The dead "children" of Gaza

[Arctish]

Israel's primary role in creating the current crisis is it's ongoing campaign of ethnic cleansing in order to create a Jewish State with an unassailable Jewish majority in all of Eretz Yisrael. Also, the ongoing theft of every asset the Palestinians possess fuels the conflict.

The anger was there before Israel did *ANYTHING*.

Yes indeed. It was stoked by the Zionists who used terrorism and ethnic cleansing as the mainstays of their campaign to create a Jewish State in Palestine. When they proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel, the new state inherited both the animosity its founders engendered and the on-going campaign to drive the non-Jews out.

 

[arkirk]

The anger was there before Israel did *ANYTHING*.

Yes indeed. It was stoked by the Zionists who used terrorism and ethnic cleansing as the mainstays of their campaign to create a Jewish State in Palestine. When they proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel, the new state inherited both the animosity its founders engendered and the on-going campaign to drive the non-Jews out.

Loren: Are you a Zionist? Why do you continually defend the the inhumane actions of the Zionists and disparage the Palestinians? Is it because you identify with European culture? I find the killing of hundreds of children for any reason unacceptable behavior for any human being...even Europeans.

 

[4321lynx]

Yes indeed. It was stoked by the Zionists who used terrorism and ethnic cleansing as the mainstays of their campaign to create a Jewish State in Palestine. When they proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel, the new state inherited both the animosity its founders engendered and the on-going campaign to drive the non-Jews out.

Loren: Are you a Zionist? Why do you continually defend the the inhumane actions of the Zionists and disparage the Palestinians? Is it because you identify with European culture? I find the killing of hundreds of children for any reason unacceptable behavior for any human being...even Europeans.

Sarcasm comes easily, but it's a little hypocritical in this instance, where you and I are living in countries where ethnic cleansing has been carried out long ago, comparatively speaking, and where it has been so successful. Loren merely shows that he and Israel have a different Manjfest Destihy.

All human history is an almost unbroken record of murderous violence and foolishness such as we are witnessing now. I do believe that someone said something like that long ago.

Loren is right IMO, there is no solution except might is right. Who has the final decisive might is impossible to say at the moment. Israel cannot defeat the whole Muslim world, but that world is not a united whole, far from it. So the slaughter will continue.

 

[Underseer]

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middl...er-seige-naming-dead-2014710105846549528.html

(This is a listing of the dead, from Hamas.)

309. Ibrahim Jamal Kamal Naser, 13, male

A bad thing?

Here's his shahid poster:

Does he look 13? And they don't make those posters for civilians. He's Hamas.

Obviously, it's possible there was really a 13 year old with exactly the same name and they didn't admit to the death of the Hamas member but how likely do you think that is???

Loren, Loren, Loren.

After many years of arguing on these boards that Palestinian children deserve to die because they are Palestinian, now you want to use lies to justify the killing of children? I mean, if Palestinian children deserve to be killed because they are children, then what does it matter if those killed are children or not? For crying out loud, you have argued that Palestinian children deserve to be shot dead for throwing rocks, and now you want us to believe that you are concerned about whether or not the Palestinians killed were children?

Really? You really thought we would believe that of you?

Offering justification for killing Palestinian children is pretty much what you are known for on these forums, so your feigned concern looks pretty damn transparent from this angle.

Or is this an attempt to admit that you were wrong all those other times when you made excuses for killing Palestinian children? Are you now reversing your position on the killing of Palestinian children? If you now think it is wrong to kill Palestinian children, will you admit you were wrong in the past for making excuses for the killing of Palestinian children?

If you are not reversing your position and you do not now think you were wrong to provide justification for child-killing in the past, then why should we believe you now when you pretend to be concerned about whether or not the current victims were children?

What is really going on here? I'm really asking because your positions on this topic seem to be all over the place.

 

[arkirk]

Loren: Are you a Zionist? Why do you continually defend the the inhumane actions of the Zionists and disparage the Palestinians? Is it because you identify with European culture? I find the killing of hundreds of children for any reason unacceptable behavior for any human being...even Europeans.

Sarcasm comes easily, but it's a little hypocritical in this instance, where you and I are living in countries where ethnic cleansing has been carried out long ago, comparatively speaking, and where it has been so successful. Loren merely shows that he and Israel have a different Manjfest Destihy.

