Thank You For Your Service: Republican Edition

[prideandfall]

I strongly suspect that a majority of veterans lean towards the GOP. It is possible that adroit Democratic candidates could use this vote to help defeat some of their GOP opponents. Really, it is pretty much an anti-veteran vote.

57% of veterans are Trump voters. God knows why.

I recognize this was rhetorical, but there's an actual answer for it.

It's because the a large number of people who join the military fall into one of two categories:
1. Those who drank the 'Murica kool-aid and think that they are 'serving their country' and 'protecting the world' - they have zero recognition of the fact that they are in fact simply a legionary for an old white guy who is using you as a pawn for their geopolitical machinations.
2. Those who are too poor and/or stupid and/or desperate and/or unlucky to be able to successfully function within modern society and are doing it as a way to bypass the whole "go to school, learn a skill, get a job" routine.

Both of those groups tend to either be rural or uneducated or both, and that's a classic recipe for Republican voters.
But, the real catch is this: military minded people (both in the sense of those in the military and the chicken hawks who pull their strings) care about the Military as an institution, and care about it being used liberally... to them, the application of military force in any context is the goal.
It doesn't matter how or why the military is used, to them the entire organization is a loaded gun that is itching to be pointed and fired at something, anything, and so the using of the military is what they care about.

They don't care about the individuals within it, their well being or their future. Nobody who is a military nut cares about the lives of soldiers, they only care that The Military is robust and strong and used to bludgeon others.

This results in military people voting Republican because they've bought into the lie that Democrats don't utilize the military, because for the last 80 years or so Democrats have tended to start far fewer wars.
So jarheads vote Republican because Republicans send them off to die, and that's what they're for.

 

[Politesse]

I strongly suspect that a majority of veterans lean towards the GOP. It is possible that adroit Democratic candidates could use this vote to help defeat some of their GOP opponents. Really, it is pretty much an anti-veteran vote.

57% of veterans are Trump voters. God knows why.

I recognize this was rhetorical, but there's an actual answer for it.

It's because the a large number of people who join the military fall into one of two categories:
1. Those who drank the 'Murica kool-aid and think that they are 'serving their country' and 'protecting the world' - they have zero recognition of the fact that they are in fact simply a legionary for an old white guy who is using you as a pawn for their geopolitical machinations.
2. Those who are too poor and/or stupid and/or desperate and/or unlucky to be able to successfully function within modern society and are doing it as a way to bypass the whole "go to school, learn a skill, get a job" routine.

Both of those groups tend to either be rural or uneducated or both, and that's a classic recipe for Republican voters.

A rather bigoted and inaccurate perspective on why people serve in the military, if you ask me. But yes. The country itself is utterly and completely cynical about the value of their lives.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I strongly suspect that a majority of veterans lean towards the GOP. It is possible that adroit Democratic candidates could use this vote to help defeat some of their GOP opponents. Really, it is pretty much an anti-veteran vote.

57% of veterans are Trump voters. God knows why. But it is unlikely to change. If Trump standing in front of a live microphone and slamming POWs to their faces didn't lose him the vote, what would? Not a vote on a "partisan bill" that the Fox cycle is already explaining away as perfectly reasonable.

57%? I have 52%, which while still above 50%, is slightly less than McCain (54%) and W's (57%) numbers in '08 and '04.

The interesting part is that active military reportedly voted for Biden in plurality, 43% to 37% (ibid). And their view of Trump dropped substantially, especially relative to the Democrat opponent. Like most of America, large organizations are more complicated than we give credit for.

 

[Gospel]

Meanwhile:

Lawmakers press Pentagon for answers as military recruiting crisis deepens

Lawmakers from both sides of the aisle have expressed worries as the grim recruiting numbers continue to circulate throughout the DoD and Congress.

www.politico.com

When Republicans take control of Congress in a few months,” he added, “averting the recruiting crisis will be a top priority of the Military Personnel Subcommittee.” Gallagher is the top Republican on the House Armed Services’ subpanel.

