-14 second gap between the sound of the Taser deployment and him yelling "Ow!" and the first gun shot. The first three gunshots are heard immediately before Deven screams. The cell phone recorded four more shots in the next few seconds. All seven shots were fired in less than five seconds.

Sgt. Frost fires three shots, pauses then fires four more shots.

Jesus.
 
Pages 9 and 10 of the prosecutor's report detail Deven's injuries (in no particular order):

1) Head, close-near contact range, downward angle
2) Right chest, intermediate range, steeply downward angle
3) Upper belly, intermediate range, no angle mentioned
4) Left armpit, intermediate range, no angle mentioned
5) Left lower chest, intermediate range, downward angle
6) Right wrist, intermediate range, back to upward angle
7) Right forearm, intermediate range, upward angle

Someone is on top of you beating you and yet you manage to fire into his chest and head at downward angles.

How does that happen?
 
The video clearly shows the kid lunging at the officer and strike the officer with his arm/hand/fist. But you will probably ignore that in favor of attacking an argument I never made or some other red herring.

I notice that you snipped the question and then engaged in an ad hominem argument in lieu of providing objective evidence for your assertion. Perhaps you could address the question you snipped:
You already provided the timestamp in the thread when asked, right?
 
Pages 9 and 10 of the prosecutor's report detail Deven's injuries (in no particular order):

1) Head, close-near contact range, downward angle
2) Right chest, intermediate range, steeply downward angle
3) Upper belly, intermediate range, no angle mentioned
4) Left armpit, intermediate range, no angle mentioned
5) Left lower chest, intermediate range, downward angle
6) Right wrist, intermediate range, back to upward angle
7) Right forearm, intermediate range, upward angle

Someone is on top of you beating you and yet you manage to fire into his chest and head at downward angles.

How does that happen?

Maybe Deven was attacking his shins. It really hurts when someone is attacking your shins, you know.
 
Not quite. The cop never offered the boy a ticket. The boy was taking much too long to to provide his driver's licence, insurance and proof of registration. The boy then decided he wanted to record the interaction with the cop with his cell phone. The cop didn't like that and so he decided to escalate the situation in hopes of intimidating the kid into immediate compliance.

You can't write a ticket if identity isn't established. The non-cooperative nature of the situation means the cop had no way to establish his identity, thus it would escalate to an arrest for no license.
Or with a little patience it would "escalate" to explaining the situation again and waiting for the kid to provide the license.
As for the cell phone--recording wasn't a problem. The problem is he kept trying to tell someone on the other end things.
Which as we all know is illegal in the U.S. because in the U.S. there is no freedom of speech or association.:rolleyes:
4) Even then the kid was being totally stupid and resisted arrest. That's 6 months in the pokey.
He didn't resist arrest so much as react far too slowly to the officer's commands. When the officer kicks his phone out of his hand he says, "You can't do that." When the officer says, "You are under arrest." the boy says "You can't do that." The officer says "Get your hands behind your back!" The boy says, "But officer..." He didn't understand how he could be assaulted, have his personal property destroyed and be arrested in that situation. He didn't understand. But you call this resisting arrest.

Refusing to put your arms behind your back counts as resisting arrest.
He didn't refuse to put his arms behind his back. He didn't say, "NO!" or, "I won't put my arms behind my back, officer," or, "I am resisting arrest." He merely took more than two seconds to figure out what was going on.

I do agree the kid didn't understand the reality of the situation--but ignorance of the law is no excuse, certainly for a driver. Whether he was actually one of these sovereign citizen kooks or just fell victim to their garbage we probably will never know.

5) The cop attempted to tase him, it failed.
Well, the cop attempted to tase him for no good reason. And did so unsafely and improperly.

The tasing was proper--because he wouldn't put his arms behind his back.

And where's the evidence of unsafe or improper???
The tasing was for no good reason because the kid was no threat to anyone and had at no point demonstrated any aggression whatsoever. He was obeying the officer's commands until the officer tried to destroy his cell phone also for no good reason. This infact seems to cause the confusion that delays the kid from putting his arms behind his back.

