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whichphilosophy
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Hi,
We are in an English seaside town. We go into a posh hotel and ask for Martinis in the bar. The Brit barman says “What’s a Martini?” before going off to find out what we are talking about and how to make them. We leave.
Later we go into a seafront cafe and I ask for a black Americano with milk on the side. The Brit waitress gives me a white Americano with extra milk on the side. This drink contains precious little coffee but much milk.
In desperation, we go to a coffee chain, Costa. I ask for the same and the Brit ‘Barrister’ shouts ‘White Americano’ to his colleague. It tastes like sludge.
I have been abroad in Europe. I know that this would not happen in any other EU country, or even here if the employee was an immigrant from anywhere. But in Brexit Britain it is a short step back to the 1950s, a time of poor food, worldly ignorance and terminally bad service. What’s not to like?
A.
In English a coffee means a coffee. However since the 1990s we now understand that a Black Americano is not an Afro-Americano. This has nothing to do with Brexit as shops such as Costa (Costa Lot) have been around since the 1990's and I found were over priced in relation to the quality.
Now you can pay around £2.10 for a small cappuccino made at half strength. In Milan a full strength good tasting cappuccino costs just one Euro. A croissant costs 80 cents. In London a Croissant can cost £2.50.
A major part of the costs will end up paying huge rents and local government taxes.
Despite mass immigration into the UK at a net amount of around 300,000 people housing construction has for the past 10 or so years not even met half the demand for that. As a result property prices have escalated so high that only 20% of young people think they will ever purchase a house or a flat.
This reflects the 1920's.
In fact the 1950's experienced mass changes such as a huge increase in at least temporary housing, a new totally Free National Health Service and Free education were in place. Poor children were given free school lunches.
Today Britain is in debt and the Builder's Federation claims the UK is currently 1,000,000 homes short
http://www.hbf.co.uk/media-centre/news/view/housing-shortage-hits-one-million/
In the 1950s 250,000 local authority homes were built each year. Now the figure is well under half of that. Take into account mass immigration at a net 300,000 or so each year (calculated after people who leave the UK
See here
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/may/24/history-british-housing-decade
Not only that but local councils have their allocations cut each year due to Tory Austerity measures so housing lists for affordable housing have continued to rise.
Philos
Veteran Member
wp,
Your whole post was interesting, but the above mostly so.
I remember 1950s coffee bars in which someone would put a small spoonful of instant in a mug, pour in milk and then blast it with steam from a spout. This was (to me) a ghastly concoction which is still sometimes served in the backwoods, both rural and urban. Coffee at home was expensive through the inflation years, and we fell back on the ersatz 'Camp' stuff, made with chicory I think. Kenco was a high spot, when we could find it.
The landscape of English food and drink has changed massively in recent decades, perhaps through globalization and also through free movement of people around Europe, benefiting us all. I had never even been abroad before the 1990s, when I was already middle aged. Seeing the living standards in places I visited and the quality of life in France, Italy and Spain, was a wake up call. The standards of excellence and service were mind blowing after what I had experienced here. Our standards of service seemed to be based on rudeness and laziness, and in many places they still are.
I sincerely hope that Brexit does not turn back the clock, and that free market principles will maintain the benefits of globalization, but who knows what will happen? I'm currently researching independent coffee suppliers and shops and finding good news. The best coffee I have tasted was in Italy and France, but some of our independents can match that quality, almost.
Maybe nature will find away.
A.
TSwizzle
I am unburdened by what has been.
What is even more tedious is the petulant liberal luvvies portraying the electorate as racist, xenophobic thickos.
bilby
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You may find it tedious, but they are correct in their assessment. The truth doesn't change because you are bored of hearing it.
Philos
Veteran Member
TSwizzle,
You have expressed your conservatism very clearly. Sometimes it takes a little longer to come out....
A.
gmbteach
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Alex,
I will get there.
Hugs
Gaynor
Can't say I know many liberals, but, presumably, more than you do, to judge by your thick, racist comment.
TSwizzle
I am unburdened by what has been.
TSwizzle,
You have expressed your conservatism very clearly. Sometimes it takes a little longer to come out....
A.
That's rich coming from the person that came on here whining because he couldn't get a martini and blames it on Brexit.
Horatio Parker
Veteran Member
My first foreign coffee was in Portugal. Portugal is full of little neighborhood/bar/restaurant/snack bars called pastelerias. The espresso machines are Italian, but everyone swears Portuguese coffee is better. I wouldn't know, not having been to Italy, but Portuguese coffee is delicious. Anyway, IIRC, in Portugal an "Italienne" was espresso with a bit of water added.
