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The Anything But Racism Argument.

AthenaAwakened

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And it goes like the this

The logical reasoning goes like this:
1.Racism is pretty much dead. Only the Klan, skinheads and people who use the n-word are still racist.
2.Therefore a case of racial inequality must have some other cause. Sure, there is still some racism, but it is so rare that it must be proved beyond the shadow of a doubt. Like murder or an appearance of the Blessed Virgin Mary.
3.Since it is not white people who are screwed up, it must be blacks.

But the emotional reasoning goes like this:
1.Holy crap!
2.White people are not racist! They are good people! No one I know is racist – well, except maybe my grandmother. This cannot be right. There must be some mistake.
3.There must be some Perfectly Logical Reason that has Absolutely Nothing To Do With Racism. What is it? Think, think, think.
4.I know, I can buy time by making them “prove” it was racism. Demand peer-reviewed articles, statistics, all of it. Buy more time by finding holes in those.
5.If all else fails, derail: “Blacks are the racist ones,”, etc.

This is not to say that the “It Must Racism” argument is any better. It is just as extreme.

thanks to
http://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/06/08/the-anything-but-racism-argument/
For the lists.

WARNING: The above list uses the literary device known as hyperbole and is not to be taken literally. Thank you

Now there is nothing wrong with questioning the reason behind a phenomenon. That is a good thing. And the EVERYTHING IS RACISM trope is a real thing.

HOWEVER...

The “It Could Be Racism” argument needs to be seriously and honestly considered. To dismiss it out of hand or not even consider it, ... , is not level-headed.​


So how can you tell when a criticism of racism as a cause of problem is legitimate?
you can start with these three questions

  1. Does the critique take into consideration the actual existence of racism?
  2. Does the critique take the experiences and intellectual capacity of the minorities involved seriously?
  3. Does the critique entertain the possibility that the members of the majority involved might be the problem?

If the criticism fails to answer these questions in the affirmative, you might want to take said criticisms with whatever size grain of salt needed to get it down.

And understand too that other causes could and normally do bring about social phenomena that end in racially unjust outcomes, but the existence of those other causes does not in and of itself negate the presence or possibility of any racism (or sexism, classism, ageism, etc.) being involved whatsoever.
 
It iis pretty clear that you blindly dismiss all critiques of "This is an act of racism", so why are you feigning that you base your dismissal on any kind of reasoned analysis?

This OP transparently was triggered by our exchange in the "Brown" thread, in which I presented detailed empirical evidence supporting an alternative non-racist explanation for greater searches and arrests of blacks during traffic stops. You failed there to even try to deal with that data and instead falsely accused me of denying that any racism ever exists anywhere just because I denied the validity of your "evidence" in a particular set of events. So now you do what you usually do when you have no intellectual defense and you run away and start a new thread where you invent a dialogue with an imaginary strawman opponent that doesn't exist and says things no one here has ever said.

No one has argued that it cannot be racism nor that racism doesn't exist. The argument is merely that there is no rational basis to conclude a specific act is racism, unless you have actual evidence that it is, especially when there is clear evidence of non-racist factors that would be very likely or even certain to produce the very outcome in need of explanation.

You are the one making the claim that particular acts are due to racism. Yet when given the modest request of providing any kind of evidence that can stand up to any level of reasoned analysis you dismiss such request as "emotional" efforts to "buy time". Some of us want to see evidence for claims of all sorts, not just when trying to resist challenges to our a priori conclusions. Notice what is glaringly missing from your list of things that "legitimate" critiques have: evidence.
 
It iis pretty clear that you blindly dismiss all critiques of "This is an act of racism", so why are you feigning that you base your dismissal on any kind of reasoned analysis?

This OP transparently was triggered by our exchange in the "Brown" thread, in which I presented detailed empirical evidence supporting an alternative non-racist explanation for greater searches and arrests of blacks during traffic stops. You failed there to even try to deal with that data and instead falsely accused me of denying that any racism ever exists anywhere just because I denied the validity of your "evidence" in a particular set of events. So now you do what you usually do when you have no intellectual defense and you run away and start a new thread where you invent a dialogue with an imaginary strawman opponent that doesn't exist and says things no one here has ever said.

No one has argued that it cannot be racism nor that racism doesn't exist. The argument is merely that there is no rational basis to conclude a specific act is racism, unless you have actual evidence that it is, especially when there is clear evidence of non-racist factors that would be very likely or even certain to produce the very outcome in need of explanation.

