Tennessee Fucks Up

[thebeave]

As to the actual thread topic, if she has major brain damage, impending organ failure or needs hospice, just give her her freedom at that point. Her life is gone and she is not a danger to society under those or similar scenarios. She committed a murder when she was 18, some 32 years ago. What point is there to punish her more than taking the functionality from her life after 30+ years of prison?

Its kind of a tough call as to what to do with her from here on. Third time's a charm? Or maybe someone will "accidentally" trip on the power cord for her life support machines, pulling out the plug.

 

[Emily Lake]

Medical professionals are prohibited from participating. But I wonder if a retired phlebotomist might be willing to do the job if paid enough. Might get a retired nurse too, or even a retired anesthesiologist. Not sure if that would work. But there’s bound to be some in the state that think it’s a good idea to execute murderers. I also don’t understand why the states that have the death penalty don’t have an organization to both manufacture and with trained personnel administer the lethal cocktails.

Hire a junkie, they don't miss.

But that would be unclean, and might risk an infection...

 

[Emily Lake]

IMHO, we are long past the time when we should pretend that the death penalty is civilized and effective

Depends on whether you think the death penalty is intended as a punishment for the condemned, or as a service that removes a dangerous predator from society. We don't generally think it's uncivilized and ineffective to kill a tiger or a bear or any other large predator (or moose, AK) that has been injuring and killing people or livestock. It's not done to punish the predator, but to protect the rest.

 

[Emily Lake]

You are much better at killing others with guns than with any other method or implement.

Maybe if we used a firing squad or public hanging people would feel differently about capital punishment.

With a firing squad perhaps they would get it right the 1st time?

Minor aside, because I find it interesting. In a firing squad, it's multiple guys with rifles but only one real bullet - the rest are blanks. It allows for the execution of the condemned without any of the men on the firing squad taking on the burden of knowing they killed someone. There's a possibility that any of them could have been the one with the lethal shot, but a higher possibility that each was not. It allows the assumed guilt to be mitigated somewhat.

 

[Shadowy Man]

I’m skeptical. Seems to me that Albert Pierrepoint is the only competent executioner. Quick and easy. His tables could easily be done. If we’re going to kill these folks, just follow his method. Executions were set for 8:00 a.m. By 8:01, you were at the pearly gates.

If you required being executed you probably weren’t headed to the pearly gates.

*checks notebook*

Umm... this is a disputed claim.

Yep. IIRC, all you have to do is accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior on your death bed (or chair) and you can walk through those pearly gates.

Then wouldn’t it be wrong to execute a saved person who is worthy of heaven?

 

[Emily Lake]

This is cracking me up. Every time I read 'pearly gates' my mind sees the sex position(s).

That's not one I'm familiar with... but I'm not going to google it. You can't unsee some things.

 

[Emily Lake]

I think there should be a Constitutional amendment that after an execution attempt by authorities, the victim goes free.

Umm... I'm not really sold on turning the serial killer loose if the executioner fucks up. Seems kind of reckless and negligent to me.

 

[Emily Lake]

Gunfights don't tend to kill instantly either, let alone painlessly.

I mean... a .308 to center mass at close range is pretty instant. If they feel pain, it's going to last for such a brief portion of a second that it won't even really register.

ETA: Assuming the shot doesn't miss, of course.

 

[brewer]

But that would be unclean, and might risk an infection...

 

[Bomb#20]

Have you Yanks not learned yet?
You are much better at killing others with guns than with any other method or implement.

Maybe if we used a firing squad or public hanging people would feel differently about capital punishment.

With a firing squad perhaps they would get it right the 1st time?

Don't count on it.

"Mikal Deen Mahdi[a] (March 20, 1983 – April 11, 2025) was an American convicted spree killer who was executed for the murder of a police officer in South Carolina. Over a period of three days in July 2004, Mahdi, then a resident of Virginia, went on a multistate crime spree, committing carjacking, firearm robbery, and three murders ...

An autopsy of Mahdi’s body revealed that of the three shots fired, only two impacted him, and neither of them hit his heart. Medical experts said that this is why Mahdi screamed when he was shot, and why he remained conscious for over a minute afterward. ..."​

Mikal Mahdi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ideologyhunter]

IMHO, we are long past the time when we should pretend that the death penalty is civilized and effective

Depends on whether you think the death penalty is intended as a punishment for the condemned, or as a service that removes a dangerous predator from society.

Tex Watson, Gary Ridgeway, and Dennis Rader are just three heartless murderers who we've locked away for good. The thing about life without parole is that we will leave open the possibility that a convicted murderer is innocent.
This is why Gov. Ryan of Illinois closed down the state's capital punishment process. College students (with the Innocence Project at Northwestern) had found convincing exculpatory evidence that freed condemned inmates in the state. Since then there have been numerous instances of unjustly convicted people. As just a sample, there were horrible scandals in W VA, Colorado, Austin TX and Houston TX when DNA lab directors were shown to have sent in fraudulent data that affected literally thousands of cases, both capital and non-capital.
The exonerees I met and got a chance to talk with were on Death Row for some regrettably common reasons:

> one man was accused by the actual killer; the police, eager to close a case, used the false testimony to put him on Death Row
> one man was convicted in Florida on eyewitness testimony, but it turned out that the witnesses' original descriptions were nothing like their courtroom IDs
> one man was released after it was discovered that prosecutors had concealed major findings that pointed to a different suspect

If a college professor can lead students to discover evidence that leads to multiple convictions being overturned -- at least 20 people have been freed from Death Row by the Innocence Project -- that alone cinches it for me.