Senate republicans vote Nay on removing the red tape standing between military veterans and health care.

Gallagher:

 

[Toni]

Meanwhile:

Lawmakers press Pentagon for answers as military recruiting crisis deepens

Lawmakers from both sides of the aisle have expressed worries as the grim recruiting numbers continue to circulate throughout the DoD and Congress.

www.politico.com

When Republicans take control of Congress in a few months,” he added, “averting the recruiting crisis will be a top priority of the Military Personnel Subcommittee.” Gallagher is the top Republican on the House Armed Services’ subpanel.

Senate republicans vote Nay on removing the red tape standing between military veterans and health care.

Gallagher:
View attachment 39670

The grim recruitment numbers are not surprising. Currently, unemployment is extremely low. People who are looking for work can find work. That removes a huge motivation for young people to enlist.

 

[Gospel]

Meanwhile:

Lawmakers press Pentagon for answers as military recruiting crisis deepens

Lawmakers from both sides of the aisle have expressed worries as the grim recruiting numbers continue to circulate throughout the DoD and Congress.

www.politico.com

When Republicans take control of Congress in a few months,” he added, “averting the recruiting crisis will be a top priority of the Military Personnel Subcommittee.” Gallagher is the top Republican on the House Armed Services’ subpanel.

Senate republicans vote Nay on removing the red tape standing between military veterans and health care.

Gallagher:
View attachment 39670

The grim recruitment numbers are not surprising. Currently, unemployment is extremely low. People who are looking for work can find work. That removes a huge motivation for young people to enlist.

I was insinuating that this vote doesn't help recruitment efforts. May not affect it at all but it wouldn't be an incentive to sign up fa sho.

 

[Toni]

Meanwhile:

Lawmakers press Pentagon for answers as military recruiting crisis deepens

Lawmakers from both sides of the aisle have expressed worries as the grim recruiting numbers continue to circulate throughout the DoD and Congress.

www.politico.com

When Republicans take control of Congress in a few months,” he added, “averting the recruiting crisis will be a top priority of the Military Personnel Subcommittee.” Gallagher is the top Republican on the House Armed Services’ subpanel.

Senate republicans vote Nay on removing the red tape standing between military veterans and health care.

Gallagher:
View attachment 39670

The grim recruitment numbers are not surprising. Currently, unemployment is extremely low. People who are looking for work can find work. That removes a huge motivation for young people to enlist.

I was insinuating that this vote doesn't help recruitment efforts. May not affect it at all but it wouldn't be an incentive to sign up fa sho.

100% Agree. I was just making a side point.

My observation is that most people are motivated to enlist in the military for a handful of reasons: 1. Desire to serve country, usually in times of war or threat of war. 2. Desire to earn money to pay for education. 3. Need for a steady paycheck 4. Desire or order to get more discipline in their life/find direction.

 

[prideandfall]

A rather bigoted and inaccurate perspective on why people serve in the military, if you ask me.

I didn't, and I'm sure that if I did, you would have absolutely no capacity to counter the point, except to cry like a baby because you didn't like the words I used because you find them mean.
(Or rather, that seems to be the case every time someone on this forum whips out the ole "you're a bigot" canard against me - they're just having a hissy fit because my meany pants owie time words made their fee-fees do a sad-sad)

So pray tell, what other possible *actual* reason is there to voluntarily join the U.S. army in the 2000s?
(as in the real reason, not the BS they make up to cover for it)
If you can provide anything resembling an actual counter to that instead of crying that you don't like what I said, I would be utterly delighted.

 

[starwater]

GOP = Greed Over People

 

[Gospel]

A rather bigoted and inaccurate perspective on why people serve in the military, if you ask me.