You are the one making the claim that particular acts are due to racism. Yet when given the modest request of providing any kind of evidence that can stand up to any level of reasoned analysis you dismiss such request as "emotional" efforts to "buy time". Some of us want to see evidence for claims of all sorts, not just when trying to resist challenges to our a priori conclusions. Notice what is glaringly missing from your list of things that "legitimate" critiques have: evidence.

quote my claims that particular acts are due to racism and to racism alone.

What evidence do you claim to have that says the shooting of Michael Brown was not in anyway the result of racism, or for that matter the events that have followed.

BTW, this thread was never intended to be some covert operation. It is an obvious outgrowth of the other thread and no one is hiding that fact. Why would I? But doesn't it make since to start this thread as opposed to hijacking that one?
 
It iis pretty clear that you blindly dismiss all critiques of "This is an act of racism", so why are you feigning that you base your dismissal on any kind of reasoned analysis?

This OP transparently was triggered by our exchange in the "Brown" thread, in which I presented detailed empirical evidence supporting an alternative non-racist explanation for greater searches and arrests of blacks during traffic stops. You failed there to even try to deal with that data and instead falsely accused me of denying that any racism ever exists anywhere just because I denied the validity of your "evidence" in a particular set of events. So now you do what you usually do when you have no intellectual defense and you run away and start a new thread where you invent a dialogue with an imaginary strawman opponent that doesn't exist and says things no one here has ever said.

No one has argued that it cannot be racism nor that racism doesn't exist. The argument is merely that there is no rational basis to conclude a specific act is racism, unless you have actual evidence that it is, especially when there is clear evidence of non-racist factors that would be very likely or even certain to produce the very outcome in need of explanation.

You are the one making the claim that particular acts are due to racism. Yet when given the modest request of providing any kind of evidence that can stand up to any level of reasoned analysis you dismiss such request as "emotional" efforts to "buy time". Some of us want to see evidence for claims of all sorts, not just when trying to resist challenges to our a priori conclusions. Notice what is glaringly missing from your list of things that "legitimate" critiques have: evidence.

quote my claims that particular acts are due to racism and to racism alone.

I didn't say you said that and none of my critiques of your "arguments" assume that is your position. In contrast, you are claiming that I and others have dismiss racism and generally non-existent and your entire OP assumes that people argue that no act could possibly be due to racism and that it must be something else. Yet, you provide not a single actual example of anyone saying such a thing.

What evidence do you claim to have that says the shooting of Michael Brown was not in anyway the result of racism, or for that matter the events that have followed.

Why would I have evidence of a claim I never made or implied? Little I have said is even about Brown's shooting, but rather about the stats that Toni and yourself advanced as "evidence" of racism in traffic stops. What I did was point out that warrants fully account for the greater pull overs, stops, and arrests of blacks, and that blacks are actually less likely to be searched during a stop in Ferguson when you look at drivers who do not have outstanding warrants.
All I have said about the cause of Brown's shooting is that it may or may not be due to racism but it may or may not have been due to many things, and the thing we have most evidence of is that he resisted arrest as admitted to by his friend and we know that cops often get aggressive when that happens regardless of race. The evidence I gave you and that you blindly ignored is the evidence related to warrants being the primary cause of the racial discrepancy in searches and arrests during traffic stops.

BTW, this thread was never intended to be some covert operation. It is an obvious outgrowth of the other thread and no one is hiding that fact. Why would I?
Well, why would you offer stats as "evidence", and then when those very stats are shown not to support your claim and to support an alternative claim, just ignore all of that and instead offer a strawman argument about racism not even existing as your "rebuttal"? My guess is the reason is the same as to why you would ignore a detailed deconstruction of your strawman and just start a new thread with that strawman presented for critique as though anyone but you have every gave voice to it. The nicest way to put it is that is your particular rhetorical "style".


But doesn't it make since to start this thread as opposed to hijacking that one?

No, it makes sense to acknowledge that your irrelevant strawman is a distortion and to actually address the real arguments and counter-arguments put to you that your tried to dodge by creating this strawman.
 
quote my claims that particular acts are due to racism and to racism alone.
Y

I didn't say you said that and none of my critiques of your "arguments" assume that is your position.
Well, you did write in this thread " You are the one making the claim that particular acts are due to racism." without any qualification. So, I can understand AA's confusion.