I had the pleasure of playing music for a summer in the Algarve, and when my wife came to visit, she brought Bustelo from NY. I told her she brought sand to the beach, and the Bustelo ended up going back with her.
Now I drink Cuban coffee, that is Bustelo and sugar added to boiling water then strained through a colador on a stand, kinduva a cheesecloth windsock. Or cafe con leche, cafe negro added to hot milk. The Dominicans make a cafe con leche(not sure that they call it that) with condensed milk, also delicious if very sweet.
I have yet to experience an American cafe in the US with the simple warm vibe of a pasteleria combined with excellent coffee. Maybe we need some kind of internal non-Brexit here...
I had the pleasure of playing music for a summer in the Algarve, and when my wife came to visit, she brought Bustelo from NY. I told her she brought sand to the beach, and the Bustelo ended up going back with her.
Now I drink Cuban coffee, that is Bustelo and sugar added to boiling water then strained through a colador on a stand, kinduva a cheesecloth windsock. Or cafe con leche, cafe negro added to hot milk. The Dominicans make a cafe con leche(not sure that they call it that) with condensed milk, also delicious if very sweet.
I have yet to experience an American cafe in the US with the simple warm vibe of a pasteleria combined with excellent coffee. Maybe we need some kind of internal non-Brexit here...
Philos
Veteran Member
Horatio,
Interesting post.
Just googled Bustelo. I've consumed a good number of cafe solos in Spain and find the taste very different from French and Italian styles. Strangely, Spanish coffee goes remarkably well with cheap Spanish cigarettes. Its a perfect combination of throaty tastes. Add to that a Spanish Brandy or Rum and we are really cooking!
In my Brit explorations I'm ordering Americano with milk on the side. That way I can have a look at the crema on the black coffee and have a proper taste before adding milk. Maybe in time I'll just drop the milk.
http://legacy.sweetmarias.com/library/content/espresso-almighty-crema
A.
Horatio Parker
Veteran Member
Horatio,
Interesting post.
I've consumed a good number of cafe solos in Spain and find the taste very different from French and Italian styles. Strangely, Spanish coffee goes remarkably well with cheap Spanish cigarettes. Its a perfect combination of throaty tastes. Add to that a Spanish Brandy or Rum and we are really cooking!
In my Brit explorations I'm ordering Americano with milk on the side. That way I can have a look at the crema on the black coffee and have a proper taste before adding milk. Maybe in time I'll just drop the milk.
http://legacy.sweetmarias.com/library/content/espresso-almighty-crema
A.
Thanks. I remembered, and then forgot, that one of my most memorable cups of coffee was in Northport, England. I was on the road with a r&b singer. We flew to Gatwick, then rode up to Northport. Played the gig, to an apparently indifferent if rowdy crowd, then went out drinking...next morning I was the first to the lobby for call, very hung over. The road manager had just ordered a pot of coffee(more of a thermos than a pot), and shared it with me. It had milk and sugar, and in those days I drank coffee black. But it was amazingly rich and good, we both praised it and drank it all before our catatonic bus ride to London. So at least sometimes England gets coffee right...
bilby
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Horatio,
Interesting post.
I've consumed a good number of cafe solos in Spain and find the taste very different from French and Italian styles. Strangely, Spanish coffee goes remarkably well with cheap Spanish cigarettes. Its a perfect combination of throaty tastes. Add to that a Spanish Brandy or Rum and we are really cooking!
In my Brit explorations I'm ordering Americano with milk on the side. That way I can have a look at the crema on the black coffee and have a proper taste before adding milk. Maybe in time I'll just drop the milk.
http://legacy.sweetmarias.com/library/content/espresso-almighty-crema
A.
Thanks. I remembered, and then forgot, that one of my most memorable cups of coffee was in Northport, England. I was on the road with a r&b singer. We flew to Gatwick, then rode up to Northport. Played the gig, to an apparently indifferent if rowdy crowd, then went out drinking...next morning I was the first to the lobby for call, very hung over. The road manager had just ordered a pot of coffee(more of a thermos than a pot), and shared it with me. It had milk and sugar, and in those days I drank coffee black. But it was amazingly rich and good, we both praised it and drank it all before our catatonic bus ride to London. So at least sometimes England gets coffee right...
Maxwell House?
Horatio Parker
Veteran Member
Maxwell House?
I was thinking maybe heavy cream. I've heard the Irish and the Dutch hold forth on their diary products. England is the same region, so...
Philos
Veteran Member
Haha! I was in a blues band for a while. We lived on anything we could get, which was about £100 a night, JD No7 and other chemical supports. Our female lead singer would give us doses on a spoon just before going on. My best memory was playing with a guest African guitarist, who was miles better than me in the rhythm but very forgiving. When I left (ill health) I had to train up a replacement guitarist for the set and a few weeks later I heard him at a gig and folks in the crowd thought it was me playing.
