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Terrorists take over Bay Bridge, falsely imprison commuters

See bolded part that you seemed to have failed to grasp…about why I responded the way I did. Or if you did get it, you didn't seem to get the part that I'm not interested in word games...

Then is seems odd you chose to pick on my rather conventional use of the word "harm" instead of simply recognizing people were harmed and dealing with it like a non-sociopath.
Where did I pick on your use of the word "harm"? I told you why I responded the way I did with my answer in post #23 about your questioning in post #19. I didn’t tell you that your usage was somehow incorrect…

Oh, and did I miss that Sesame Street's word of the day is: sociopath?


Derec, please feel free to consider this post as response to your word game salad…
 
Deliberate criminal action.
Just like there is a big difference whether a wildfire starts due to an accident, from natural causes or due to arson.

Really? You are more dead if you die in a fire caused by arson than by lightening strike? Your house is more burned up?

They all did.

Please tell me which and support your assertion with quotes.
 
I have said time and again that I place no weight on semantic arguments. While yes, according to your dictionary definition, you could call being delayed 'harm.' However, my point is that the delay is so trivial, and so commonplace, that any mature person would disregard it. I don't argue semantics because only losers do. The idea that you are harmed by a delay is true in a trivial way, and that is enough for you, but not for me. Frankly, what's really being harmed is your ego. You think you are too important to be bothered by other people's problems. This is why the 'harm' is not objective. I am not troubled by delays caused by protests. You are. Thus, the problem lies within you. Or me, from a different perspective.

Let us make an analogy: If a delay caused by protesters 'harms' you, then so too must a similar delay caused by the efforts of a rescue crew to save people injured in an accident (and we have all been delayed by that). Do you rage at the rescue crew for 'harming' you? No you do not. You might say that the injuries suffered by the people involve in the accident might justify the delay to you, and you would be perfectly correct. Now. We have a problem in the United States in that one portion of the population is unfairly harmed by the other portion. If a rescue effort meant to alleviate actual harm to an injured person is enough to justify your largely imaginary 'harm' from delay, why should a protest against actual harm, with the aim of rectifying the problem, not similarly justify it?

How would you feel if you missed a flight to your mother's/child's funeral because of protests like the one on the Bay Bridge. Would you feel you were harmed? Particularly, if it was due to a cause you didn't belieive in, say, anti-abortion.
 
How would you feel if you missed a flight to your mother's/child's funeral because of protests like the one on the Bay Bridge. Would you feel you were harmed? Particularly, if it was due to a cause you didn't belieive in, say, anti-abortion.

I'd be pissed off. Doesn't mean I'd want the government to force the protesters their rights to publically express themselves in order to avoid my being pissed off, though. My experiencing these negative feelings would be the lesser of the two evils in that case.
 
I see part of problem as a vulnerable transpiration system.A good mass trans system would be less vulnerable.What is the average speed of a commute in Atlanta?
 
How would you feel if you missed a flight to your mother's/child's funeral because of protests like the one on the Bay Bridge. Would you feel you were harmed? Particularly, if it was due to a cause you didn't belieive in, say, anti-abortion.

I'd be pissed off. Doesn't mean I'd want the government to force the protesters their rights to publically express themselves in order to avoid my being pissed off, though. My experiencing these negative feelings would be the lesser of the two evils in that case.

You do not have the right to publicly express yourself on the Bay Bridge. It is a crime to do so.
 
How would you feel if you missed a flight to your mother's/child's funeral because of protests like the one on the Bay Bridge. Would you feel you were harmed? Particularly, if it was due to a cause you didn't belieive in, say, anti-abortion.

I'd be pissed off. Doesn't mean I'd want the government to force the protesters their rights to publically express themselves in order to avoid my being pissed off, though. My experiencing these negative feelings would be the lesser of the two evils in that case.

They can protest all they want. Just go do it at a public park or plan a march in advance in a less busy place so other people can go about their business. I live in this area, and watched the news about this last night. All the drivers were pissed and annoyed, even the black ones. These protesters are not helping their cause...its making everyone hate them with their selfishness and self-righteousness.

Think of the old line from Star Trek. Wrath of Khan. To quote Mr. Spock, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few (or the one)." Good words to live by.
 
thebeave said:
How would you feel if you missed a flight to your mother's/child's funeral because of protests like the one on the Bay Bridge. Would you feel you were harmed? Particularly, if it was due to a cause you didn't belieive in, say, anti-abortion.

Given that I am an atheist, and put no weight upon such empty rituals, I would say that I would not feel harmed by being prevented from going to a funeral. Again, I have stated that I do and would support protests I don't agree with, giving as an example the Oregon clowns if they had protested in a way that is consistent with the public interest.

Also, I really don't give a damn at people 'who don't agree' that police abuse and miscarriage of justice is a problem. Being a white guy, I am not directly harmed by these things myself, yet I see it as a problem deserving of protest and action. So there goes your insinuations of bias.

You see, I find it absurd that people talk about 'feeling harmed' as if it were the same as actually being harmed. Feeling harmed by a delay is one thing. Being shot because of your skin color is another. Holding up traffic is one thing, damaging public property is another. Reasonable, mature people have no difficulty distinguishing these things. What is the irritation of being delayed in traffic, compared with the fear of being shot with impunity by a racist? Nothing. If we expect people to respect our rights, we must respect theirs. These legitimate protests are irritating reminders that our own actions and negligence have undermined the implied social contract. If you are so empty and immoral as to 'not agree' that the problem with our justice system needs solving for the sake of right, perhaps you can be annoyed into letting it be solved by irritating protests.
 
