The Democratic Party has attractive positions for moderate republicians/center right voters

[Jimmy Higgins]

Odd how no one ever heard of Springfield, OH before the debate but are dead certain shit is bad there after Trump made something up about Springfield.

No, not a cult at all.

 

[Patooka]

It should be noted this producer does many other locations and is rarely if ever political in his stance. Leading me to believe the content is real and trustworthy.

It took me all of 5 seconds to see what this cunt is all about. I'm not surprised you believe in the "Haitians eats cats and dogs" bullshit.

eating of cats and geese was not. It is part of their culture

I do find it hilarious you still think you represent the middle class and have only just discovered people hunt geese in the American Midwest. Take a wild guess why so many geese hunters are called "Fudds". I'll give you a clue - they aint fucking black.

 

[Ruth Harris]

Back to the original topic of this thread - I agree with the OP. For the first time in my life I am voting a straight ticket.

I live in a red state within a deep red county; we don't even have any Democratic candidates for local office. I have always voted a split ticket after researching the candidates, but the honest truth is that none of the Republican candidates can be trusted to safeguard and preserve our democracy. They are all promoting oligarchical ideals which will destroy our country.

So this year when I step into the voting booth, I will be voting straight Democratic. There are no local choices to be made since all the candidates are Republican so this will have no impact on my local government election.

If you had told me a couple of decades ago that I would be voting this way, I would have laughed at you. But here we are.

Ruth

 

[TSwizzle]

?? I'd agree that Harris hasn't been super clear on this issue.

Harris is a dope. She was a DEI hire by Brandon. She has never been popular in her own party, failed miserably in her run for the nomination. Nothing has changed other than this fawning over her by the media to try to change her image. She is clueless.

But the democratic position is out there, and it's working. Inflation is way down.

We have had to deal with chronic, crippling inflation for three years now. Brandon told us it was temporary, just a blip.

Cost of gas at my local gas station is down to $3.20! Lowest in a couple years. I'm sure that you'd agree that if Biden is to blame for prices going up, then he gets credit when it goes down?

Pfft, it varies in California but some places gas is still $5.40+ a gallon. Brandon made inflation worse with the printing of money for the "inflation reduction" bullshit which we all know was "green new deal" bullshit, he has admitted that.

The democratic position: 1) no more increase in sales taxes on consumers (Trump wants to increase it again); continue to help improve the supply chain (huge deal); lower drug prescription costs and etc. Inflation is improving. Interest rates are coming down. Things are improving. Don't be such a worry wort!

Nah, I'd rather take my chances with Trump than dopey Harris.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

?? I'd agree that Harris hasn't been super clear on this issue.

Harris is a dope. She was a DEI hire by Brandon. She has never been popular in her own party, failed miserably in her run for the nomination. Nothing has changed other than this fawning over her by the media to try to change her image. She is clueless.

But the democratic position is out there, and it's working. Inflation is way down.

We have had to deal with chronic, crippling inflation for three years now. Brandon told us it was temporary, just a blip.

Crippling? Hyper inflation is crippling. We saw a peak of well below 10%.

Cost of gas at my local gas station is down to $3.20! Lowest in a couple years. I'm sure that you'd agree that if Biden is to blame for prices going up, then he gets credit when it goes down?

Pfft, it varies in California but some places gas is still $5.40+ a gallon. Brandon made inflation worse with the printing of money for the "inflation reduction" bullshit which we all know was "green new deal" bullshit, he has admitted that.

Inflation got worse because of a combination of Government spending which over shot the need for pandemic support, widespread supply chain issues due to the pandemic, and uber low unemployment driving wages up. We had inflation, but at least it wasn't stagflation and Biden under supported the economy.

The democratic position: 1) no more increase in sales taxes on consumers (Trump wants to increase it again); continue to help improve the supply chain (huge deal); lower drug prescription costs and etc. Inflation is improving. Interest rates are coming down. Things are improving. Don't be such a worry wort!

Nah, I'd rather take my chances with Trump than dopey Harris.

Well, based on your posting history, risk assessment and management skills aren't particularly good, so that checks.

 

[starwater]

?? I'd agree that Harris hasn't been super clear on this issue.

