That Iran Deal

[Trausti]

This . . .



was apparently because of this . . .

Israel's Netanyahu claims Iran lied about nuclear weapons program

In his presentation, Netanyahu said Israel had obtained some 55,000 pages of documents and 183 CDs of secret information from an Iranian nuclear weapons program called "Project Amad." He said the material was gathered from an Iranian facility in the Tehran neighborhood of Shourabad a few weeks ago "in a great intelligence achievement."

which may have lead to this . . .

Iran Deal No Longer 'Sustainable', Regardless of Trump, Deputy FM Says

The Iran nuclear deal is no longer sustainable for Iran in its present form - regardless of whether the U.S. exits the deal or not, said Iran's deputy foreign minister Monday.

so expect this . . .

 

[ZiprHead]

All of Netenyahu's evidence was pre-Obama nuclear deal. He's just buttering up the idiot-in-chief.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Efforts to sabotage peace seem so popular these days. The warmongers in the US have never forgiven the Iranian people for getting rid of the Shah.

 

[steve_bank]

From a CNN summary, Iran is in full compliance as written.

Trump is sucking up to the Saudis.

A destabilized Iran could unleash all the military power backed by Iran in Lebanon against Israel. It could draw us in.

The trwo stable points in the region are Israer and Iran. Without sanctions Iran is poised to grow. Economic growth is the best deterrent to agression.

 

[Ford]

Without sanctions Iran is poised to grow. Economic growth is the best deterrent to agression.

IMO, the "Iran Nuclear Deal" wasn't so much about keeping Iran from having nuclear weapons, but drawing them out diplomatically so that they stopped being so politically isolated. I mean, let's face it...Iran's nuclear weapons don't exist.

But Bibi is selling this line of bullshit that the Ayatollahs are sitting with their thumbs on a hair trigger waiting to launch a missile into downtown Tel Aviv. Trump seems to be playing along.

 

[steve_bank]

Without sanctions Iran is poised to grow. Economic growth is the best deterrent to agression.

IMO, the "Iran Nuclear Deal" wasn't so much about keeping Iran from having nuclear weapons, but drawing them out diplomatically so that they stopped being so politically isolated. I mean, let's face it...Iran's nuclear weapons don't exist.

But Bibi is selling this line of bullshit that the Ayatollahs are sitting with their thumbs on a hair trigger waiting to launch a missile into downtown Tel Aviv. Trump seems to be playing along.

Netanyahu is a skilled politician dealing with a power balqncing act. In a film clip he said he did not believe Iran was irrational and would not use nukes.

During the second Obama campaign he tried to cajole us into attacking Iran. At one point Romney pledged to attack Iran, then walked it back.

At the time past politicians In Israel made the news saying an attack on Iran could lead to the end of Israel.

Trump is a fool. Obama understood.

The real threat to Israel is an economucally dominant Iran. Iran compared to the Arabs has a solid stable culture and a strong identity as Persians. Iran has a rudimentary space program, a lot of intelectual potential. The Arabs rely on money to buy what they need, no culture of work.

 

[Derec]

Efforts to sabotage peace seem so popular these days.

Yeah, Iran is so peaceful, with Iranian Revolutionary Guards running the show in Syria and Iran funding Hezbollah and Hamas. Not to mention Houthis in Yemen.

The warmongers in the US have never forgiven the Iranian people for getting rid of the Shah.

Shah was not perfect, but he was much better than the weird beards in power now.

 

[Trausti]

Without sanctions Iran is poised to grow. Economic growth is the best deterrent to agression.

IMO, the "Iran Nuclear Deal" wasn't so much about keeping Iran from having nuclear weapons, but drawing them out diplomatically so that they stopped being so politically isolated. I mean, let's face it...Iran's nuclear weapons don't exist.

But Bibi is selling this line of bullshit that the Ayatollahs are sitting with their thumbs on a hair trigger waiting to launch a missile into downtown Tel Aviv. Trump seems to be playing along.

Netanyahu is a skilled politician dealing with a power balqncing act. In a film clip he said he did not believe Iran was irrational and would not use nukes.

During the second Obama campaign he tried to cajole us into attacking Iran. At one point Romney pledged to attack Iran, then walked it back.

At the time past politicians In Israel made the news saying an attack on Iran could lead to the end of Israel.

Trump is a fool. Obama understood.

The real threat to Israel is an economucally dominant Iran. Iran compared to the Arabs has a solid stable culture and a strong identity as Persians. Iran has a rudimentary space program, a lot of intelectual potential. The Arabs rely on money to buy what they need, no culture of work.

One of the criticisms of the Iran deal is that it gave $$$ to the regime to wage war in Syria and Yemen. That's part of the reason for the current protests in Iran.

 

[Derec]

The trwo stable points in the region are Israer and Iran. Without sanctions Iran is poised to grow. Economic growth is the best deterrent to agression.

Economic growth in Iran since the sanctions were lifted have been used by the theocratic rulers to spread their tentacles in foreign conflicts like Syria, Gaza and Yemen. The people of Iran are not seeing much prosperity.

 

[Derec]

IMO, the "Iran Nuclear Deal" wasn't so much about keeping Iran from having nuclear weapons,

No, its chief purpose was to allow European companies (who were champing at the bit) to trade with the Iranians. It is inadequate in actually stopping Iranians from developing nukes once the term of the deal expires.

but drawing them out diplomatically so that they stopped being so politically isolated.

