The Case for Hillary Clinton

[Will Wiley]

What I don't hear from these folks is why I should vote for Donald Trump. ("Because his last name is not Clinton" isn't very compelling.) About the best argument I hear is that he's not Politics-as-Usual. But change-for-change's-sake is too risky, in my opinion, especially in a nuclear age.

the only reason the nuclear age is dangerous is because of those like Hillary Clinton who have been in power.

Was it Donald Trump who left the ballistic missile treaty?

In June 2002 the United States withdrew from the treaty, leading to its termination.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Ballistic_Missile_Treaty

 

[zorq]

the only reason the nuclear age is dangerous is because of those like Hillary Clinton who have been in power.

Was it Donald Trump who left the ballistic missile treaty?

In June 2002 the United States withdrew from the treaty, leading to its termination.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Ballistic_Missile_Treaty

That's a little bit like saying that you would rather have someone random off the street fix your plumbing instead of the plumber you used last week because at least the stranger has 0 plumbing failures to his name.

Lack of experience is far more damning than having a clean track record. We may as well elect a baby because they've got the cleanest background check of anyone with no votes that anyone can find issue with.

Besides, That's an ANTI-ballistic missile treaty that you linked to. Pay attention please. Anti-ballistic missiles are defensive tools for destroying incoming ballistic missiles. Allowing proliferation of (one kind of) defensive tools may reduce the threat of Mutually Assured Destruction that has kept us safe from Soviet nuclear attacks but it does not actually increase the destructive potential of anyone in the world. Recent history has seen the emergence of several new nuclear powers in the world, many of whom aren't allies. It makes little sense to limit your defensive powers with a treaty that doesn't bind those other nuclear powers too. And when those other nuclear powers might be rogue terrorists who are completely undeterred by the threat of MAD, it's better to have the stronger defense than an exposed jugular that calms your enemies.

 

[dismal]

The Case for Hillary Clinton

I think they already decided not to charge her.

 

[ksen]

Agreed.

Kevin Drum's blog is usually my first visit in the am after news.

I'm surprised Drum paused long enough from blaming Bernie to write this.

 

[maxparrish]

The Case for Trump

All my Trump supporting friends tell me this:

Trump is going to make America great again, believe him. He knows more about ISIS than all the generals, he watches the news. He is going to fire the dumb people, and hire the smart people...the REALLY smart people. He has great plans, big plans...he is going to shake up the establishment. Everyone in Washington is on the gravy train, and they are afraid it will end if we elect Trump.

He has run many big businesses - he knows how to get stuff done. He is going to get something done. Besides, Obama and Congress have failed us, so we need Trump. He has earned the opportunity to run the country...everyone else is a failure or a loser. All he does is win...win...win.

Trump is a winner...we need a winner. Cuckservatives and liberals have failed us...time for a new movement. There is a new movement.

Hillary is a liar, corrupt, and incompetent. Her husband rapes women, and she covers it up. How can you vote for that? Trump loves women, and they love him. He is going to give them maternity leave - that proves he is pro-woman.


Quite a case, no?

 

[ZiprHead]

All my Trump supporting friends tell me this:

Trump is going to make America great again, believe him. He knows more about ISIS than all the generals, he watches the news. He is going to fire the dumb people, and hire the smart people...the REALLY smart people. He has great plans, big plans...he is going to shake up the establishment. Everyone in Washington is on the gravy train, and they are afraid it will end if we elect Trump.

He has run many big businesses - he knows how to get stuff done. He is going to get something done. Besides, Obama and Congress have failed us, so we need Trump. He has earned the opportunity to run the country...everyone else is a failure or a loser. All he does is win...win...win.

Trump is a winner...we need a winner. Cuckservatives and liberals have failed us...time for a new movement. There is a new movement.

Hillary is a liar, corrupt, and incompetent. Her husband rapes women, and she covers it up. How can you vote for that? Trump loves women, and they love him. He is going to give them maternity leave - that proves he is pro-woman.


Quite a case, no?

So nothing on actual policies from Trump supporters, just feelsies.