The "Anything but Racism" argument, in my experience, is pervasive. Sometimes, it is an overt racist trying to disguise the racism. Sometimes, it is covert racist trying to disguise racism. Sometimes it may be correct: the claim of racism is false or overblown. But it does seem that there those who insist on trying out every conceivable (and sometimes inconceivable) variable/explanation because they either wish to downplay the racism factor or because they cannot or will not accept that racism is a possible factor.
 
The problem here is that you routinely cry wolf on weak evidence.

Black "victim", white "perpetrator" is nowhere near sufficient to establish racism or even wrongdoing. (For example, the idiot with the pellet gun. I see a victim of his own stupidity.)


We come along and show alternate theories--that's not disproving racism, it's showing that you don't have the grounds to claim racism. The reality is that there are three answers: Not racism, unknown, racism. When we shoot down your attempts to put it in the third category we aren't attempting to prove #1, just showing that your attempt to make it #3 is invalid.
 
Y

I didn't say you said that and none of my critiques of your "arguments" assume that is your position.
Well, you did write in this thread " You are the one making the claim that particular acts are due to racism." without any qualification. So, I can understand AA's confusion.

It only confusing if you fail apply any logical reasoning or try to deliberately create a strawman. Whether a factor is "an" influence versus "the only" influence are completely different assertions and it is fallacious to infer one from the other. In addition, AA is arguing with me and others in that thread who have not claimed anything other than that there is a lack of evidence to support the conclusion that the shooting was a racist act, and a lack of evidence that the rates of searches and arrests are the product of racist profiling. Unless she believes these are/were acts of racism, then she would have no disagreement with anything I have said.

The "Anything but Racism" argument, in my experience, is pervasive.

Great. Then you can easily quote tons of examples where people make all of the claims that AA attributes to them in her absurdly cartoonish strawman. You better do it yourself because waiting for AA to give support for her claims is a lost cause.

But it does seem that there those who insist on trying out every conceivable (and sometimes inconceivable) variable/explanation because they either wish to downplay the racism factor or because they cannot or will not accept that racism is a possible factor.

You can show zero support for the underlined part, as it is clearly your pure fantasy speculation that these are their motives and in fact there is evidence refuting your assertion, such as my repeated acknowledgments that racism is a possible factor. As for the italicized part, AA has essentially admitted this OP is an offshoot of our exchange in the other thread, so go ahead and show me where I put forth "inconceivable" variables to account for the behaviors. As for "conceivable" variables, they are more than that, they are variables such as having outstanding warrants, which have massive empirical evidence showing that play a huge causal role and that they are highly correlated with race, and that once you control for them, the racial disparity vanishes or reverses.
IF AA wanted to critique an argument, why doesn't she actually respond to the detailed facts and reasoning in real arguments rather than inventing an argument no one has made, so she can then dismiss it?
 
It iis pretty clear that you blindly dismiss all critiques of "This is an act of racism", so why are you feigning that you base your dismissal on any kind of reasoned analysis?

This OP transparently was triggered by our exchange in the "Brown" thread, in which I presented detailed empirical evidence supporting an alternative non-racist explanation for greater searches and arrests of blacks during traffic stops. You failed there to even try to deal with that data and instead falsely accused me of denying that any racism ever exists anywhere just because I denied the validity of your "evidence" in a particular set of events. So now you do what you usually do when you have no intellectual defense and you run away and start a new thread where you invent a dialogue with an imaginary strawman opponent that doesn't exist and says things no one here has ever said.

No one has argued that it cannot be racism nor that racism doesn't exist. The argument is merely that there is no rational basis to conclude a specific act is racism, unless you have actual evidence that it is, especially when there is clear evidence of non-racist factors that would be very likely or even certain to produce the very outcome in need of explanation.

You are the one making the claim that particular acts are due to racism. Yet when given the modest request of providing any kind of evidence that can stand up to any level of reasoned analysis you dismiss such request as "emotional" efforts to "buy time". Some of us want to see evidence for claims of all sorts, not just when trying to resist challenges to our a priori conclusions. Notice what is glaringly missing from your list of things that "legitimate" critiques have: evidence.

Aaaaand, quite predictably, the conservolibertarians swoop in with cries of "Help! The PC police are oppressing me!!!!!"



