Texas in Crisis

[barbos]

I find that hard to believe. Maybe near house, but not main pipes. You can easily damage it by driving over it or doing yard work.
Regardless, 6 inches is deep enough to not freeze in one week of slightly subzero temperature. And main pipes are plastic anyway.
It's clear that second floor copper piping froze up and burst in these videos. Main valve is fine. This is stupid. Whole houses collapse because they did not know that water supply should be cut off.

So many assumptions...

Which one? Here -30-40C happens but soil gets frozen maximum to 50cm. Of course, snow cover insulates it, but still, it takes time and really low temperature to get it to freeze.

 

[Jarhyn]

I find that hard to believe. Maybe near house, but not main pipes. You can easily damage it by driving over it or doing yard work.
Regardless, 6 inches is deep enough to not freeze in one week of slightly subzero temperature. And main pipes are plastic anyway.
It's clear that second floor copper piping froze up and burst in these videos. Main valve is fine. This is stupid. Whole houses collapse because they did not know that water supply should be cut off.

So many assumptions...

I know, right? The fact is, people in texas get away with bloody murder when it comes to shunning regulations and best practices.

Barbos pretty much every stupid thing you can imagine will be happening, from mains to valves to pipes, it's all going to have many instances of being done wrong and exploding

 

[barbos]

Well, maybe this shit is not really common. Just few cases which got publicity.

 

[Jarhyn]

Well, maybe this shit is not really common. Just few cases which got publicity.

The issue is that it IS common because it's been able to go on so long without clear issues. This is a million "did it wrong" time bombs all going off at the same time, built up over the course of over a century. Even if it were only every tenth house getting issues with burst second-story pipes, even if it were only every tenth neighborhood with a fucked main, even if it were only a tenth of cities, that means a whole tenth is triple fucked, a tenth of the ones who aren't triple fucked are still double-fucked, and a tenth of those not double-fucked are still just normal fucked.

The ones who aren't even fucked on water are still potentially fucked for either water or heat, in differing ways.

And it is widespread.

Every community is having to pay the price for this. And the "just a few" seems a lot like victim blaming or even just writing people off. The majority probably don't even know what corners had been cut for them before they ever had a chance to know.

 

[Elixir]

"Universal Texas Electric Reliability and Utility System"

Unfortunately I didn't think that up...

 

[ZiprHead]

We just had a water main burst here. It was along a major six lane road in a high commerce area. Some poor guy hit the ice that formed almost immediately and lost control of his p/u truck and took out a utility pole holding up the intersection signals. So it does happen in places where they are prepared for it.

And I highly doubt water mains never break in Russia.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It can't be frozen.

Water pipes in Texas are six inches down. It's all they needed for the last 200 years.

I find that hard to believe.

What you are willing to believe isn't all too relevant.

Maybe near house, but not main pipes. You can easily damage it by driving over it or doing yard work.
Regardless, 6 inches is deep enough to not freeze in one week of slightly subzero temperature.

Generally water pipes are prone to fail at its point of greatest weakness. It doesn't all need to freeze, just one part... like say where a valve is located.

And main pipes are plastic anyway.

You do realize that our infrastructure wasn't built in 2010, right? While new construction involves PVC, it hasn't always been PVC. Water lines in the US are made of all sorts of materials, including lead.

It's clear that second floor copper piping froze up and burst in these videos. Main valve is fine. This is stupid. Whole houses collapse because they did not know that water supply should be cut off.

It all depends on where the valves are located.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

We just had a water main burst here. It was along a major six lane road in a high commerce area. Some poor guy hit the ice that formed almost immediately and lost control of his p/u truck and took out a utility pole holding up the intersection signals. So it does happen in places where they are prepared for it.

And I highly doubt water mains never break in Russia.

We don't need freezing weather in US cities for water mains to burst. A lot of our water mains are on the verge of failure just from old age.

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[Deepak]

Well, maybe this shit is not really common. Just few cases which got publicity.

I’ve been there for business multiple times. Their construction standard is like Kowloon Walled City with stucco and they’re proud of it.

 

[Swammerdami]

I see misinformation in the thread. Texas' failure to join its grid to those of other states was NOT about simplicity or efficiency. It was about avoiding federal regulation, and thereby keeping for-profit power companies donating to political coffers. Had they complied with federal regulations, their carbon-fuel power generators could have tolerated the cold. (And these generators form a large majority of the lost power, NOT wind or solar.)

Trevor Noah has a show on the Texas outage. Fast-forward to 8:00, just before he explains how AOC can provide a new source of power for the state.
[YOUTUBE]GWghjoC59_A[/YOUTUBE]

 

[laughing dog]

And Texas is shunning national efforts to help.

I think the nation should seriously consider honoring their wishes.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

It can't be frozen.

Water pipes in Texas are six inches down. It's all they needed for the last 200 years.

I find that hard to believe. Maybe near house, but not main pipes. You can easily damage it by driving over it or doing yard work.
Regardless, 6 inches is deep enough to not freeze in one week of slightly subzero temperature. And main pipes are plastic anyway.
It's clear that second floor copper piping froze up and burst in these videos. Main valve is fine. This is stupid. Whole houses collapse because they did not know that water supply should be cut off.

I'm sure there are regulations dictating minimal depth. When I lived in Georgia the common wisdom was deep enough so that a horse's hoof wouldn't make contact.