 

[southernhybrid]

I've often thought that if a person is convicted of a horrible murders and the evidence is overwhelming, give them the choice of life in prison or the death penalty. A lot of us would prefer death but the majority of those given the death sentence try to get an appeal.

Based on all the news etc. I've read, I've had the impression that a majority of people prefer being in prison to being dead. I would likely prefer death, but the reason so many are on death row for so long is because they keep appealing the conviction regardless if they are guilty or not.

I'm also well aware that a lot people, mostly minority males, have been falsely convicted and sometimes their conviction is over turned before it's too late. Racism is alive and well in our justice system, among other areas.

 

[southernhybrid]

https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/report...-whites-risk-even-greater-if-victim-was-white

Black people are about 7½ times more likely to be wrongfully convicted of murder in the U.S. than are whites, and about 80% more likely to be innocent than others convicted of murder, according to a new report by the National Registry of Exonerations. The already disproportionate risk of wrongful conviction, the Registry found, was even worse if the murder victim in a case was white.

The report, Race and Wrongful Convictions in the United States 2022, reviewed the cases of 3,200 innocent defendants exonerated in the United States since 1989. Black people, the researchers found, were 7 times more likely to be wrongfully convicted, were more likely to be the targets of police misconduct, and more likely to be imprisoned longer before being exonerated.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/report...-whites-risk-even-greater-if-victim-was-white

Black people are about 7½ times more likely to be wrongfully convicted of murder in the U.S. than are whites, and about 80% more likely to be innocent than others convicted of murder, according to a new report by the National Registry of Exonerations. The already disproportionate risk of wrongful conviction, the Registry found, was even worse if the murder victim in a case was white.

The report, Race and Wrongful Convictions in the United States 2022, reviewed the cases of 3,200 innocent defendants exonerated in the United States since 1989. Black people, the researchers found, were 7 times more likely to be wrongfully convicted, were more likely to be the targets of police misconduct, and more likely to be imprisoned longer before being exonerated.

That's just going to be dismissed by the anti-woke crowd as "woke propaganda".

 

[RVonse]

I think there should be a Constitutional amendment that after an execution attempt by authorities, the victim goes free.

Umm... I'm not really sold on turning the serial killer loose if the executioner fucks up. Seems kind of reckless and negligent to me.

I agree with you here Laughing Dog goes too far. Although for the most part I also agree with those who want to abolish the death penalty. And just being against the death penalty does not or should not mean you are for murder or other bad capital type of crimes.

Abolishing the death penalty makes sense strictly by reviewing the probabilities. Because escape from prison is a much lower probability than our legal system making a bad verdict. It is also better to protect the innocent even if that means some guilty people go free. Then there is the paradox that Tennessee finds itself in today. Attempting to save the life of a botched executing so that they will try to execute her again. It is almost as though the government wants to waste tax payer money.

The libertarian view of punishment that makes the most sense to me. Forget about payment to society, punish the guilty by making them restore the victim and or their families. And if they don't want to pay or can't pay, then they have to sell off a kidney or part of their liver. Turns out that a good organ is worth a lot of money. That is still better than killing them (like we do today) and it gives the victim more justice IMO.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I think there should be a Constitutional amendment that after an execution attempt by authorities, the victim goes free.

Umm... I'm not really sold on turning the serial killer loose if the executioner fucks up. Seems kind of reckless and negligent to me.

I agree with you here Laughing Dog goes too far.

Does it? If an execution fails and guilty person goes free, you don't think this would force states to have executions that will never fail?

Abolishing the death penalty makes sense strictly by reviewing the probabilities. Because escape from prison is a much lower probability than our legal system making a bad verdict. It is also better to protect the innocent even if that means some guilty people go free. Then there is the paradox that Tennessee finds itself in today. Attempting to save the life of a botched executing so that they will try to execute her again. It is almost as though the government wants to waste tax payer money.

Yes... money is what came to my mind first. Not the ethics, not the judicial issues of people more likely to be sentenced to death for killing a white woman, but money. You got your eye on the ball there!

The libertarian view of punishment that makes the most sense to me. Forget about payment to society, punish the guilty by making them restore the victim and or their families. And if they don't want to pay or can't pay, then they have to sell off a kidney or part of their liver. Turns out that a good organ is worth a lot of money. That is still better than killing them (like we do today) and it gives the victim more justice IMO.

BWAHAHAHAHA! Yeah, that makes so much sense. Your votes for Trump really sync well with the rationality you have displayed above.

 

[laughing dog]

I think there should be a Constitutional amendment that after an execution attempt by authorities, the victim goes free.

Umm... I'm not really sold on turning the serial killer loose if the executioner fucks up. Seems kind of reckless and negligent to me.

Sorta like botching an execution. If the state cannot get executions right on one try, then maybe the state shouldn’t be executing people.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I think there should be a Constitutional amendment that after an execution attempt by authorities, the victim goes free.

Umm... I'm not really sold on turning the serial killer loose if the executioner fucks up. Seems kind of reckless and negligent to me.

Sorta like botching an execution. If the state cannot get executions right on one try, then maybe the state shouldn’t be executing people.

Oh, like you've never made a mistake.

 

[Bomb#20]

I think there should be a Constitutional amendment that after an execution attempt by authorities, the victim goes free.

That's not going to have any effect, since the victim is already dead.

 

[laughing dog]

I think there should be a Constitutional amendment that after an execution attempt by authorities, the victim goes free.

That's not going to have any effect, since the victim is already dead.

Usually true, but not in the case of Ms Pike who is a victim of a botched execution.