They are not politically isolated. The Russians, North Koreans, Venezuelans are all allies of the Iranian theocrats.

I mean, let's face it...Iran's nuclear weapons don't exist.

They certainly do have a nuclear weapons program. To claim otherwise is either dishonest or naive.

But Bibi is selling this line of bullshit that the Ayatollahs are sitting with their thumbs on a hair trigger waiting to launch a missile into downtown Tel Aviv. Trump seems to be playing along.

Iran pledges to destroy Israel within 25 years as tensions rise

 

[Derec]

The real threat to Israel is an economucally dominant Iran. Iran compared to the Arabs has a solid stable culture and a strong identity as Persians. Iran has a rudimentary space program, a lot of intelectual potential. The Arabs rely on money to buy what they need, no culture of work.

If they want to thrive economically and actually take advantage of their "stable culture" they need to get rid of the theocrats first. Persian culture has been stifled over the last almost 40 years of Islamic dictatorship.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

In his presentation, Netanyahu said Israel had obtained some 55,000 pages of documents and 183 CDs of secret information from an Iranian nuclear weapons program called "Project Amad." He said the material was gathered from an Iranian facility in the Tehran neighborhood of Shourabad a few weeks ago "in a great intelligence achievement."

which may have lead to this . . .

So the question I have is, why in the heck would Israel expose an intelligence gathering ability, short of an imminent threat?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Efforts to sabotage peace seem so popular these days. The warmongers in the US have never forgiven the Iranian people for getting rid of the Shah.

War with Iran makes war in Iraq seem like an afternoon stroll.

 

[Derec]

Efforts to sabotage peace seem so popular these days. The warmongers in the US have never forgiven the Iranian people for getting rid of the Shah.

War with Iran makes war in Iraq seem like an afternoon stroll.

A full blown war with Iran would indeed be difficult and costly to do. It's a much bigger country than Iraq and has more natural defenses.
On the bright side, if the theocratic regime is toppled, there is a much better chance of creating a stable, democratic and hopefully even somewhat secular country. Question is, could we help the Iranian opposition to topple their dictators?

 

[Jayjay]

Efforts to sabotage peace seem so popular these days. The warmongers in the US have never forgiven the Iranian people for getting rid of the Shah.

War with Iran makes war in Iraq seem like an afternoon stroll.

A full blown war with Iran would indeed be difficult and costly to do. It's a much bigger country than Iraq and has more natural defenses.
On the bright side, if the theocratic regime is toppled, there is a much better chance of creating a stable, democratic and hopefully even somewhat secular country. Question is, could we help the Iranian opposition to topple their dictators?

And the answer is "no". The regime runs a tight ship and there is no likelihood of any kind of revolution in the short term. The Iran deal and slowly making the country more economically dependent on the west would have been the slower but surer way to soften the regime.

 

[Derec]

And the answer is "no". The regime runs a tight ship and there is no likelihood of any kind of revolution in the short term. The Iran deal and slowly making the country more economically dependent on the west would have been the slower but surer way to soften the regime.

I don't see the Iran deal making the weird beards any softer. If anything, they are becoming more aggressive when it comes to foreign policy.
The Iran Deal was mismanaged from the start. The West should have played hardball, not t-ball.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

A full blown war with Iran would indeed be difficult and costly to do. It's a much bigger country than Iraq and has more natural defenses.
On the bright side, if the theocratic regime is toppled, there is a much better chance of creating a stable, democratic and hopefully even somewhat secular country. Question is, could we help the Iranian opposition to topple their dictators?

The better question is, does Iranian opposition even want our help.

 

[Derec]

The better question is, does Iranian opposition even want our help.

They haven't been doing so hot on their own I'd say.

 

[laughing dog]

Efforts to sabotage peace seem so popular these days. The warmongers in the US have never forgiven the Iranian people for getting rid of the Shah.

War with Iran makes war in Iraq seem like an afternoon stroll.

A full blown war with Iran would indeed be difficult and costly to do. It's a much bigger country than Iraq and has more natural defenses.
On the bright side, if the theocratic regime is toppled, there is a much better chance of creating a stable, democratic and hopefully even somewhat secular country. Question is, could we help the Iranian opposition to topple their dictators?

Our record in the Middle East is not good, and our record with Iran is abysmal. There is no reason for the Iranian opposition to trust the US to help them (even if we wanted to) - look at our last "help". The notion that we can help the Middle East become stable and democratic without occupying the entire area is wishful thinking. And the idea that we can trust Israel (and especially an inveterate liar like Netanhys) to give us accurate and unbiased information is also wishful thinking.

 

[Elixir]

A full blown war with Iran would indeed be difficult and costly to do. It's a much bigger country than Iraq and has more natural defenses.
On the bright side, if the theocratic regime is toppled, there is a much better chance of creating a stable, democratic and hopefully even somewhat secular country. Question is, could we help the Iranian opposition to topple their dictators?

Our record in the Middle East is not good, and our record with Iran is abysmal. There is no reason for the Iranian opposition to trust the US to help them (even if we wanted to) - look at our last "help". The notion that we can help the Middle East become stable and democratic without occupying the entire area is wishful thinking. And the idea that we can trust Israel (and especially an inveterate liar like Netanhys) to give us accurate and unbiased information is also wishful thinking.

Is Derec advocating regime change, and implying that the US is able to CREATE "a stable, democratic and hopefully even somewhat secular country"?
OMFG... and I supposed that having Forrest Gump at the helm is what will make this do-able despite the lessons of the past?