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The Bible And Slavery

Lion IRC said:
Lawrence Krauss - atheist. Scientist.
"The Ideological Corruption of Science"

https://twitter.com/LKrauss1/status/1282370811823706112?s=20

Science is used by corrupt people to justify and enable bad stuff. (Eugenics, Racism, Slavery, Atomic bombs, Sodomy, Gender fluidity theory...)

#tuquoque
Click to expand...

You must be understudy to Trump and Fox News. When backed into a corner find somebody or something to smear unrelated to the issue to derail the question.

What does this have to do with the bible and slavery?

There is corruption, fraud, and politics in science overall. No debate bout that, but so what? All human organizations are prone to corruption.

The Vatican is notorious for sex and financial scandals in the last 50 years.

In science fraud in the ling run is always weeded out by others. Claims are made, and if they can not be repealed or validated claims are rejected.

Science is nit a morality.
 
steve_bank said:
https://thechurchoftruth.org/god-jesus-condone-slavery/

The bible was used by whites to justify slavery. In the climate today of symbols of Confederate oppressions, it would seem like the bible should also be held up tp scrutiny.
Click to expand...

Well, to be complete, people on both sides of the abolition movement thought they were doing God's work in regards to slavery. And both sides of the Civil War had Xians who thought it was the foretold apocalyse.

Thus, it appears to me that the thing fails as a moral source. It just allows justification of any damned thought you bring yo it.
 
steve_bank said:
Lion IRC said:
Lawrence Krauss - atheist. Scientist.
"The Ideological Corruption of Science"

https://twitter.com/LKrauss1/status/1282370811823706112?s=20

Science is used by corrupt people to justify and enable bad stuff. (Eugenics, Racism, Slavery, Atomic bombs, Sodomy, Gender fluidity theory...)

#tuquoque
Click to expand...

You must be understudy to Trump and Fox News. When backed into a corner find somebody or something to smear unrelated to the issue to derail the question.
Click to expand...

Nope - its about consistency.

What does this have to do with the bible and slavery?
Click to expand...

Bad people using, abusing the bible to do bad stuff is part of the same wider problem as when people use science to support bad stuff.

There is corruption, fraud, and politics in science overall. No debate bout that, but so what?
Click to expand...

Nuff said. You make my point very well.

All human organizations are prone to corruption.
Click to expand...

Whats that got to do with the bible and the slave trade? Oh WAIT!
You just answered your own Op.

The Vatican is notorious for sex and financial scandals in the last 50 years.
Click to expand...

[no true scotsman argument goes here]

Science is not a morality.
Click to expand...

The economics of slavery are not a morality either.

If you want morality you need to go to the bible.

The bible condemns greed.
The bible says the love of money is the root of all evil.
The bible says the worker is entitled to a wage.
The bible says theft (wage theft) is a sin.
 
Keith&Co. said:
steve_bank said:
https://thechurchoftruth.org/god-jesus-condone-slavery/

The bible was used by whites to justify slavery. In the climate today of symbols of Confederate oppressions, it would seem like the bible should also be held up tp scrutiny.
Click to expand...

Well, to be complete, people on both sides of the abolition movement thought they were doing God's work in regards to slavery. And both sides of the Civil War had Xians who thought it was the foretold apocalyse.

Thus, it appears to me that the thing fails as a moral source. It just allows justification of any damned thought you bring yo it.
Click to expand...

That's the thing about moral standards. There are so many to choose from.
 
It is the old Christian cherry picking to support a position.

The fact that the ancient Hebrews were genocidal, violent, and oppressively can not be ignored. They were no different than the cultures around them.

Slavery was a fact of life. There are no biblical commands from god calling out slavery as an offense. Certainly not under Mosaic Law.

American black slaves developed their own Christian gospel of salvation.
 
Lion IRC said:
Nope - its about consistency.

What does this have to do with the bible and slavery?
Click to expand...