Harris is a dope. She was a DEI hire by Brandon. She has never been popular in her own party, failed miserably in her run for the nomination. Nothing has changed other than this fawning over her by the media to try to change her image. She is clueless.

But the democratic position is out there, and it's working. Inflation is way down.

We have had to deal with chronic, crippling inflation for three years now. Brandon told us it was temporary, just a blip.

Cost of gas at my local gas station is down to $3.20! Lowest in a couple years. I'm sure that you'd agree that if Biden is to blame for prices going up, then he gets credit when it goes down?

Pfft, it varies in California but some places gas is still $5.40+ a gallon. Brandon made inflation worse with the printing of money for the "inflation reduction" bullshit which we all know was "green new deal" bullshit, he has admitted that.

The democratic position: 1) no more increase in sales taxes on consumers (Trump wants to increase it again); continue to help improve the supply chain (huge deal); lower drug prescription costs and etc. Inflation is improving. Interest rates are coming down. Things are improving. Don't be such a worry wort!

Nah, I'd rather take my chances with Trump than dopey Harris.

So if the candidate had a different skin color and a different gender, I doubt you would call them "dopey"

 

[RVonse]

Anti-Demonization and spread of lies and hate about people living in the country. The lie about Hatians eating pets as one example.

If you care about reality, here is an actual video of Springfield, Ohio speaking with many people in this small town all expressing frustrations with the number of migrants that have overwhelmed their small midwest city.

Shades of Project Veritas. I suspect the film of the supporters ended up on the cutting room floor. Perhaps he should have gone to the Haitian owned restaurants that were flooded by patrons to show their support.

It should be noted this producer does many other locations and is rarely if ever political in his stance. Leading me to believe the content is real and trustworthy. It should also be noted that the lie about hatians eating dogs was probably an exaggeration but eating of cats and geese was not. It is part of their culture.

No it's not.

Internet videos, including one reposted by Elon Musk, alleged sacrificing and eating cats and dogs was common practice in Haitian Vodou religion. Two Caribbean and Latin American ethnologists interviewed by Deutsche Welle said these allegations were myths.

And finally, it should be noted that this is only the start of what will probably be more to come in other parts of our country with a Harris presidency.

In the past, the oligarchy outsourced factories to other countries. Now they want to move that same cheap labor into our country.

Haitian immigrants helped revive a struggling Ohio town. Then neo-Nazis turned up

Springfield’s immigrant community was targeted by far-right extremists months before Trump shared racist rumors

www.theguardian.com

“This was a false claim. I couldn’t believe that such a high official could make such a claim,” Salomon said.

Trump’s running mate JD Vance, Elon Musk and prominent Ohio Republicans had already spread the false rumors, lying about how Haitian immigrants had been killing and eating people’s pets in Springfield, a blue-collar town of 60,000 people in western Ohio. But the rumors, leaving Salomon and other Haitians in fear of being targeted for violence and discrimination, didn’t start with them.

They were initially spread online in August on social platforms used by far-right extremists and by Blood Tribe, a neo-Nazi hate group.

Springfield officials and police say they have received no credible reports of pets being harmed by members of the immigrant community, instead suggesting the story may have originated in Canton, Ohio, where an American woman with no known connection to Haiti was arrested in August for allegedly stomping a cat to death and eating the animal.

But that hasn’t prevented Republican party politicians from scapegoating Springfield’s 15,000 Haitian immigrants as Trump and others attempt to propel immigration to the center of their fall political campaigns. In addition to Tuesday’s debate, Trump held a news conference Friday in which he rambled without evidence about how Haitians had descended on Springfield “and destroyed the place”.

When Haitian immigrants began trickling into Springfield to work in local produce packaging and machining factories in 2017, some thought the new residents could help the city regain its former vigor as a once-thriving manufacturing hub. Once home to major agricultural machinery companies in the mid-20th century, Springfield has lost a quarter of its population since the 1960s.

“They came to us for one reason: they were looking for ways to find out how to work,” Casey Rollins, executive director of the St Vincent de Paul Society’s Springfield chapter, said of those who came to the Ohio city from Haiti.

“So we got together immigration lawyers and interpreters to figure out how to help them work. We are getting them online and getting them to apply [for work permits]. We wanted workers here [in Springfield] – they want to work.”