The tasing was improper and unsafe because officer was nearly standing on the kid and he fired the taser downward at a range that was too close for optimal function of the weapon. He could have tased himself. The tasing did in fact fail because of the improper use of the weapon.
6) The kid attacked the cop and was winning the fight. Now we're up to 2 years in jail.
We have no evidence as to who was winning the fight. It's not even proven in the video that the kid ever actually made agressive contact with the officer. The officer might have just stumbled and fallen over surprised by the kid's swift recovery. But suppose the kid did attack the officer. Then the kid's reaction might have been an instinctual un-premeditate retaliation after being attacked without provocation.

The cop shot because he was losing.
Let me repeat myself.
We have no objective evidence as to who was winning the fight.
We have no objective evidence as to who was winning the fight.

7) The cop finally resorted to his gun.
That doesn't make it the next logical step. We have no evidence as to what other sort of options the officer had other than his firearm.

You just made my point--he had no other options.
No. There is a difference between having no evidence as to what sort of options you have and not having any other options.
It is the same difference between having no evidence as to the number of dwarf planets orbiting Alpha Centauri, and knowing Alpha Centauri has no dwarf planets orbiting it.
Should he have? Definitely--we have a pattern of the kid making incredibly stupid choices and escalating the situation at each turn. Should the cop bet his life that the kid won't decide to eliminate the only witness to his identity?
Should the kid bet his life that the officer who escalates the situation at every turn and attacks him without provocation isn't intending to execute him on the spot? Because that is exactly what the officer did. 7 shots. 7.

You're not rebutting this one.
You didn't rebut me either.
And one should expect the cops to escalate when one resists!
I still disagree that he was resisting. But you make a good point. We have come to expect cops to needlessly escalate situations to the point life and death. So the kid had every right to suspect he was about to be murdered by this officer and should have fought back as hard as he could in defense of his life as soon as it became clear the officer intended to hurt him. If anyone's motivations should be called into question here on general principal it is a police officer's.

Other than the cop losing the fistfight and having to use his gun everything played out as I would expect it to. Don't play roadside lawyer, don't attack the cops.
How about this for a moral to the story: Don't tolerate police officers driving illegally unsafe vehicles. Don't tolerate police officers useing entrapment to fabricate traffic stops. Don't tolerate police officers assaulting compliant non-aggressive and confused citizens.
 
Correct this to read, "The cop knew he was illegally blinding people on the road and was pulling over people warning him of his unsafe vehicle settings."
You do not know the headlights were illegal or unsafe. You only know several people mistook them for high beams, but unless the police somehow modified them (for which there is no evidence nor even any reason why they would want to do it), I do not see how they can possibly be illegal.
I posted the relevant state law. The law forbids glaring beams that hit the eyes of oncoming drivers. As I replied to you in a seperate post, the beams do not need to be hi-beams to be illegal.

Personally I don't think the police did modify them. I think Sgt. Frost was driving a new police cruiser that had headlights miscalibrated. The dealership or more likely, the manufacturer is likely the culprit there. But after three people tell you that your headlights are blinding them it is your fault for not realizing that you are driving an illegally unsafe vehicle at night.

Now if the police DID decide to deliberately misalign the headlights on their cruisers the reason for that is obvious as I have already suggested it to you. They may have wanted to entrap innocent motorists ignorant of the law in Wisconsin forbidding courtesy flashes. More traffic stops mean more tickets, more civil forfeiture, more local revenue from fines, more police reports and quotas filled. That is plenty of motivation.
 
But this part of the story was interesting.

http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/.../16/press-conference-eaton-guilford/28801761/

Lloyd said Guilford got off the ground and the altercation ended in a snow-filled ditch, where Guilford was able to get on top of Frost and was hitting him in the face. There is no video of the final moments. Frost's body camera came off during the fight and his SUV had no dash camera; Guilford's cell phone remained on the pavement, recording audio of the shots but no video of the shooting.

Lloyd said Frost could feel blood in his mouth and felt he was about to lose consciousness before he removed his gun from the holster. Lloyd said Frost's gun did not fire at first, but he ejected an unfired round, chambered a new round and fired seven shots at close range in four seconds, all of which struck Guilford.