I didn't, and I'm sure that if I did, you would have absolutely no capacity to counter the point, except to cry like a baby because you didn't like the words I used because you find them mean.
(Or rather, that seems to be the case every time someone on this forum whips out the ole "you're a bigot" canard against me - they're just having a hissy fit because my meany pants owie time words made their fee-fees do a sad-sad)

So pray tell, what other possible *actual* reason is there to voluntarily join the U.S. army in the 2000s?
(as in the real reason, not the BS they make up to cover for it)
If you can provide anything resembling an actual counter to that instead of crying that you don't like what I said, I would be utterly delighted.

I dunno bruh. Seems to me like a lot of that fee-fee hissy fit stuff is appearing in your response. I agree with your descriptions I just find it hard to believe that it's a majority. I would need data to back up that claim. Also, the military does teach skills which itself would be an incentive for those under #2 as well as the tax benefits, not being bullshit (again not sure if you count that as an incentive).

 

[prideandfall]

A rather bigoted and inaccurate perspective on why people serve in the military, if you ask me.

I didn't, and I'm sure that if I did, you would have absolutely no capacity to counter the point, except to cry like a baby because you didn't like the words I used because you find them mean.
(Or rather, that seems to be the case every time someone on this forum whips out the ole "you're a bigot" canard against me - they're just having a hissy fit because my meany pants owie time words made their fee-fees do a sad-sad)

So pray tell, what other possible *actual* reason is there to voluntarily join the U.S. army in the 2000s?
(as in the real reason, not the BS they make up to cover for it)
If you can provide anything resembling an actual counter to that instead of crying that you don't like what I said, I would be utterly delighted.

I dunno bruh. Seems to me like a lot of that fee-fee hissy fit stuff is appearing in your response.

It's more irritation, as this is the 3rd or 4th time in the last two weeks someone replied to a post I made just saying "you're a bigot" with no other commentary other than to whine about how mean my post was.
I would adore having my statement torn to shreds and proven to be wrong, I find simply crying that you think my statement isn't nice to be pathetic.

I agree with your descriptions I just find it hard to believe that it's a majority.

Oh for sure I wouldn't think so either, but I didn't say a majority, I said "a large number" - I don't know the specific breakdown of either "why they enlist" or "what they vote" for all military people, I just know for an absolute certainty that a large number of people in the military fall into one of those two categories I mentioned.

I would need data to back up that claim. Also, the military does teach skills which itself would be an incentive for those under #2 as well as the tax benefits, not being bullshit (again not sure if you count that as an incentive).

Thing is, both of those reasons I listed are perfectly valid reasons to join the military, it's not like I'm saying enlistment is some kind of existential denial of reality... I just acknowledge the fact that a large number of people in the military are there for those two reasons, and those people are part of the demographics which tend to vote Republican.

 

[Politesse]

A rather bigoted and inaccurate perspective on why people serve in the military, if you ask me.

I didn't, and I'm sure that if I did, you would have absolutely no capacity to counter the point, except to cry like a baby because you didn't like the words I used because you find them mean.
(Or rather, that seems to be the case every time someone on this forum whips out the ole "you're a bigot" canard against me - they're just having a hissy fit because my meany pants owie time words made their fee-fees do a sad-sad)

So pray tell, what other possible *actual* reason is there to voluntarily join the U.S. army in the 2000s?
(as in the real reason, not the BS they make up to cover for it)
If you can provide anything resembling an actual counter to that instead of crying that you don't like what I said, I would be utterly delighted.

I generally believe in taking people at their word, unless I have a reason not to. They are, for the most part, kids when they make the decision to start pursuing that path. And they have a lot of different reasons for joining up. Often they view their service very differently at various points in their life, whether positively or negatively. But, your implication that they are all stupid or evil is bigoted, and if you think I'm being "mean" to you by observing the obvious, you should try sharing your perfectly reasonable and neutral opinion with a Marine sometime! I'm not as offended, but you're still wrong. Some of my very best students over the years have been veterans of the three foolish wars we've been discussing, and I'd trust any of them over any politician you could name.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Lots of people enter the military because they have a bit of a jarhead mentality. Lots do it because it's employment and they got nothing else. In my case it was a little of both. That time in the service certainly paid off over the years and is still paying off. I don't regret having done it but got out after my enlistment was up because I knew it wasn't for me.