They came there to work and it increased the cities economies greatly.

And eating geese is common everywhere. It's a traditional Christmas dinner.

It is the Haitian practice of Vodou

Haitian Vodou - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"The anthropologist Alfred Métraux described Vodou as "a practical and utilitarian religion".<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haitian_Vodou#cite_note-FOOTNOTEMétraux197292-86"><span>[</span>85<span>]</span></a> Its practices largely revolve around interactions with the lwa,<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haitian_Vodou#cite_note-FOOTNOTEFernández_OlmosParavisini-Gebert2011124-201"><span>[</span>200<span>]</span></a> and incorporate song, drumming, dance, prayer, possession, and animal sacrifice"

But I view the animal sacrifice as a sideline to this anyway.

The real question everyone should be wondering is who has been behind benefaction these people while they become settled. These people did not just magically appear in Springfield en mass. I'm still not clear about this nor does anyone else seem to know. Who is paying these people enough to buy Lexis cars and have $30k bank statements on their food cards? The US government? Or is it someone else?

Who is paying so much money to so many of these people that their mere presence is causing housing and other costs to skyrocket in Springfield? Causing locals to become homeless themselves. I don't know the answer but I suspect it has something to do with wealthy corporations.

It used to be a democrat value to support the lower class labor in favor of rich corporate interests. But now it seems to be the democrats who have flipped with the conservative republicans on this position.

And before anyone chimes in saying these jobs are jobs Americans would not do, thats just more bullshit propoganda as well. Americans can and will do these low end factory jobs if the wage is enough to support their subsistence.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Anti-Demonization and spread of lies and hate about people living in the country. The lie about Hatians eating pets as one example.

If you care about reality, here is an actual video of Springfield, Ohio speaking with many people in this small town all expressing frustrations with the number of migrants that have overwhelmed their small midwest city.

Shades of Project Veritas. I suspect the film of the supporters ended up on the cutting room floor. Perhaps he should have gone to the Haitian owned restaurants that were flooded by patrons to show their support.

It should be noted this producer does many other locations and is rarely if ever political in his stance. Leading me to believe the content is real and trustworthy. It should also be noted that the lie about hatians eating dogs was probably an exaggeration but eating of cats and geese was not. It is part of their culture.

No it's not.

Internet videos, including one reposted by Elon Musk, alleged sacrificing and eating cats and dogs was common practice in Haitian Vodou religion. Two Caribbean and Latin American ethnologists interviewed by Deutsche Welle said these allegations were myths.

And finally, it should be noted that this is only the start of what will probably be more to come in other parts of our country with a Harris presidency.

In the past, the oligarchy outsourced factories to other countries. Now they want to move that same cheap labor into our country.

Haitian immigrants helped revive a struggling Ohio town. Then neo-Nazis turned up

Springfield’s immigrant community was targeted by far-right extremists months before Trump shared racist rumors

www.theguardian.com

“This was a false claim. I couldn’t believe that such a high official could make such a claim,” Salomon said.

Trump’s running mate JD Vance, Elon Musk and prominent Ohio Republicans had already spread the false rumors, lying about how Haitian immigrants had been killing and eating people’s pets in Springfield, a blue-collar town of 60,000 people in western Ohio. But the rumors, leaving Salomon and other Haitians in fear of being targeted for violence and discrimination, didn’t start with them.

They were initially spread online in August on social platforms used by far-right extremists and by Blood Tribe, a neo-Nazi hate group.

Springfield officials and police say they have received no credible reports of pets being harmed by members of the immigrant community, instead suggesting the story may have originated in Canton, Ohio, where an American woman with no known connection to Haiti was arrested in August for allegedly stomping a cat to death and eating the animal.

But that hasn’t prevented Republican party politicians from scapegoating Springfield’s 15,000 Haitian immigrants as Trump and others attempt to propel immigration to the center of their fall political campaigns. In addition to Tuesday’s debate, Trump held a news conference Friday in which he rambled without evidence about how Haitians had descended on Springfield “and destroyed the place”.