 

[maxparrish]

All my Trump supporting friends tell me this:

Trump is going to make America great again, believe him. He knows more about ISIS than all the generals, he watches the news. He is going to fire the dumb people, and hire the smart people...the REALLY smart people. He has great plans, big plans...he is going to shake up the establishment. Everyone in Washington is on the gravy train, and they are afraid it will end if we elect Trump.

He has run many big businesses - he knows how to get stuff done. He is going to get something done. Besides, Obama and Congress have failed us, so we need Trump. He has earned the opportunity to run the country...everyone else is a failure or a loser. All he does is win...win...win.

Trump is a winner...we need a winner. Cuckservatives and liberals have failed us...time for a new movement. There is a new movement.

Hillary is a liar, corrupt, and incompetent. Her husband rapes women, and she covers it up. How can you vote for that? Trump loves women, and they love him. He is going to give them maternity leave - that proves he is pro-woman.


Quite a case, no?

So nothing on actual policies from Trump supporters, just feelsies.

Trumpers (aka Trumpkins) don't argue policy...much. When they do they tend to ascribe Trump support for whatever cause is their favorite hobby horse - which is not difficult given how often Trump has back-walked and contradicted himself so many times that you can cherry pick what you like. On the other hand, most of them are afraid to argue policy, knowing that Trump has said some pretty stupid things.

One Trumper summed it up for me; Trump (and his movement) is about attitude, not policy. He tells me that all you have to know is that he is wildly successful, has good intentions, and has the right attitude (esp about political correctness). You wont find an intelligent (but uncritical) case for Trump (although a few have tried). Their best intellectual case for Trump is that he is bad, but Hillary is worse...that's it.

The remainder of Trumpers are just ranters, complaining about the party system and the sinister "establishment" (who they can't name). Its pure emotion. And they can't understand why others don't agree.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I'm voting for Hillary simply because I know that her administration will be similar to Bill and Obama's terms. I hope that her people will have the ability to hopefully improve. But those were good years for me and my family. The 8 years of Bush were bad.

 

[Ford]

Honestly, some of the stuff on this list is superfluous.

Like #28: She's "annoyed by airline bag fees." Seriously? When was the last time Hillary Clinton had to pay baggage fees? Or flew commercial for that matter?

Or #74: She did not kill Vince Foster. No shit.

Or the quotes from supporters that pepper the list. Of course they're going to say nice things about her.

That said, the case for her is pretty clear, and not just from a progressive standpoint. We're faced with a choice between a candidate who has actually lived in the White House for 8 years, was a US Senator, was a Cabinet Member of the current administration, or a game show host.

 

[Deepak]

All my Trump supporting friends tell me this:

Trump is going to make America great again, believe him. He knows more about ISIS than all the generals, he watches the news. He is going to fire the dumb people, and hire the smart people...the REALLY smart people. He has great plans, big plans...he is going to shake up the establishment. Everyone in Washington is on the gravy train, and they are afraid it will end if we elect Trump.

He has run many big businesses - he knows how to get stuff done. He is going to get something done. Besides, Obama and Congress have failed us, so we need Trump. He has earned the opportunity to run the country...everyone else is a failure or a loser. All he does is win...win...win.

Trump is a winner...we need a winner. Cuckservatives and liberals have failed us...time for a new movement. There is a new movement.

Hillary is a liar, corrupt, and incompetent. Her husband rapes women, and she covers it up. How can you vote for that? Trump loves women, and they love him. He is going to give them maternity leave - that proves he is pro-woman.


Quite a case, no?

There's a sick part of my id that wants this idiot to get elected just so I can personally harangue the Trump supporters, but of course I'm aware that these people are generally incapable of introspection or learning lessons. Where's Jacob Marley when you need him?

 

[Funkytrip]

or a game show host.

Maybe that's what the presidency is in the USA nowadays: A game show host. Looking at the past year, it certainly seems that case. The biggest reality show on the planet. So for that matter, Trump would be the perfect fit for you guys.

 

[Elixir]

There's a sick part of my id that wants this idiot to get elected just so I can personally harangue the Trump supporters, but of course I'm aware that these people are generally incapable of introspection or learning lessons. Where's Jacob Marley when you need him?

I also harbor those secret half-wishes... but you're right about their lack of introspection, so what would the point be? Whatever went wrong with a Trump presidency would most certainly be Obama's (or Hillary's) fault, just like everything that went wrong under the Bush regime.