Hmm.


Arrested. Last less than a couple hours. No plea for snacks. No fences were harmed. Unarmed.

I'm not certain, but I think one of the things above is what differentiates civil disobedience with terrorism. Might be the snack part.

I think both should be arrested and charged with felonies (the #BLMers are only charged with misdemeanors and you know Soros et al will pay for all their fines anyway).
But the big difference is that the Malheur refuge is in the middle of nowhere whereas the #BLM cretins blocked a busy highway bridge and prevented thousands of people from moving.

And as far as asking for snacks, 4th precinct shutdown people were asking for food, firewood etc.

I don't think the BLM garbage rises to the level of a felony.
 
Every successful social movement that uses protest gets in peoples way. If they don't, they get ignored.

All the ones that are now thought of as being honorable and successful annoyed the hell out of people in their era.

To treat BLM protestors as any different, or apply the label of terrorists for unarmed people committing the crime of mass jay walking (or whatever) is ridiculous. Using a harm based ethical complaint is, likewise, ridiculous without putting it completely in a utilitarian ethical framework to see whether the harm is justified. This can be best seen in the example given of "what if it was a rescue crew who caused the delay? would you complain then?"

Basically, we can grant that you were "harmed" in a rather esoteric fashion, but granting that doesn't mean much without other legwork
 
To treat BLM protestors as any different, or apply the label of terrorists for unarmed people committing the crime of mass jay walking (or whatever) is ridiculous. Using a harm based ethical complaint is, likewise, ridiculous without putting it completely in a utilitarian ethical framework to see whether the harm is justified. This can be best seen in the example given of "what if it was a rescue crew who caused the delay? would you complain then?"

OK, put it into a utilitarian ethical framework that explains what right they have to harm the interests of thousands of people who are trying to get somewhere on roads that democratic society has created for that purpose.
 
Black Lives Matters Demonstrators Block Bay Bridge; Dozens Arrested

These idiots claim the legacy of Martin Luther King. I do not recall MLK Jr. ever blocking any interstate highways. :rolleyes:

Oh and by the way, it is not OT in this thread to discuss similarities between #BLM idiots and Occupy Oregon idiots.

I thought you were a young fella? You surely don't remember Dr. King at all. Your history does seem confused. Eisenhower signed legislation which began the interstate system in 1956 but there weren't many interstate highways in existence in 1965.

In any case:

Selma, 1965:

View attachment 5434

You beat me to it!!! MLK did indeed disrupt traffic, especially over the Edmund Pettis Bridge. Of course the Klan did too, but they did it by killing people on the highways. That's what terrorists really do.

Although maybe the difference is snack requests as Jimmy pointed out.

:rolleyes:

SLD
 
There can certainly be a level of harm from closing a bridge. The harm isn't very substantive though. And to try and place an equivalency of a temporary road block with the seizure of Federal property by heavily armed people is ridiculous.
 
There can certainly be a level of harm from closing a bridge. The harm isn't very substantive though. And to try and place an equivalency of a temporary road block with the seizure of Federal property by heavily armed people is ridiculous.

Really? I would have thought more people used the San Francisco Bay Bridge than the Malheur Wildlife Refuge.

And in any case I'm sure this "all protests that are later deemed awesome cause some level of inconvenience" would also apply to the Malheur Wildlife Refuge wouldn't it?
 
And in any case I'm sure this "all protests that are later deemed awesome cause some level of inconvenience" would also apply to the Malheur Wildlife Refuge wouldn't it?
If you are dumb enough to believe it.

No, I am not dumb enough to believe that if Black Lives Matter took over the Malheur Wildlife Refuge people would drop the absurd lines of defense and the tone here would be one of outrage.
 
And in any case I'm sure this "all protests that are later deemed awesome cause some level of inconvenience" would also apply to the Malheur Wildlife Refuge wouldn't it?
If you are dumb enough to believe it.
That'd be pretty dumb. The Malheur case is one of insurrection and seizing of government property.

And oddly enough, the alleged reason, to protest the extended prison sentences of the two people there is no where to be heard.

- - - Updated - - -

And in any case I'm sure this "all protests that are later deemed awesome cause some level of inconvenience" would also apply to the Malheur Wildlife Refuge wouldn't it?
If you are dumb enough to believe it.
That'd be pretty dumb. The Malheur case is one of insurrection and seizing of government property.

And oddly enough, the alleged reason, to protest the extended prison sentences of the two people there is no where to be heard.
 
There can certainly be a level of harm from closing a bridge. The harm isn't very substantive though. And to try and place an equivalency of a temporary road block with the seizure of Federal property by heavily armed people is ridiculous.

Really? I would have thought more people used the San Francisco Bay Bridge than the Malheur Wildlife Refuge.

And in any case I'm sure this "all protests that are later deemed awesome cause some level of inconvenience" would also apply to the Malheur Wildlife Refuge wouldn't it?

Maybe. But as far as I know, none of the BLM protesters are armed, and they occupied the bridge for some hours, not days into weeks. I do think that the lack of firearms, length of time and the number of snack requests set it apart from Bundy's bunch.
 
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