When Haitian immigrants began trickling into Springfield to work in local produce packaging and machining factories in 2017, some thought the new residents could help the city regain its former vigor as a once-thriving manufacturing hub. Once home to major agricultural machinery companies in the mid-20th century, Springfield has lost a quarter of its population since the 1960s.

“They came to us for one reason: they were looking for ways to find out how to work,” Casey Rollins, executive director of the St Vincent de Paul Society’s Springfield chapter, said of those who came to the Ohio city from Haiti.

“So we got together immigration lawyers and interpreters to figure out how to help them work. We are getting them online and getting them to apply [for work permits]. We wanted workers here [in Springfield] – they want to work.”

They came there to work and it increased the cities economies greatly.

And eating geese is common everywhere. It's a traditional Christmas dinner.

It is the Haitian practice of Vodou

Dohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haitian_Vodou#:~:text=The%20anthropologist%20Alfred%20M%C3%A9traux%20described,%2C%20possession%2C%20and%20animal%20sacrifice.

"The anthropologist Alfred Métraux described Vodou as "a practical and utilitarian religion".<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haitian_Vodou#cite_note-FOOTNOTEMétraux197292-86"><span>[</span>85<span>]</span></a> Its practices largely revolve around interactions with the lwa,<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haitian_Vodou#cite_note-FOOTNOTEFernández_OlmosParavisini-Gebert2011124-201"><span>[</span>200<span>]</span></a> and incorporate song, drumming, dance, prayer, possession, and animal sacrifice"

But I view the animal sacrifice as a sideline to this anyway.

That's good, unless you are going to bring up American ritualistic animal sacrifices at Thanksgiving, Xmas, and Easter.

The real question everyone should be wondering is who has been behind benefaction these people while they become settled. I'm still not clear about this nor does anyone else seem to know. Who is paying these people enough to buy Lexis cars and have $30k bank statements on their food cards? The US government? Or is it someone else?

Are you claiming that the Haitians are all driving Lexus vehicles and have 5 digits in their bank accounts?

Who is paying so much money to so many of these people that their mere presence is causing housing and other costs to skyrocket in Springfield?

I'm more wondering how in the heck you are getting from point A to point B. Housing costs skyrocket due to supply shortages, not because Haitian immigrants have been given beaucoup bucks.

Causing locals to become homeless themselves. I don't know the answer but I suspect it has something to do with wealthy corporations.

Or "The Jews"?

It used to be a democrat value to support the lower class labor in favor of rich corporate interests. But now it seems to be the democrats who have flipped with the conservative republicans on this position.

The conservative Republicans (along with the Democrats) sent the jobs overseas!!!

And before anyone chimes in saying these jobs are jobs Americans would not do, thats just more bullshit propoganda as well. Americans can and will do these low end factory jobs if the wage is enough to support their subsistence.

Well, according to you these Haitians be living it up, so clearly the wages are quite good.

 

[RVonse]

Anti-Demonization and spread of lies and hate about people living in the country. The lie about Hatians eating pets as one example.

If you care about reality, here is an actual video of Springfield, Ohio speaking with many people in this small town all expressing frustrations with the number of migrants that have overwhelmed their small midwest city.

It should be noted this producer does many other locations and is rarely if ever political in his stance. Leading me to believe the content is real and trustworthy. It should also be noted that the lie about hatians eating dogs was probably an exaggeration but eating of cats and geese was not. It is part of their culture. And finally, it should be noted that this is only the start of what will probably be more to come in other parts of our country with a Harris presidency.

In the past, the oligarchy outsourced factories to other countries. Now they want to move that same cheap labor into our country.

So done random guy pulls up unannounced telling some people he wants to interview them for his YouTube channel —about ‘what is going on around here.’ I would definitely not be inclined to be on the internet.

It genuinely does become an issue for communities when a large number of immigrants of any color or culture settle into a community, more so if there is a language difference, particularly schools and medical facilities. But people on this video are either grossly ignorant or out and out lying. No one has $30K in EBT benefits. Immigrants are not given thousands of dollars by the US government. Schools have English as a second language programs where students who are not yet proficient in English spend the bulk of their school day.

I highly doubt that 19 year olds are enrolling as freshmen in high school. Almost certainly, young adults would be directed to GED classes with other adults. No one is just paying for immigrants to fix their homes, but it is possible that some church groups do work with families to help them get necessities and to make sure homes are up to code.