All human history is an almost unbroken record of murderous violence and foolishness such as we are witnessing now. I do believe that someone said something like that long ago.

Loren is right IMO, there is no solution except might is right. Who has the final decisive might is impossible to say at the moment. Israel cannot defeat the whole Muslim world, but that world is not a united whole, far from it. So the slaughter will continue.

So then, you are a Zionist? Israel's "might" comes from the United States. As for what was done to the Indians in America, that was an atrocity. If we never recognize our potential for doing harm and recognize the lies upon which it is based, we will have no peace. You have passed judgment on the entire Arab world. So has Loren. So has our government that supports ongoing inhumane activities allegedly with some sort of justification. The operative justification in Israel is not this "right to defend ourselves bullshit" it is Israel's version of Manifest Destiny (Zionism) in Palestine. You just prove you do not have to be Jewish to support this inhuman policy. Israel is actually a pip squeak country and the rest of the world should come down hard on it with boycotts, divestments and sanctions, similar to those applied in South Africa against that atrocity. Your and Loren's answer is unacceptable in a world where we know there are better ways than raw violence to settle problems. We simply have been bullshitted out of using our own moral judgements against this atrocity by people who are profiting from this slaughter...providing the weapons.

You are mistakenly calling my outright opposition to this slaughter in Gaza "sarcasm." It is not sarcasm. This killing is totally unnecessary and humane people need to demand it stops...not be weak and without any sense of obligation to humanity and civilization itself.

 

[4321lynx]

Sarcasm comes easily, but it's a little hypocritical in this instance, where you and I are living in countries where ethnic cleansing has been carried out long ago, comparatively speaking, and where it has been so successful. Loren merely shows that he and Israel have a different Manjfest Destihy.

All human history is an almost unbroken record of murderous violence and foolishness such as we are witnessing now. I do believe that someone said something like that long ago.

Loren is right IMO, there is no solution except might is right. Who has the final decisive might is impossible to say at the moment. Israel cannot defeat the whole Muslim world, but that world is not a united whole, far from it. So the slaughter will continue.

So then, you are a Zionist? Israel's "might" comes from the United States. As for what was done to the Indians in America, that was an atrocity. If we never recognize our potential for doing harm and recognize the lies upon which it is based, we will have no peace. You have passed judgment on the entire Arab world. So has Loren. So has our government that supports ongoing inhumane activities allegedly with some sort of justification. The operative justification in Israel is not this "right to defend ourselves bullshit" it is Israel's version of Manifest Destiny (Zionism) in Palestine. You just prove you do not have to be Jewish to support this inhuman policy. Israel is actually a pip squeak country and the rest of the world should come down hard on it with boycotts, divestments and sanctions, similar to those applied in South Africa against that atrocity. Your and Loren's answer is unacceptable in a world where we know there are better ways than raw violence to settle problems. We simply have been bullshitted out of using our own moral judgements against this atrocity by people who are profiting from this slaughter...providing the weapons.

You are mistakenly calling my outright opposition to this slaughter in Gaza "sarcasm." It is not sarcasm. This killing is totally unnecessary and humane people need to demand it stops...not be weak and without any sense of obligation to humanity and civilization itself.

Don't put words in my mouth and don't misinterpret my posts.

I am calling your comment on Europeans sarcasm as indicated by your Smilie which is labeled "Sarcasm". You agree with my statement about Israel's view of Manifest Destiny for itself so what's your beef?

Israel is 66 years old, less than half the age of the Catholic Kingdom of Jerusalem in time of the Crusades, and that did not last.

There will never be a permanent solution as long as Israel exists in its present form, The whole rebirth of Islamism is largely due to Israel's creation with the aid of the USA.

 

[arkirk]

So then, you are a Zionist? Israel's "might" comes from the United States. As for what was done to the Indians in America, that was an atrocity. If we never recognize our potential for doing harm and recognize the lies upon which it is based, we will have no peace. You have passed judgment on the entire Arab world. So has Loren. So has our government that supports ongoing inhumane activities allegedly with some sort of justification. The operative justification in Israel is not this "right to defend ourselves bullshit" it is Israel's version of Manifest Destiny (Zionism) in Palestine. You just prove you do not have to be Jewish to support this inhuman policy. Israel is actually a pip squeak country and the rest of the world should come down hard on it with boycotts, divestments and sanctions, similar to those applied in South Africa against that atrocity. Your and Loren's answer is unacceptable in a world where we know there are better ways than raw violence to settle problems. We simply have been bullshitted out of using our own moral judgements against this atrocity by people who are profiting from this slaughter...providing the weapons.