Bad people using, abusing the bible to do bad stuff is part of the same wider problem as when people use science to support bad stuff.

There is corruption, fraud, and politics in science overall. No debate bout that, but so what?
Click to expand...

Nuff said. You make my point very well.

All human organizations are prone to corruption.
Click to expand...

Whats that got to do with the bible and the slave trade? Oh WAIT!
You just answered your own Op.
Click to expand...

The Bible endorses slavery and provides explicit instructions on how slaves should be treated. It's not about humans corrupting the message of the Bible; it's about Biblegod giving us humans instructions on how to keep slaves. Have you read the Bible, or do you need us to point out chapter and verse where God is teaching people to enslave other people?
 
Now he there are some bad people using the bible? The history of Chrinity us one of oppression and genocide, cultural and physical. The destruction of Native American culture by forced indoctrination to Christianity.

From our modern sensibilities ancient Hebrews were not nice people. More like the Sharia Law of Today.

There is noting in the bible about any condemnation of slavery.
 
When you add genocide to the mix -- which the Bible does repeatedly -- and you have the God of justice and mercy ordering exterminations of whole populations (and doing it himself, 8 chapters into his holy book) -- you have the wonderful spectacle of today's believers explaining chattel slavery and genocide as features of human life 'back then' which their god somehow didn't put an end to. He could order them to stop eating shellfish, but slavery? Who's gonna thresh the wheat?
BTW, look out for the apologist trope which tries to define Biblical slavery as indentured servitude (i.e., a short-term work contract). There are some passages which can be read that way, but there is also a clear message in the OT about chattel slavery and the right to own people for life and treat them as you like. In the NT, it's more about advising slaves to stay where they are and be loyal servants.
 
Lion IRC said:
Nope - its about consistency.

What does this have to do with the bible and slavery?
Click to expand...

Bad people using, abusing the bible to do bad stuff is part of the same wider problem as when people use science to support bad stuff.

There is corruption, fraud, and politics in science overall. No debate bout that, but so what?
Click to expand...

Nuff said. You make my point very well.

All human organizations are prone to corruption.
Click to expand...

Whats that got to do with the bible and the slave trade? Oh WAIT!
You just answered your own Op.

The Vatican is notorious for sex and financial scandals in the last 50 years.
Click to expand...

[no true scotsman argument goes here]

Science is not a morality.
Click to expand...

The economics of slavery are not a morality either.

If you want morality you need to go to the bible.

The bible condemns greed.
The bible says the love of money is the root of all evil.
The bible says the worker is entitled to a wage.
The bible says theft (wage theft) is a sin.
Click to expand...

The bible also says things that contradict all of the above, contradicting love, mercy and equality, condoning slavery, hierarchy and cruelty. These contradictions are a serious problem.
 
Lion IRC said:
If you want morality you need to go to the bible.
Click to expand...
That does seem to be the go to authority for people to justify any fucking thing they want to do... slavery, genocide, murder, witch burning, assault, mutilation, cruelty, etc. Whatever someone wants to do can be found approved of there.

Of course, there is some good stuff there too but that's because everything is there.
 
skepticalbip said:
Of course, there is some good stuff there too but that's because everything is there.
Click to expand...
That's still on you, though. The Books doesn't give good andd bad stuff.

It gives...stuff.

someone else taught you good and bad, so you can say slavery bad, charity good. The only thing the Books does is if you and your moral authority find it good, you can pretend that the divine skybeast finds it good, too.
 
Lion IRC said:
Bad people using, abusing the bible to do bad stuff is part of the same wider problem as when people use science to support bad stuff.
Click to expand...
Abusing? Nah. The Books directly tells us how to keep slaves. There's no 'abuse' in pretending it condones the practice, just reading. It might qualify as abuse if there were another point saying , "Remember when I told you to take slaves, and how to keep them? That's over."
But i don't know of the verse.