Poor, poor, persecuted white guy. Some day, you will tell this story to your grandchildren about all the persecution you endured, and their little eyes will well up with tears of admiration.
 
It only confusing if you fail apply any logical reasoning or try to deliberately create a strawman.
No, it is based on basic reading comprehension.
Whether a factor is "an" influence versus "the only" influence are completely different assertions and it is fallacious to infer one from the other.
True, but your sentence as written did not make that distinction. It was not as clear as you meant should be. It is not any reader's fault for taking you at your written word.
In addition, AA is arguing with me and others in that thread who have not claimed anything other than that there is a lack of evidence to support the conclusion that the shooting was a racist act, and a lack of evidence that the rates of searches and arrests are the product of racist profiling. Unless she believes these are/were acts of racism, then she would have no disagreement with anything I have said.
I fail to see the relevance of that to the "Anything but racism" argument unless you are claiming you and others in another thread are making such an argument. Is that your claim?

Great. Then you can easily quote tons of examples where people make all of the claims that AA attributes to them in her absurdly cartoonish strawman. You better do it yourself because waiting for AA to give support for her claims is a lost cause.
Why I would have to quote "tons of examples" (a standard I have no idea how to measure, since words have no weight) that AA attributes to them? The "Anything but Racism" observation/argument is independent of any particular individual. In fact, if you had bothered to read the OP and the link, you would see AA is quoting someone else.
You can show zero support for the underlined part, as it is clearly your pure fantasy speculation that these are their motives and in fact there is evidence refuting your assertion, such as my repeated acknowledgments that racism is a possible factor.
Since I clearly gave that as my opinion, that is true.
As for the italicized part, AA has essentially admitted this OP is an offshoot of our exchange in the other thread, so go ahead and show me where I put forth "inconceivable" variables to account for the behaviors. As for "conceivable" variables, they are more than that, they are variables such as having outstanding warrants, which have massive empirical evidence showing that play a huge causal role and that they are highly correlated with race, and that once you control for them, the racial disparity vanishes or reverses.
This is simply the failure to apply logical reasoning or the deliberate creation of a straw man. When someone gives a list of possible outcomes, it does not mean that each outcome is true for situation. That should be especially obvious when the qualifier "sometimes" is placed in front of it. Nor did my post specifically address you in that regard - it was clearly a general observation. I do apologize if somehow my post induced you to think that it was entirely about you.

IF AA wanted to critique an argument, why doesn't she actually respond to the detailed facts and reasoning in real arguments rather than inventing an argument no one has made, so she can then dismiss it?
I don't read minds, so I cannot possibly answer that question. For some incoherent reason, you seem to feel that the OP does not stand on its own merits. The fact that AA indicates the OP is an outgrowth of some other thread does not mean it is directly addressed at you.
 
It iis pretty clear that you blindly dismiss all critiques of "This is an act of racism", so why are you feigning that you base your dismissal on any kind of reasoned analysis?

This OP transparently was triggered by our exchange in the "Brown" thread, in which I presented detailed empirical evidence supporting an alternative non-racist explanation for greater searches and arrests of blacks during traffic stops. You failed there to even try to deal with that data and instead falsely accused me of denying that any racism ever exists anywhere just because I denied the validity of your "evidence" in a particular set of events. So now you do what you usually do when you have no intellectual defense and you run away and start a new thread where you invent a dialogue with an imaginary strawman opponent that doesn't exist and says things no one here has ever said.

No one has argued that it cannot be racism nor that racism doesn't exist. The argument is merely that there is no rational basis to conclude a specific act is racism, unless you have actual evidence that it is, especially when there is clear evidence of non-racist factors that would be very likely or even certain to produce the very outcome in need of explanation.

You are the one making the claim that particular acts are due to racism. Yet when given the modest request of providing any kind of evidence that can stand up to any level of reasoned analysis you dismiss such request as "emotional" efforts to "buy time". Some of us want to see evidence for claims of all sorts, not just when trying to resist challenges to our a priori conclusions. Notice what is glaringly missing from your list of things that "legitimate" critiques have: evidence.

Aaaaand, quite predictably, the conservolibertarians swoop in with cries of "Help! The PC police are oppressing me!!!!!"



Poor, poor, persecuted white guy. Some day, you will tell this story to your grandchildren about all the persecution you endured, and their little eyes will well up with tears of admiration.


Whoever battles with monsters had better see that it does not turn him into a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.
 