You are mistakenly calling my outright opposition to this slaughter in Gaza "sarcasm." It is not sarcasm. This killing is totally unnecessary and humane people need to demand it stops...not be weak and without any sense of obligation to humanity and civilization itself.

Don't put words in my mouth and don't misinterpret my posts.

I am calling your comment on Europeans sarcasm as indicated by your Smilie which is labeled "Sarcasm". You agree with my statement about Israel's view of Manifest Destiny for itself so what's your beef?

Israel is 66 years old, less than half the age of the Catholic Kingdom of Jerusalem in time of the Crusades, and that did not last.

There will never be a permanent solution as long as Israel exists in its present form, The whole rebirth of Islamism is largely due to Israel's creation with the aid of the USA.

The smilie in question was labeled...."roll eyes." I was somewhat upset with seeing you say Loren was right...might makes right. How am I to interpret that? I agree with the rest of your last post. My comment about Europeans relates to Loren's continued racist assertion that Palestinians have some kind of character flaw and they cannot be negotiated with...just pointing out that the IDF that kills children regularly is almost lily pure European. I am of European stock origin too, so I obviously don't accept that so called white men are automatically immoral and given over to butchery of darker skinned peoples including their children.

As for Israel's present form: The reality is that Israel is a dependent client state of the United States. When this status changes the entire middle eastern balance of power will change. Israel will be forced to negotiate and change its ways. I strongly suspect that Israel's current policies will come to a screeching halt and they can, with help from the U.N. possibly survive as a state, but not as a "Jewish state." If you listen closely to Netanyahu, this appears to be his main concern...to maintain a Jewish state and protect it from the wicked infidels.

When a nation's top leadership has concerns about retention of some religious labeling for its country, we already know this is going to end badly. Human rights and religious nationalism just do not fit into the same package.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Loren, Loren, Loren.

After many years of arguing on these boards that Palestinian children deserve to die because they are Palestinian, now you want to use lies to justify the killing of children? I mean, if Palestinian children deserve to be killed because they are children, then what does it matter if those killed are children or not? For crying out loud, you have argued that Palestinian children deserve to be shot dead for throwing rocks, and now you want us to believe that you are concerned about whether or not the Palestinians killed were children?

1) I have never said that Palestinian children deserve to die.

2) The point of my post seems to have gone past you--I was showing that this "child" was nothing of the sort--more evidence of Hamas lying.

 

[arkirk]

Loren, Loren, Loren.

After many years of arguing on these boards that Palestinian children deserve to die because they are Palestinian, now you want to use lies to justify the killing of children? I mean, if Palestinian children deserve to be killed because they are children, then what does it matter if those killed are children or not? For crying out loud, you have argued that Palestinian children deserve to be shot dead for throwing rocks, and now you want us to believe that you are concerned about whether or not the Palestinians killed were children?

1) I have never said that Palestinian children deserve to die.

2) The point of my post seems to have gone past you--I was showing that this "child" was nothing of the sort--more evidence of Hamas lying.

If you approve of the IDF's methods, you are approving of the killing of hundreds of Palestinian children and young adults...and women and old people. The numbers of dead are larger than have thusfar been reported because there are a lot of rubble piles all over Gaza with corpses still not even uncovered at this time.

You nit-pick over a tiny fraction of the total killed. It is just plain silly. It is obvious you give blanket approval to IDF actions whatever they are and defend these actions to the best of your ability without exception. I am still wondering why.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

1) I have never said that Palestinian children deserve to die.

2) The point of my post seems to have gone past you--I was showing that this "child" was nothing of the sort--more evidence of Hamas lying.

If you approve of the IDF's methods, you are approving of the killing of hundreds of Palestinian children and young adults...and women and old people. The numbers of dead are larger than have thusfar been reported because there are a lot of rubble piles all over Gaza with corpses still not even uncovered at this time.

You nit-pick over a tiny fraction of the total killed. It is just plain silly. It is obvious you give blanket approval to IDF actions whatever they are and defend these actions to the best of your ability without exception. I am still wondering why.

You're still obsessed with the tree and not understanding that I'm pointing to the forest.