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The Fedex Case

Yes there are bad teachers out there. I had plenty of them and I was in a good school district.
 
This reclassification of employees as independent contractors is ridiculous and should be fought vigorously. I hope they have to pay hundreds of millions of dollars in damages. If I had my way they'd pay an additional 10x in punitive damges. And it is utterly irrelevant how much money they make. The company advertises 70k, but that doesn't mean they really do. The drivers are clearly not independent contractors under the law. Their every movement is controlled by Fedex. That's an employee.

This continued effort by so many to suck up to so few is what is really destroying our nation. We have created a nation of serfs and we are quickly becoming a third world country with a few Wall Street elites and the rest of us classified as "independent contractors" with no rights to control our working conditions and forced to expend thousands of dollars just for the privilege of sucking their dicks. Fedex is just a symptom of this. This ruling, presuming the Supremes in their infinite wisdom don't overturn it, is a start. But it needs to be applied throughout the country. And it is not just employment issues. Corporate power in this country needs to be reined in. We need especially serious antitrust reform and enforcement. We need to strengthen labor rights throughout the economy. Walmart should be unionized; it should've been fined hundreds of millions of dollars after what it did to store workers who voted in favor of unions.

This is but a small victory in a long battle. I fear it will be overturned by a Supreme Court that is increasingly out of touch with the concerns of ordinary Americans and continues to think we should all just bow to our corporate masters. I fear that Americans though don't care. They continue to get their news from Fox and believe everything these right wing pundits tell them without question. As a result they vote against their own pocket book because there's a scary muslim Kenyan born n----r in the White house. And even that President is paralyzed from taking action and doesn't have the courage of his convictions to stand up for what he knows is wrong. Maybe one day we will wake up to what is going on in this country, but I fear that it will take a huge catastrophe for us to do so.

SLD
 
NobleSavage said:
If you are a truck driver and you suck you don't last very long.
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except when you do.

There are bad Truck drivers who go from company to company. in every occupation there are bad people who seem divinely favored and don't get drummed out of the corps.

Whereas large numbers of young teachers burnout and washout in the first three years.

Now we can go round and round in a nursery rhyme if you like. But it won't do any good and it won't change independent reality.
 
NobleSavage said:
It sound like you are reading way too much into what I said.
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Not really. You hear about bad teachers all the time, but few people seem to extrapolate bad workers to any other field of work. You brought it up in this thread for no reason at all.
 
Jimmy the only reason I brought up teachers is because my mother was a teacher and I know how hard they work. I was using it as a comparison to truck drivers who also work hard.

You hear about bad employees any time there is a union. Maybe you hear about teachers more because they have one of the strongest unions. I grew up in Michigan and all i ever heard was how bad the autoworkers were. There was a common saying, never buy a car made on Monday or Friday, because on Monday the autoworkers are hungover and on Friday they can't wait to get drunk. Yeah, it was a huge stereotype that wasn't true. The car companies solved the problem with robots.

The only reason we have a "40 hour work week" is because of the labor movement. I get it. Yeah, fast food workers and Walmart employees get screwed. But they are gonna be more screwed when automation replaces their job. We bitch about Walmart (including me) but what about Amazon? Amazon is competing with Walmart. Check out this video of Amazon's Kiva robots. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KRjuuEVEZs

It's just a matter of time before Walmart and McDonad's say "fuck the employees" and fire all of them.
 
For many years, the classification "independent contractor" was one of the biggest tax dodges in the world. It saves the company the matching social security and payroll taxes and shifts this burden to the worker, while giving the company the benefit of a full time employee. The IRS issued very strict guidelines to define a contractor about 30 years ago, but a lot of companies still try to get away with it.

The essential element of being a contractor is the ability to dictate when the service is provided. The employer can only give a window of time and a deadline. Fedex keeps their drivers on the road about 60 hours a week, so windows and deadlines are superfluous.
 
Out of curiosity I looked into UPS couriers. They are employees and have a union and benefits, etc. This is the catch, to get a courier job with UPS you have to sort packages for 5 to 8 years first.
 
Bronzeage said:
For many years, the classification "independent contractor" was one of the biggest tax dodges in the world. It saves the company the matching social security and payroll taxes and shifts this burden to the worker, while giving the company the benefit of a full time employee. The IRS issued very strict guidelines to define a contractor about 30 years ago, but a lot of companies still try to get away with it.