I'd like to know how a guy supposedly about to lose consciousness, on his back, with someone sitting on top of him is able to get his pistol out of the holster, misfire it, clear it and chamber a new round.

That's pretty impressive.

Did the cop pull a Zimmerman? :rolleyes:
 
You see the camera jerk all over the place. You don't see much of the assault because of this--the scene is badly motion-blurred but given what lead up to it there's no reason for this other than the kid attacking. Furthermore, nothing up until that point would have injured the cop but he was injured--it must have happened then.

Really. No other possible explanation such as the officer tripping and injuring himself. Or tazing himself. Or a lot of other scenarios. We don't know because there is no video evidence. The last thing you hear is the kid screaming in pain. We have only the officer's word because conveniently, the only other witness is dead.

Obviously he was attacked by a Yeti!

You don't trip while already on the ground.

It's pretty hard to tase yourself and if you did it would cut out because you would end up releasing the trigger.

We have clear video up to the point he fired the taser, then it's a mess and a couple seconds later he's injured and the kid is dead. By far the most reasonable scenario here is the kid attacked but you don't want to believe a 17 year old could have done that so you stick your head in the sand and dream up crazy scenarios.
 
Playing the discrimination card now?

The reason I deemed your argument emotional is that it was an appeal to emotions rather than addressing the facts of the case--you're utterly ignoring the repeated escalations the kid engaged in that were what drove this incident.
No. But nice try at a second refusal to addtess my post and instead foist your own emotional agenda on me.

I addressed the facts of the case . The officer escalated by not being able to properly conduct a traffic stop, by losing his cool, by yanking a kid put of his car, by tasing the kid. The officer had already called for back up. Why not wait? The kid was sitting passively in his car until yanked out by the police officer.
What the kid did was to have the temerity to question why he was being stopped. The police officer was clearly irritated because it was the third time someone had flashed their brights at him, but that was hardly the fault of the kid. The kid was trying to be helpful. The officer acted put of cumulative frustration--he acted out of emotion instead of reason which would have told him to have his headlights adjusted.

I don't see the cop losing his cool and the kid was not sitting passively--the trigger incident for deciding to arrest seems to have been what he was doing with the phone despite being told to leave it alone. The kid was spouting sovereign citizen garbage, his use of the phone could be an attempt to summon help. (As in violent help.)

The cop's escalations aren't one bit out of line, he was responding to what the kid did. The kid, however, kept escalating the situation rather than simply accept his ticket like a driver should.
 
I saw a kid trying to get away after being tazed.

Most of these cases involve someone trying to get away--it's just they don't care if they hurt the officer in their escape attempt. The officer responds to the very real threat even though that isn't the person's objective.

It's still amazing to me that in the course of a few seconds the officer manages to get beat nearly unconscious with the kid on top of him, pull his gun while nearly unconscious, misfire while nearly unconscious, clear his weapon while nearly unconscious and fire seven shots into the kid while nearly unconscious.

Again, all within about ten seconds.

Cop of the Year.

All his actions are things he's practiced many, many times. It's no wonder he could do them properly in the situation.

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I saw a kid trying to get away after being tazed.

If that was true, then the kid made a fatal error. He should have ran in the opposite direction, away from the cop, not directly at him.

What in the world are you talking about? This isn't the football player case where he charged the cop.
 
Pages 9 and 10 of the prosecutor's report detail Deven's injuries (in no particular order):

1) Head, close-near contact range, downward angle
2) Right chest, intermediate range, steeply downward angle
3) Upper belly, intermediate range, no angle mentioned
4) Left armpit, intermediate range, no angle mentioned
5) Left lower chest, intermediate range, downward angle
6) Right wrist, intermediate range, back to upward angle
7) Right forearm, intermediate range, upward angle

Someone is on top of you beating you and yet you manage to fire into his chest and head at downward angles.

How does that happen?

Could be if the kid were attacking his chest. Round #1 was probably the last one, fired as he collapsed.
 
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