My experience with immigrants is that they are willing to live with larger groups of people than most Americans consider, share resources well, and know how to look good for cheap. It takes courage and determination to succeed to be willing to leave your native land and live some place far from anything you know.

Fair enough. But it still looks suspiciously like a group effort managed by someone with deep pockets. Why did they all pick Springfield, Ohio en mass to settle? How did they know they were going to a particular location with prospects for work?

My great (great?) grandparents immigrated from Germany too but they did not come with food cards, housing, and expensive vehicles to settle in one place. Many of their other peers immigrating from Europe were lucky to settle in the same state less being focused in one particular town.

 

[RVonse]

Are you claiming that the Haitians are all driving Lexus vehicles and have 5 digits in their bank accounts?

The video is. And yes the video does not look fake, it looks very authentic and believable to me. It looks like real people giving their accounts, who have lived in Springfield, Ohio before and after the arrival of these immigrants.

 

[RVonse]

Causing locals to become homeless themselves. I don't know the answer but I suspect it has something to do with wealthy corporations.

Or "The Jews"?

No, the wealthy corporations. The Jewish people have nothing to do with any of this.

In case you have not noticed, the wealthy capitalists have a long US history of fighting with sharing of their profits with labor. That is exactly what this looks like to me.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Are you claiming that the Haitians are all driving Lexus vehicles and have 5 digits in their bank accounts?

The video is.

Okay... YouTube video makes claim. You sell it.

And yes the video does not look fake, it looks very authentic and believable to me.

Oh, I believe the video is real... but the claims sound quite outlandish. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary support. Luxury cars, lots of money in the bank.

It looks like real people giving their accounts, who have lived in Springfield, Ohio before and after the arrival of these immigrants.

It is a YouTube video, it can do and say whatever it wants. That isn't evidence. Jebus! Do you know the anything about referencing information?

 

[RVonse]

The video is.

Okay... YouTube video makes claim. You sell it.

Just for your pleasure lets just say the video is a total fake. How do you explain so many Haitians settling in one particular place magically coming with housing, transportation, and food? I know that my immigrant ancestors did not have anything close to this kind of help.

Who paid for this to happen?

 

[Ford]

Back to the original topic of this thread - I agree with the OP. For the first time in my life I am voting a straight ticket.

I live in a red state within a deep red county; we don't even have any Democratic candidates for local office. I have always voted a split ticket after researching the candidates, but the honest truth is that none of the Republican candidates can be trusted to safeguard and preserve our democracy. They are all promoting oligarchical ideals which will destroy our country.

So this year when I step into the voting booth, I will be voting straight Democratic. There are no local choices to be made since all the candidates are Republican so this will have no impact on my local government election.

If you had told me a couple of decades ago that I would be voting this way, I would have laughed at you. But here we are.

Ruth

I live in a state that is still red, but has been turning purple lately. Some of it is demographics (lots of people have moved here in the past 25 years) and some of it is due to the fact that since around the time of the Obama years, the GOP in the state has been taken over by the far right. Arizona has a long history of bucking the extremists, but the rise of the Tea Party led to a lot of them getting elected to state offices but more importantly gaining control of the local and state GOP organization. Back then I even talked to traditional "maverick" Republicans who expressed frustration with the right wing loons. We always had a few nut bars, but overall the GOP leaned much more moderate when I moved here in the late 90s. There were actual sane Republicans I voted for (like McCain) but now they're almost all gone.

I also used to wait in line at the VFW hall to vote, but I'll be voting by mail again this year, and it's all Democratic all the way down the ballot. There's going to be some very close races, and a slight chance that the GOP might lose control of at least one half of Congress, but I'm not holding my breath. Looks like Ruben Gallego is a lock to fill Sinema's Senate seat, so that's good, and we've got Katie Hobbs for a couple more years at least.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The video is.

Okay... YouTube video makes claim. You sell it.

Just for your pleasure lets just say the video is a total fake.

Sounds good to me.

How do you explain so many Haitians settling in one particular place magically coming with housing, transportation, and food?