The essential element of being a contractor is the ability to dictate when the service is provided. The employer can only give a window of time and a deadline. Fedex keeps their drivers on the road about 60 hours a week, so windows and deadlines are superfluous.
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My wife is an independent contractor as a personal fitness instructor. But despite being independent, she has a clause that doesn't allow her to work for other companies while working for that company. I have no bloody clue how that is legal. WWE (the wrestling company) is likewise.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
Bronzeage said:
For many years, the classification "independent contractor" was one of the biggest tax dodges in the world. It saves the company the matching social security and payroll taxes and shifts this burden to the worker, while giving the company the benefit of a full time employee. The IRS issued very strict guidelines to define a contractor about 30 years ago, but a lot of companies still try to get away with it.

The essential element of being a contractor is the ability to dictate when the service is provided. The employer can only give a window of time and a deadline. Fedex keeps their drivers on the road about 60 hours a week, so windows and deadlines are superfluous.
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My wife is an independent contractor as a personal fitness instructor. But despite being independent, she has a clause that doesn't allow her to work for other companies while working for that company. I have no bloody clue how that is legal. WWE (the wrestling company) is likewise.
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It sounds like she'd have a case if she ever felt like bringing one.
 
NobleSavage said:
....

It's just a matter of time before Walmart and McDonad's say "fuck the employees" and fire all of them.
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I bet Wal-mart and McDonalds are just itching to replace their minimum wage drones for an army of robotics technicians. They haven't yet made the robot that installs and maintains robots.

Of course, one day soon, it will be robots all the way down.
 
Down the road, I wonder if this is going to affect my Super Saver Shipping? The article stated it had far reaching implications.

Ever get a package delivery from one of Amazon's other shipping services like Prestige? Some poor slob in a beat to shit fifteen year old van. I'm waiting for the day I see a twelve year old on a homemade trike.

Article said:
While corporations claim the contractor system gives drivers flexibility and strong incentives as "small businesses," critics say it's simply a way to shift the costs of employment onto workers and avoid payroll taxes and workers'-compensation costs.

The basic question in lawsuits involving the independent contractor model is whether or not a company like FedEx still maintains control over the work itself. In Wednesday's ruling, the judges asserted that it does.
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You have to have the ability to grow your business. Perhaps FedEx can bastardize franchise laws to work in their favor. Beats the hell out of calling them employees and all the baggage that comes with it eh FedEx?
 
TV and credit cards said:
Down the road, I wonder if this is going to affect my Super Saver Shipping? The article stated it had far reaching implications.

Ever get a package delivery from one of Amazon's other shipping services like Prestige? Some poor slob in a beat to shit fifteen year old van. I'm waiting for the day I see a twelve year old on a homemade trike.
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Bezos wants to use drones. It's all R&D, but who knows.

 
Amazon will be using Uber to deliver before it uses drones.

eta: Hey, that's probably a million dollar idea right there! I'm off to send Bezos an email and collect my check!
 
ksen said:
Amazon will be using Uber to deliver before it uses drones.

eta: Hey, that's probably a million dollar idea right there! I'm off to send Bezos an email and collect my check!
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You need to get a business method patent and then sue Uber and Bezos.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
Bronzeage said:
For many years, the classification "independent contractor" was one of the biggest tax dodges in the world. It saves the company the matching social security and payroll taxes and shifts this burden to the worker, while giving the company the benefit of a full time employee. The IRS issued very strict guidelines to define a contractor about 30 years ago, but a lot of companies still try to get away with it.

The essential element of being a contractor is the ability to dictate when the service is provided. The employer can only give a window of time and a deadline. Fedex keeps their drivers on the road about 60 hours a week, so windows and deadlines are superfluous.
Click to expand...
My wife is an independent contractor as a personal fitness instructor. But despite being independent, she has a clause that doesn't allow her to work for other companies while working for that company. I have no bloody clue how that is legal. WWE (the wrestling company) is likewise.
Click to expand...

It probably isn't.
 
Loren Pechtel said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
My wife is an independent contractor as a personal fitness instructor. But despite being independent, she has a clause that doesn't allow her to work for other companies while working for that company. I have no bloody clue how that is legal. WWE (the wrestling company) is likewise.
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It probably isn't.
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Part of my job at the hospital system was managing the contract database. Non-compete clauses were not uncommon. We paid our law firm $5k per month just to keep them on retainer. They wrote most of our contracts (for additional money, of course). I don't think these people would routinely include illegal clauses in the contracts they wrote. I am open to any hard data saying otherwise.
 
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