Science, on the other hand, does not even pretend to speak for morality. So you did not say 'abuse.' People just use science. Some do bad things. Doesn't change the science. Does'nt even change the use of the science. Mix these chemicals, get this gas. Where you do this, who breathifies the gas, that's not an rlement of the chemistry.
 
Reading the book by hunting through it (with mental scissors in hand) for "clobber passages" to support your political projects is, I would argue, definitely abusing it. That isn't how books are meant to be read, any more than using your lawn mower for home defense is an intended use of the lawn mower.

I'm not disagreeing with the point that many books in the Bible support slavery. I do disagree that this obliges the Christian or anyone else to keep a slave, especially since the anthology contradicts itself on this point. Deriving a moral imperative concerning an issue that is presented in an ambiguous fashion seems foolish in the first place to me, and doing so carelessly on an issue as injurious to life and happiness as slavery is evil. You cannot both keep and liberate the slave at the same time.
 
Politesse said:
Reading the book by hunting through it (with mental scissors in hand) for "clobber passages" to support your political projects is, I would argue, definitely abusing it.
Click to expand...

Then please use your scissors and paste to present the Bible passages which teach that slavery is a grotesque evil which debauches the slave owner. Find us the Biblical prophet, teacher, or speaker who commands us to free our slaves. Find the passages that say that God never condoned slavery and genocide, that these were evil thoughts put into the scriptures by men. As far as I know, there is no voice in the Bible that expresses these thoughts, that declares that the Bible god could never order you to kill children, could never allow you to beat your slaves to the point of death, to execute a heretic or a rebellious teen or a wife who, on her bridal night, cannot prove her virginity. Prove me wrong. It's not abusing a book to point out the many lunatic, primitive things in it.
 
ideologyhunter said:
Politesse said:
Reading the book by hunting through it (with mental scissors in hand) for "clobber passages" to support your political projects is, I would argue, definitely abusing it.
Click to expand...

Then please use your scissors and paste to present the Bible passages which teach that slavery is a grotesque evil which debauches the slave owner. Find us the Biblical prophet, teacher, or speaker who commands us to free our slaves. Find the passages that say that God never condoned slavery and genocide, that these were evil thoughts put into the scriptures by men. As far as I know, there is no voice in the Bible that expresses these thoughts, that declares that the Bible god could never order you to kill children, could never allow you to beat your slaves to the point of death, to execute a heretic or a rebellious teen or a wife who, on her bridal night, cannot prove her virginity. Prove me wrong. It's not abusing a book to point out the many lunatic, primitive things in it.
Click to expand...

You seem to be responding to someone else's post?
 
Well, we are getting down to the crux of the issue, the bible is a source of morality. In the face of the actions depicted in the bible hardly a modern source of morality.

Abraham pimped his wife out for his own self interest.

Slavery was the norm in the ancient world. There is nothing in the bible against it up through the gospels.

The bible is patently not a moral guide.
 
ideologyhunter said:
Politesse said:
Reading the book by hunting through it (with mental scissors in hand) for "clobber passages" to support your political projects is, I would argue, definitely abusing it.
Click to expand...

Then please use your scissors and paste to present the Bible passages which teach that slavery is a grotesque evil which debauches the slave owner. Find us the Biblical prophet, teacher, or speaker who commands us to free our slaves. Find the passages that say that God never condoned slavery and genocide, that these were evil thoughts put into the scriptures by men. As far as I know, there is no voice in the Bible that expresses these thoughts, that declares that the Bible god could never order you to kill children, could never allow you to beat your slaves to the point of death, to execute a heretic or a rebellious teen or a wife who, on her bridal night, cannot prove her virginity. Prove me wrong. It's not abusing a book to point out the many lunatic, primitive things in it.
Click to expand...

The philosophical pseudo Christians pick out the inoffensive stuff. Be nice to everybody and so on on. The problem is Jesus was reinforcing Mosaic Law. He cited biblical prophets. He was a Jew. For one thigk he commented the easing of the divorce law, and fornication.
 
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