Word of mouth, available employment. Something developed and grew. Things can't be all too bad in Springfield, you didn't know the place existed before the debate! Heck, I had no idea that this was a thing, and I live in Ohio. Sen. Vance hadn't mentioned it before the debate either. And he's from that general area!

 

[LoAmmo]

I’m from Springfield.

 

[Gospel]

Pro-Separation between Church and State. A big voting constituency in the MAGA world are Christian Nationalists, led by the New Apastolic Reformation movement, the fastest growing segment of Christianity today, and other Christians who are sympathetic to the viewpoint that Christians should be in control of government and that Democracy is anti-biblical and should be dismanteled. MAGA Mike, the speaker of the house, has close ties to many leaders in this movement. A Republician win would mean giving these people more power and influence in our government.

What's crazy is that the people being whipped into a frenzy to vote Jesus as supreme leader don't even realize that Jesus himself won't show up. Instead, it'll be a group of power-hungry zealots in charge, driven by their own egos. They'll turn everything distracting you from them into a sin & there will never be enough attention to satisfy them.

 

[RVonse]

I’m from Springfield.

I'd be interested in your viewpoint. How long have you lived in Springfield and what have you seen?

 

[RVonse]

How do you explain so many Haitians settling in one particular place magically coming with housing, transportation, and food?

Word of mouth, available employment. Something developed and grew. Things can't be all too bad in Springfield, you didn't know the place existed before the debate! Heck, I had no idea that this was a thing, and I live in Ohio. Sen. Vance hadn't mentioned it before the debate either. And he's from that general area!

It’s pretty much what Frank Zappa said:

"At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way, and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater."

 

[southernhybrid]

https://www.newsweek.com/republican...tian-immigrants-donald-trump-jd-vance-1954074

Ohio's Governor Mike DeWine, a Republican, defended Haitian immigrants in his state during a Sunday interview after former President Donald Trump, the GOP's presidential nominee, and his running mate Ohio Senator JD Vance, have amplified discredited accusations against the community in recent days.


Trump and Vance have repeatedly promoted claims that Haitian immigrants, who are in the United States legally, have been "eating the pets" of their neighbors in Springfield, Ohio. During Trump's debate with Democratic nominee Vice President Kamala Harris on ABC News on Tuesday, Trump said dogs and cats were being eaten by the migrants, despite local officials already saying there were no credible reports of this happening.

"In Springfield, they're eating the dogs—the people that came in," Trump claimed about Haitian immigrants. "They're eating the cats. They're eating the pets of the people that live there, and this is what's happening in our country, and it's a shame."

One of the debate moderators, ABC News' David Muir, quickly fact-checked Trump's claim and told viewers that the outlet had spoken to Springfield's city manager about those allegations who told them that "there had been no credible reports of specific claims of pets being harmed, injured or abused by individuals within the immigrant community."

During an interview with ABC News' This Week, DeWine was asked about the claims amplified by the Republican presidential ticket and conservative influencers online.

"Do you see any evidence, as governor of the state, that Haitian immigrants are eating pets?" host Martha Raddatz asked the Ohio Republican.

"No, absolutely none," DeWine responded, who went on to speak favorably of the immigrant community, pointing out that they are in the country legally—and are not undocumented as many conservatives have suggested.

"I think it's unfortunate that this came up," the governor said. "Let me tell you what we do know though. What we know is that the Haitians who are in Springfield are legal. They came to Springfield to work. Ohio is on the move, and Springfield has really made a great resurgence, with a lot of companies coming in."

DeWine explained that the Haitians are praised by the companies they work for.

So, there you go Rvonse, even the REPUBLICAN governor of Ohio has good things to say about the Haitian immigrants in Springfield. You need to start getting your information from actual reliable sources and stop spreading the lies, the bigotry and the hate that come from the MAGAs.

I've only known a couple of Haitian immigrants, dear, sweet healthcare workers, who were providing care to some of America's most pitiful, dependent people. If you learned more about the terrible conditions in Haiti, you might develop some empathy for those who are willing to go through so much to get here and add their willingness to work hard, to our country, one that has always benefitted from immigrants, regardless if they were Irish, Polish, German, African, Mexican, Haitian etc. Diversity is what makes our country better. We need these folks as much as they need us. And, as the Governor of Ohio said, these folks are all here legally.