The problem here is that you routinely cry wolf on weak evidence.

Black "victim", white "perpetrator" is nowhere near sufficient to establish racism or even wrongdoing. (For example, the idiot with the pellet gun. I see a victim of his own stupidity.)


We come along and show alternate theories--that's not disproving racism, it's showing that you don't have the grounds to claim racism. The reality is that there are three answers: Not racism, unknown, racism. When we shoot down your attempts to put it in the third category we aren't attempting to prove #1, just showing that your attempt to make it #3 is invalid.

Very much this, and it isn't exclusive to Athena. We get that a lot on this board. I sense a lot of it is emotionally rather than rationally driven.
 
The problem here is that you routinely cry wolf on weak evidence.

Black "victim", white "perpetrator" is nowhere near sufficient to establish racism or even wrongdoing. (For example, the idiot with the pellet gun. I see a victim of his own stupidity.)


We come along and show alternate theories--that's not disproving racism, it's showing that you don't have the grounds to claim racism. The reality is that there are three answers: Not racism, unknown, racism. When we shoot down your attempts to put it in the third category we aren't attempting to prove #1, just showing that your attempt to make it #3 is invalid.
Thank for a perfect illustration of the "Anything but Racism" argument in action.
 
It iis pretty clear that you blindly dismiss all critiques of "This is an act of racism", so why are you feigning that you base your dismissal on any kind of reasoned analysis?

This OP transparently was triggered by our exchange in the "Brown" thread, in which I presented detailed empirical evidence supporting an alternative non-racist explanation for greater searches and arrests of blacks during traffic stops. You failed there to even try to deal with that data and instead falsely accused me of denying that any racism ever exists anywhere just because I denied the validity of your "evidence" in a particular set of events. So now you do what you usually do when you have no intellectual defense and you run away and start a new thread where you invent a dialogue with an imaginary strawman opponent that doesn't exist and says things no one here has ever said.

No one has argued that it cannot be racism nor that racism doesn't exist. The argument is merely that there is no rational basis to conclude a specific act is racism, unless you have actual evidence that it is, especially when there is clear evidence of non-racist factors that would be very likely or even certain to produce the very outcome in need of explanation.

You are the one making the claim that particular acts are due to racism. Yet when given the modest request of providing any kind of evidence that can stand up to any level of reasoned analysis you dismiss such request as "emotional" efforts to "buy time". Some of us want to see evidence for claims of all sorts, not just when trying to resist challenges to our a priori conclusions. Notice what is glaringly missing from your list of things that "legitimate" critiques have: evidence.

Aaaaand, quite predictably, the conservolibertarians swoop in with cries of "Help! The PC police are oppressing me!!!!!"



Poor, poor, persecuted white guy. Some day, you will tell this story to your grandchildren about all the persecution you endured, and their little eyes will well up with tears of admiration.


I am curious whether you have ever once on these boards contributed a valid fact or made a statement of any logical relevance to the discussion at hand. If building strawmen were a profitable industry, you'd be in the .01%.
Where am I implying any persecution of anyone, including myself, or referring at all to PC? I am exposing the objective falseness of AA's claims and her rhetorical strategy of strawman construction as a means of dodging the detailed actual arguments that destroy ever false claim and logical fallacy she puts forth (a strategy she almost competes with you in terms of frequency).

The idea that I am a "conservo-libertarian" (the label you use in place of ever providing a rational argument) is absurd. By no stretch of the imagination am I ideologically conservative, "Libertarian" (as in anti-Fed or anti-economic regulation), or any combination. Loren, dismal, Harvestdancer, and many others you call (conservo-libertarian) will attest to my consistent opposition to them on almost every issue, often including race and gender issues. The only thing we share is an opposition to affirmative action quota-like hiring and admissions policies, the most extremist forms of "rape culture" rhetoric and the idea that mere intoxication = non-consent, and the sadly too often irrational and unscientific arguments put forth by leftist activists, even when I happen to agree with the general values they hold or the conclusion they are arguing for.
You and I actually hold a similar position on the majority of topics (though not our justifications since you never have any), but we disagree on a subset because you are blindly ideological and willing to disregard reason for political ends and I am not.
 
No, it is based on basic reading comprehension.
Whether a factor is "an" influence versus "the only" influence are completely different assertions and it is fallacious to infer one from the other.
True, but your sentence as written did not make that distinction. It was not as clear as you meant should be. It is not any reader's fault for taking you at your written word.