 

[prideandfall]

A rather bigoted and inaccurate perspective on why people serve in the military, if you ask me.

I didn't, and I'm sure that if I did, you would have absolutely no capacity to counter the point, except to cry like a baby because you didn't like the words I used because you find them mean.
(Or rather, that seems to be the case every time someone on this forum whips out the ole "you're a bigot" canard against me - they're just having a hissy fit because my meany pants owie time words made their fee-fees do a sad-sad)

So pray tell, what other possible *actual* reason is there to voluntarily join the U.S. army in the 2000s?
(as in the real reason, not the BS they make up to cover for it)
If you can provide anything resembling an actual counter to that instead of crying that you don't like what I said, I would be utterly delighted.

I generally believe in taking people at their word, unless I have a reason not to. They are, for the most part, kids when they make the decision to start pursuing that path. And they have a lot of different reasons for joining up. Often they view their service very differently at various points in their life, whether positively or negatively.

I don't see how any of that is different from what I said, but OK.

But, your implication that they are all stupid or evil is bigoted

And when exactly did I say they're all stupid or evil?

I said a large number fall into one of two categories, please explain to me how "a large number" equals "all."

If you find either of those categories to be "stupid" or "evil" then that is entirely YOUR judgment, not mine.

and if you think I'm being "mean" to you by observing the obvious, you should try sharing your perfectly reasonable and neutral opinion with a Marine sometime! I'm not as offended, but you're still wrong. Some of my very best students over the years have been veterans of the three foolish wars we've been discussing, and I'd trust any of them over any politician you could name.

I don't think you're being mean, I think you're being pathetic.

Saying "you're a bigot and you're wrong" isn't countering the assertion that a large number of people who volunteer for the U.S. military are doing so for one of two reasons, and fondling your nipples while you fantasize about me getting beat up by some thick neck jarhead because I said that to their face doesn't make you cool or come across as smart.

Further, that there are people who do not fall into those two categories in absolutely no way counters the assertion that a large number do, so I have no idea what exactly it is that you think you're accomplishing here.

 

[prideandfall]

Lots of people enter the military because they have a bit of a jarhead mentality. Lots do it because it's employment and they got nothing else. In my case it was a little of both. That time in the service certainly paid off over the years and is still paying off. I don't regret having done it but got out after my enlistment was up because I knew it wasn't for me.

What branch were you?
I've been discussing this with some folks I know either in the military or who know a lot of people in the military, and that discussion lead down a path of how Air Force and Navy feel like a bit of a different animal, since you can join either of those and have a fairly safe bet that you're never going to see any combat.
Which seems rather distinctly different from Army/Marines, where you pretty much definitely are if there's a significant military operation going on.

 

[ZiprHead]

Lots of people enter the military because they have a bit of a jarhead mentality. Lots do it because it's employment and they got nothing else. In my case it was a little of both. That time in the service certainly paid off over the years and is still paying off. I don't regret having done it but got out after my enlistment was up because I knew it wasn't for me.

What branch were you?
I've been discussing this with some folks I know either in the military or who know a lot of people in the military, and that discussion lead down a path of how Air Force and Navy feel like a bit of a different animal, since you can join either of those and have a fairly safe bet that you're never going to see any combat.
Which seems rather distinctly different from Army/Marines, where you pretty much definitely are if there's a significant military operation going on.

Both my older brothers joined the Navy to avoid getting drafted into the Army during the Vietnam war.

One of them ended up being a Medical Corpsman in a Marine unit, got shot and exposed to Agent Orange.

 

[prideandfall]

Lots of people enter the military because they have a bit of a jarhead mentality. Lots do it because it's employment and they got nothing else. In my case it was a little of both. That time in the service certainly paid off over the years and is still paying off. I don't regret having done it but got out after my enlistment was up because I knew it wasn't for me.