Memorable days. I can't play now, due to a left hand fracture in a motorcycle accident. Still have the guitars. Don't mind though, as I can still ride and operate the clutch lever.
Time for a coffee.
A.
Philos
Veteran Member
Hi, -Update
So, we are sitting at a pavement cafe (Costa) in a UK city centre. The Brit waitress brings our food and coffee. Then she says " From tomorrow, we will not be bringing orders to the tables out here, you will have to wait at the counter for your food."
Question - Where in continental Europe would this happen, apart from this country?
I had a quick answer though. I produced our bill and said "You have charged us for three meals and we only ordered and have - two meals."
A.
So, we are sitting at a pavement cafe (Costa) in a UK city centre. The Brit waitress brings our food and coffee. Then she says " From tomorrow, we will not be bringing orders to the tables out here, you will have to wait at the counter for your food."
Question - Where in continental Europe would this happen, apart from this country?
I had a quick answer though. I produced our bill and said "You have charged us for three meals and we only ordered and have - two meals."
A.
Question - Where in continental Europe would this happen, apart from this country?
That's a trick question, right?
Philos
Veteran Member
Folks,
Another update.
This time Starbucks, Brit service again. I ask for a strong Americano in a smaller cup. It comes as an espresso. I say that I wanted an Americano, pointing to the cup on the shelf. The lady looks perplexed. I ask her again. She decants the espresso into the coffee cup. It lays there in the bottom. I ask her to put some hot water in, so it looks like an Americano. She does this. I now have my drink.
In what European country is this pantomime going to happen, apart from here? WTF?
A.
Another update.
This time Starbucks, Brit service again. I ask for a strong Americano in a smaller cup. It comes as an espresso. I say that I wanted an Americano, pointing to the cup on the shelf. The lady looks perplexed. I ask her again. She decants the espresso into the coffee cup. It lays there in the bottom. I ask her to put some hot water in, so it looks like an Americano. She does this. I now have my drink.
In what European country is this pantomime going to happen, apart from here?
WTF?A.
whichphilosophy
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Hi,
We are in an English seaside town. We go into a posh hotel and ask for Martinis in the bar. The Brit barman says “What’s a Martini?” before going off to find out what we are talking about and how to make them. We leave.
Later we go into a seafront cafe and I ask for a black Americano with milk on the side. The Brit waitress gives me a white Americano with extra milk on the side. This drink contains precious little coffee but much milk.
In desperation, we go to a coffee chain, Costa. I ask for the same and the Brit ‘Barrister’ shouts ‘White Americano’ to his colleague. It tastes like sludge.
I have been abroad in Europe. I know that this would not happen in any other EU country, or even here if the employee was an immigrant from anywhere. But in Brexit Britain it is a short step back to the 1950s, a time of poor food, worldly ignorance and terminally bad service. What’s not to like?
A.
We used to day black coffee or coffee with milk or cream. Modern life is more complex.
- - - Updated - - -
Hi, -Update
So, we are sitting at a pavement cafe (Costa) in a UK city centre. The Brit waitress brings our food and coffee. Then she says " From tomorrow, we will not be bringing orders to the tables out here, you will have to wait at the counter for your food."
Question - Where in continental Europe would this happen, apart from this country?
I had a quick answer though. I produced our bill and said "You have charged us for three meals and we only ordered you have - two meals."
A.
It's hard to get a decent cup of coffee in the UK. In Italy you can get what you order much cheaper, and around Euro 2.00 to 1.20 at the shop counter (bar).
However I've seen few British barristas. Usually they from the EU.
bilby
Fair dinkum thinkum
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We used to day black coffee or coffee with milk or cream. Modern life is more complex.
- - - Updated - - -
Hi, -Update
So, we are sitting at a pavement cafe (Costa) in a UK city centre. The Brit waitress brings our food and coffee. Then she says " From tomorrow, we will not be bringing orders to the tables out here, you will have to wait at the counter for your food."
Question - Where in continental Europe would this happen, apart from this country?
I had a quick answer though. I produced our bill and said "You have charged us for three meals and we only ordered you have - two meals."
A.
It's hard to get a decent cup of coffee in the UK. In Italy you can get what you order much cheaper, and around Euro 2.00 to 1.20 at the shop counter (bar).
However I've seen few British barristas. Usually they from the EU.
I know a couple of British barristas, but they are usually far to engaged in legal matters to waste time making their own coffee, much less making a cup for anyone else. In the UK, even solicitas usually get a paralegal to fetch the coffee.