My written words in no way suggested "only". No qualification is required to denote something less than "only" since that is the implied meaning of the statement in the absence of a qualification that one is referring to the extreme and rare case of "only". When someone says "I like chocolate ice cream", do you infer that this is the only thing in the universe that the person likes and do infer that they are claiming that they are the only person in the universe that likes it? Of course not, no person capable of basic language comprehension would do that. "Only" could added to almost any utterance and to every verb and every noun in every utterance. Yet, no one does this and so people very rarely add a qualifier to clarify that "only" was not meant.
Thus, either you are one of the only people in existence that interprets the absence of "only" as meaning "only" and thus you constantly misrepresent what everyone speaking to you means, or your just pretending that its reasonable to interpret it this way because it serves your strawman-building rhetorical style.


Great. Then you can easily quote tons of examples where people make all of the claims that AA attributes to them in her absurdly cartoonish strawman. You better do it yourself because waiting for AA to give support for her claims is a lost cause.
Why I would have to quote "tons of examples"

Because you claimed her OP accurately characterized arguments that are "pervasive" and made by people on these boards. And you defended the reasonableness of her OP as an attempt to reference arguments being made in the other current threads. Your making claims, yet you cannot grasp why you would be asked to support them with evidence. Gee, how surprising.


The "Anything but Racism" observation/argument is independent of any particular individual.
Wow, you almost accidentally made a correct assertion. It is "Independent of any individual", in the sense that no individual has made the argument that she and you are falsely claiming people make frequently, yet cannot show a single example of or even realize why you should need to.

In fact, if you had bothered to read the OP and the link, you would see AA is quoting someone else.

It is obvious to all honest and reasonable observers that the OP is attempting to criticize arguments by people on this board, and specifically arguments in the Brown shooting thread. She admitted as much, and just hours before in that other thread had misrepresented my argument in just this way. The fact that she cannot be bothered to even build her own strawman fallacies and relies on some other ideologue who is equally disinterested in reasoned argument doesn't change that.

You can show zero support for the underlined part, as it is clearly your pure fantasy speculation that these are their motives and in fact there is evidence refuting your assertion, such as my repeated acknowledgments that racism is a possible factor.
Since I clearly gave that as my opinion, that is true.

IOW, you are admitting that whenever you give your opinion on a question of fact, it is clear that you have zero support for that position. Most of us here sort of prefer to have rational support for our opinions, because that is what these boards are kinda about, but I guess its good that at least aware of how your approach differs.

As for the italicized part, AA has essentially admitted this OP is an offshoot of our exchange in the other thread, so go ahead and show me where I put forth "inconceivable" variables to account for the behaviors. As for "conceivable" variables, they are more than that, they are variables such as having outstanding warrants, which have massive empirical evidence showing that play a huge causal role and that they are highly correlated with race, and that once you control for them, the racial disparity vanishes or reverses.
This is simply the failure to apply logical reasoning or the deliberate creation of a straw man.

It's cute that you're trying to borrow my language to cobble together the venere of a reasoned argument, but it isn't going to fly.

When someone gives a list of possible outcomes, it does not mean that each outcome is true for situation. That should be especially obvious when the qualifier "sometimes" is placed in front of it. Nor did my post specifically address you in that regard - it was clearly a general observation.

You don't need to limit it to examples of my personal arguments. You claimed these are pervasive arguments and made by people on this board. So go ahead and show examples of it on this board, and you don't need to show that "inconceivable" variables are always part of these arguments, just a couple examples of inconceivable variables would be sufficient. And if you can't manage to find anything in any of the currently ongoing threads, you can report that too and admit that like your other opinions, you have zero basis to claim that this form of argument is either "pervasive" or common on these boards, and you can notify AA that if she meant to characterize any arguments in the "Brown" thread or other recent threads (and it is clear that she did) that she is wrong. You never know, you actually find that you enjoy the novel experience of trying find evidence for your opinions. Of course, considering evidence prior to forming those opinions would be ideal, but...baby steps.

IF AA wanted to critique an argument, why doesn't she actually respond to the detailed facts and reasoning in real arguments rather than inventing an argument no one has made, so she can then dismiss it?
I don't read minds, so I cannot possibly answer that question. For some incoherent reason, you seem to feel that the OP does not stand on its own merits. The fact that AA indicates the OP is an outgrowth of some other thread does not mean it is directly addressed at you.