We just had a water main burst here. It was along a major six lane road in a high commerce area. Some poor guy hit the ice that formed almost immediately and lost control of his p/u truck and took out a utility pole holding up the intersection signals. So it does happen in places where they are prepared for it.

And I highly doubt water mains never break in Russia.

Same thing happens here both with extreme cold and with extreme heat.

 

[Elixir]

I highly doubt water mains never break in Russia.

In Russia, water main break you!

 

[Worldtraveller]

And Texas is shunning national efforts to help.

I think the nation should seriously consider honoring their wishes.

Means testing. In this case, ask who they voted for in the 2020 elections.

Or just ask how they feel about socialism. That would work too.

 

[Jarhyn]

I see misinformation in the thread. Texas' failure to join its grid to those of other states was NOT about simplicity or efficiency. It was about avoiding federal regulation, and thereby keeping for-profit power companies donating to political coffers. Had they complied with federal regulations, their carbon-fuel power generators could have tolerated the cold. (And these generators form a large majority of the lost power, NOT wind or solar.)

Trevor Noah has a show on the Texas outage. Fast-forward to 8:00, just before he explains how AOC can provide a new source of power for the state.
[YOUTUBE]GWghjoC59_A[/YOUTUBE]

These are facts. I would also, parallel to the fact that wind is not the villain here, point out that the wind infrastructure itself, regardless of whether these turbines have been fucked by the cold, is not itself fucked.

The turbines can be easily replaced on the pylons for very little cost. The primary cost was in putting up the pylons themselves.

Not so much the rest of the problems with Texas electrical infrastructure. Not only are the wind turbines the smallest part of the failure, they are the fastest part to fix: just drop new Canadian or Minnesotan turbines on the poles.

The far harder piece will be getting the eroded coal and natgas and other "infrastructure heavy" providers back online.

 

[Elixir]

I see misinformation in the thread. Texas' failure to join its grid to those of other states was NOT about simplicity or efficiency. It was about avoiding federal regulation, and thereby keeping for-profit power companies donating to political coffers. Had they complied with federal regulations, their carbon-fuel power generators could have tolerated the cold. (And these generators form a large majority of the lost power, NOT wind or solar.)

Trevor Noah has a show on the Texas outage. Fast-forward to 8:00, just before he explains how AOC can provide a new source of power for the state.
[YOUTUBE]GWghjoC59_A[/YOUTUBE]

These are facts. I would also, parallel to the fact that wind is not the villain here, point out that the wind infrastructure itself, regardless of whether these turbines have been fucked by the cold, is not itself fucked.

The turbines can be easily replaced on the pylons for very little cost. The primary cost was in putting up the pylons themselves.

Not so much the rest of the problems with Texas electrical infrastructure. Not only are the wind turbines the smallest part of the failure, they are the fastest part to fix: just drop new Canadian or Minnesotan turbines on the poles.

The far harder piece will be getting the eroded coal and natgas and other "infrastructure heavy" providers back online.

Yabut the nice thing is that the worst effects will come down hard on the very people whose votes are easiest to suppress, so who gives a flying fuck?

 

[Jarhyn]

I see misinformation in the thread. Texas' failure to join its grid to those of other states was NOT about simplicity or efficiency. It was about avoiding federal regulation, and thereby keeping for-profit power companies donating to political coffers. Had they complied with federal regulations, their carbon-fuel power generators could have tolerated the cold. (And these generators form a large majority of the lost power, NOT wind or solar.)

Trevor Noah has a show on the Texas outage. Fast-forward to 8:00, just before he explains how AOC can provide a new source of power for the state.
[YOUTUBE]GWghjoC59_A[/YOUTUBE]

These are facts. I would also, parallel to the fact that wind is not the villain here, point out that the wind infrastructure itself, regardless of whether these turbines have been fucked by the cold, is not itself fucked.

The turbines can be easily replaced on the pylons for very little cost. The primary cost was in putting up the pylons themselves.

Not so much the rest of the problems with Texas electrical infrastructure. Not only are the wind turbines the smallest part of the failure, they are the fastest part to fix: just drop new Canadian or Minnesotan turbines on the poles.

The far harder piece will be getting the eroded coal and natgas and other "infrastructure heavy" providers back online.

Yabut the nice thing is that the worst effects will come down hard on the very people whose votes are easiest to suppress, so who gives a flying fuck?

I give a flying fuck. Most certainly. But Ted Cruz [Fled on a Cruise] does not care.

Beto O'rourke seems to care too.

 

[crazyfingers]

I had read that the Texas power capacity, being deregulated, is very much based on using cost to keep supply and demand in check. When demand goes up the costs go up very quickly in order to decrease demand. That means that there is very little excess capacity to handle demand spikes created either by extreme heat or extreme cold. The power producers make most of their money when demand spikes and the prices paid by consumers spikes, so there is little to no incentive to have a power capacity buffer as the buffer would just decrease profits.

On top of that no economic incentive to make the system more hardened against extreme weather as we see here. Everything done on the cheap to maximize profits. Wind is just one example of things done on the cheap. Alaska depends a great deal on wind for it's electrical needs but you don't see the wind turbines freezing up in Alaska because they
have been made to withstand extreme cold.

Just another example of the failure of the free market to meeting the needs of the society.

 

[Swammerdami]

Trevor Noah has a show on the Texas outage. Fast-forward to 8:00, just before he explains how AOC can provide a new source of power for the state.

Come on, somebody! Watch the last minute of the YouTube and give Trevor a laughing-face emoticon.