What branch were you?
I've been discussing this with some folks I know either in the military or who know a lot of people in the military, and that discussion lead down a path of how Air Force and Navy feel like a bit of a different animal, since you can join either of those and have a fairly safe bet that you're never going to see any combat.
Which seems rather distinctly different from Army/Marines, where you pretty much definitely are if there's a significant military operation going on.

Both my older brothers joined the Navy to avoid getting drafted into the Army during the Vietnam war.

One of them ended up being a Medical Corpsman in a Marine unit, got shot and exposed to Agent Orange.

Alrighty then, so maybe not.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Lots of people enter the military because they have a bit of a jarhead mentality. Lots do it because it's employment and they got nothing else. In my case it was a little of both. That time in the service certainly paid off over the years and is still paying off. I don't regret having done it but got out after my enlistment was up because I knew it wasn't for me.

What branch were you?
I've been discussing this with some folks I know either in the military or who know a lot of people in the military, and that discussion lead down a path of how Air Force and Navy feel like a bit of a different animal, since you can join either of those and have a fairly safe bet that you're never going to see any combat.
Which seems rather distinctly different from Army/Marines, where you pretty much definitely are if there's a significant military operation going on.

Army. Air Defense Artillery specifically, Improved Hawk, which was the precursor to Patriot. Never got out of country. It was a peacetime army for me.

 

[prideandfall]

Lots of people enter the military because they have a bit of a jarhead mentality. Lots do it because it's employment and they got nothing else. In my case it was a little of both. That time in the service certainly paid off over the years and is still paying off. I don't regret having done it but got out after my enlistment was up because I knew it wasn't for me.

What branch were you?
I've been discussing this with some folks I know either in the military or who know a lot of people in the military, and that discussion lead down a path of how Air Force and Navy feel like a bit of a different animal, since you can join either of those and have a fairly safe bet that you're never going to see any combat.
Which seems rather distinctly different from Army/Marines, where you pretty much definitely are if there's a significant military operation going on.

Army. Air Defense Artillery specifically, Improved Hawk, which was the precursor to Patriot. Never got out of country. It was a peacetime army for me.

So then as someone who was in the service, was I completely off?
I listed two reasons that "a large number" of people join the military for, and was called a bigot for the suggestion.

As someone who's been around military folks, what's your call - unfounded bigotry, or not inaccurate?

 

[Alcoholic Actuary]

Lots of people enter the military because they have a bit of a jarhead mentality. Lots do it because it's employment and they got nothing else. In my case it was a little of both. That time in the service certainly paid off over the years and is still paying off. I don't regret having done it but got out after my enlistment was up because I knew it wasn't for me.

What branch were you?
I've been discussing this with some folks I know either in the military or who know a lot of people in the military, and that discussion lead down a path of how Air Force and Navy feel like a bit of a different animal, since you can join either of those and have a fairly safe bet that you're never going to see any combat.
Which seems rather distinctly different from Army/Marines, where you pretty much definitely are if there's a significant military operation going on.

Army. Air Defense Artillery specifically, Improved Hawk, which was the precursor to Patriot. Never got out of country. It was a peacetime army for me.

Mostly for me too, although we did go to Bosnia for peacekeeping. Certain MOS' get an almost automatic VA disability for hearing loss and tinnitus - Artillery, ADA, and Armor/Cavalry qualify for 10% disability. I was Cav and get a modest monthly stipend, but the back pay was generous. And benefits with at least a 10% disability are tremendous. My kids can go to any state school in CA tuition free (UCLA, UCSD, UCSB, Cal Berkley) - they just have to get in. If you haven't already, look into it.

And for the Judge Judys out there, I actually do have tinnitus. I can't sit in silence; I have to turn on the TV or listen to music or have a sound machine on to sleep. Among other surgeries I've had I'm 40% disabled.

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