It isn't addressed to me. If she wanted to address me, she wouldn't have just responded to my requests in the other thread that she show evidence for her claim that I dismiss the very existence of racism and refuse to acknowledge that it ever has an impact on the world. It not addressed to me, but given that she had just made the same strawman mischaracterization of my argument in that thread, it is a clear attempt to criticize my and other efforts to merely ask for evidence to support claims of racism in specific situations by criticizing strawman versions of those arguments as made by a fictional person who cannot possibly defend themselves (because a fictional person is the only kind of person that can't dismantle such fallacious and absurd misrepresentations).
 
The problem here is that you routinely cry wolf on weak evidence.

Black "victim", white "perpetrator" is nowhere near sufficient to establish racism or even wrongdoing. (For example, the idiot with the pellet gun. I see a victim of his own stupidity.)


We come along and show alternate theories--that's not disproving racism, it's showing that you don't have the grounds to claim racism. The reality is that there are three answers: Not racism, unknown, racism. When we shoot down your attempts to put it in the third category we aren't attempting to prove #1, just showing that your attempt to make it #3 is invalid.
Thank for a perfect illustration of the "Anything but Racism" argument in action.

Thanks for showing that the "Anything but Racism" argument doesn't exist and that your use of the phrase is just a dishonest attempt to mischaracterize the mere request for any evidence supporting the influence of racism on a particular outcome, and the rational acknowledgement that alternatives exist.
 
When I got out of the gym the other day, there was a car parked in front with all the doors open and a collection of black people arguing like hell in a very aggressive manner. They shouted at each other things like: "You watch yo ass nigger!" and other equally "n-word" epithets. What struck me was that it was unsafe to be there and I hustled my ass away from the location ASAP.

There are lots of black people in my gym and I really don't normally hear that language from anybody there. I don't use that language either. I am white for what it's worth. My question is that if there is no racism, why does that word still mean "worthless black person?" Just hearing it bandied about by these guys made me nervous. The guys in front of the gym were obviously trying to be obnoxious to each other and everyone else there. It struck me that word should be off limits for all people...not just whites. The reason I got my ass out of there was because there is no good reply to any epithet. There was nothing that could be said that would make the conditions better. As I was riding my bike home, I got to thinking about other instances in the recent past where I have heard that word used. It seems to always draw from me only one thing...I become silent and realize we are not about to exchange anything valuable...and there seems no way to unwind the conversation into something constructive.
 
Thank for a perfect illustration of the "Anything but Racism" argument in action.

Thanks for showing that the "Anything but Racism" argument doesn't exist and that your use of the phrase is just a dishonest attempt to mischaracterize the mere request for any evidence supporting the influence of racism on a particular outcome, and the rational acknowledgement that alternatives exist.
Nothing in the post was about requesting evidence, so your response appears to be based on a misreading.
Look closely at the post to which I responded. . The reference to "the idiot with the pellet gun. I see a victim of his own stupidity" is truly telling. The victim may have been naive or careless or stupid, but LP characterizes him as "stupid". Nor does he allow for the possibility that the victim was black may have played a role in either the perceptions and actions of the callers or the police. Add in the admission that doing anything to show that the conclusions that racism is not a factor ("When we shoot down your attempts" ), and it is reasonable that the argument is the definition of the "Anything but Racism" argument. Showing "alternate theories" that deny that racism is one of many factors, is a potential "Anything but Racism" argument.
 
So how can you tell when a criticism of racism as a cause of problem is legitimate?
you can start with these three questions

  1. Does the critique take into consideration the actual existence of racism?
  2. Does the critique take the experiences and intellectual capacity of the minorities involved seriously?
  3. Does the critique entertain the possibility that the members of the majority involved might be the problem?

If the criticism fails to answer these questions in the affirmative, you might want to take said criticisms with whatever size grain of salt needed to get it down.

I agree completely that "It could be racism" needs to be seriously considered. It's certainly a real possibility, as is any other discriminatory -ism. I agree completely with the general position that you're taking in your OP.

I'm afraid, however, that I don't follow the specifics of your post. Item 1 makes sense to me... but I think I must be having a moment of extreme density on items 2 and 3. I'm having difficulty parsing them, and understanding how you mean them to apply. Could you provide an exemplar for me, please?
 
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