 

[Shadowy Man]

There's a sick part of my id that wants this idiot to get elected just so I can personally harangue the Trump supporters, but of course I'm aware that these people are generally incapable of introspection or learning lessons.

It's pretty clear that they haven't learned the lessons from every other person they've voted into office so far.

 

[James Brown]

True. It's getting harder to find strong supporters of George W. Bush anymore, but they're not exactly shouting Mea Culpa.

They just sing the praises of St. Reagan all the louder.

 

[Deepak]

True. It's getting harder to find strong supporters of George W. Bush anymore, but they're not exactly shouting Mea Culpa.

They just sing the praises of St. Reagan all the louder.

It's funny how many people who were adamantly against Bush the Younger invading Iraq 'from the beginning' were the same people who were behind the invasion contemporaneously as observed by a third party. It's like the entire country is populated by sports radio callers at this point. So many dickheads complaining about TSA now were then in support of the Patriot Act...

 

[Will Wiley]

while Clinton is dishonest because..... emails + Benghazi?

I'm actually "discussing" this with someone on Reddit (I know, I know) and apparently the reason that Hillary is not currently languishing in federal prison is because FBI Director Comey (you know, the guy who was Ashcroft's Assistant AG during the Bush administration) is totally in the tank for Clinton and is protecting her to keep his job.

Also, the entire Department of Justice is corrupt and protecting her as well.

They aren't corrupt, just incompetent.

Hillary Emailgate: How One Twitter User Proved The "Intent" That The FBI Missed After Months "Investigating"

Earlier this week, a twitter user named "Katica" seemingly proved the "intent" of the Hillary campaign to destroy and/or tamper with federal records by revealing the Reddit thread of Paul Combetta (aka the "Oh Shit" guy; aka "stonetear"). But what's most crazy about this story is that "Katica" was able to discover the greatest "bombshell" of the entire Hillary email scandal with just a couple of internet searches while the FBI, with unlimited access to government records, spent months "investigating" this case and missed it all. The only question now is whether the FBI "missed" this evidence because of gross incompetence or because of other motivating factors?

 

[Harry Bosch]

I'm actually "discussing" this with someone on Reddit (I know, I know) and apparently the reason that Hillary is not currently languishing in federal prison is because FBI Director Comey (you know, the guy who was Ashcroft's Assistant AG during the Bush administration) is totally in the tank for Clinton and is protecting her to keep his job.

Also, the entire Department of Justice is corrupt and protecting her as well.

They aren't corrupt, just incompetent.

Hillary Emailgate: How One Twitter User Proved The "Intent" That The FBI Missed After Months "Investigating"

Earlier this week, a twitter user named "Katica" seemingly proved the "intent" of the Hillary campaign to destroy and/or tamper with federal records by revealing the Reddit thread of Paul Combetta (aka the "Oh Shit" guy; aka "stonetear"). But what's most crazy about this story is that "Katica" was able to discover the greatest "bombshell" of the entire Hillary email scandal with just a couple of internet searches while the FBI, with unlimited access to government records, spent months "investigating" this case and missed it all. The only question now is whether the FBI "missed" this evidence because of gross incompetence or because of other motivating factors?

William: you haven't posted your picture of Hillary with the basket of skulls in awhile. What's going on? You getting soft on us?!!

 

[Tristan Scott]

another step in the correct direction

If it stands in the way of full Medicare for all, then it is not. It is a distraction from the correct direction.

Medicare for all is a pipe dream until we have a progressive majority in both houses of congress. If we don't it ain't gonna happen regardless of who is sitting in the WH.

 

[Tristan Scott]

the only reason the nuclear age is dangerous is because of those like Hillary Clinton who have been in power.

Was it Donald Trump who left the ballistic missile treaty?

I know you Trump people think Obama was president in the early 2000's, but in the Real World his administration wasn't in power in 2002. It wasn't Clinton either. It was Bush-although the Senate did not have to approve of the withdrawal, there was strong Republican support. Clinton, on the other hand, like many democrats was critical of the decision, and spoke out against it because ABMs are considered destabilizing.

 

[Trausti]

Best part at 4:40.