The High Cost of Believe Women

[laughing dog]

And when they get thrown out they still have their student loans even though they don't have the degree--they are in a financial mess for the rest of their life.

Do you have any data or evidence of this alleged problem?


One issue with the National Review article and its dupes is that typically all they know and all that is publicized is the plaintiff's allegations. Unless the suit goes to trial, privacy laws for student behavior prevent the schools from publicly airing their side.

Cases keep coming up and have on occasion been discussed here. Just because this one was mentioned in the National Review doesn't mean the others vanished.

Isolated anecdotes are not evidence of a prevalent problem, so the only way to take your answer is that you do not have any real evidence,

As I pointed out (and that you failed to address), is that the reported cases that only reveal the allegations by the plaintiffs unless the suit goes to trial - so we only get part of the story. Which means that in each instance, we don't know the entire story. Furthermore, we don't know how many of these situations are decided fairly or on point.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Yes, rape accusations on campus are overwhelming, and young men across America are fleeing higher education.

You are absolutely right Jimmy. Yes its already happening. https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/08/why-men-are-the-new-college-minority/536103/

From the article:

The problem has its origins as early as primary school, only to be fueled later on by economic forces that discourage men from believing a degree is worth the time and money.

 

[RVonse]

From the article:

The problem has its origins as early as primary school, only to be fueled later on by economic forces that discourage men from believing a degree is worth the time and money.

Loren said it best. If you risk being stuck paying all your life on student loans after getting screwed on fake charges, the degree you did not get was certainly not worth the time and money.

That is what I call a rational thought process for men. If I were a young man, I do not think I would want to risk all that money on a degree I might not even get to finish. Too much risk for too little future reward for men.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

From the article:

The problem has its origins as early as primary school, only to be fueled later on by economic forces that discourage men from believing a degree is worth the time and money.

Loren said it best. If you risk being stuck paying all your life on student loans after getting screwed on fake charges, the degree you did not get was certainly not worth the time and money.

That is what I call a rational thought process for men. If I were a young man, I do not think I would want to risk all that money on a degree I might not even get to finish. Too much risk for too little future reward for men.

Where does the article say that?

 

[RVonse]

From your own quote of the article:

"The problem has its origins as early as primary school, only to be fueled later on by economic forces that discourage men from believing a degree is worth the time and money."

Paying off a college loan for a degree you dont get is a bad return of investment any way you want to spin it.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

From your own quote of the article:

"The problem has its origins as early as primary school, only to be fueled later on by economic forces that discourage men from believing a degree is worth the time and money."

Paying off a college loan for a degree you dont get is a bad return of investment any way you want to spin it.

But the article said nothing about a degree you didn't get.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

From your own quote of the article:

"The problem has its origins as early as primary school, only to be fueled later on by economic forces that discourage men from believing a degree is worth the time and money."

Paying off a college loan for a degree you dont get is a bad return of investment any way you want to spin it.

Rape charges are not in there.

 

[scombrid]

So this one case at the University of California–Santa Barbara is proof positive of "coast to coast, accused students — typically men punished for sexual assault with barely a chance to defend themselves — are filing lawsuits containing often-shocking claims."

Stay classy National Review.

You expect them to list every such suit in the article?

At least confirmed statistics.

Otherwise it is just agenda driven fear mongering.

 

[scombrid]

That is what I call a rational thought process for men. If I were a young man, I do not think I would want to risk all that money on a degree I might not even get to finish. Too much risk for too little future reward for men.

What is the rate of false accusation preventing men from finishing degrees? You know false accusation expulsions per male enrollee or male graduate.

It isn't a rational thought process if it is based on a false perception of the true risk.

 

[laughing dog]

From your own quote of the article:

"The problem has its origins as early as primary school, only to be fueled later on by economic forces that discourage men from believing a degree is worth the time and money."

Paying off a college loan for a degree you dont get is a bad return of investment any way you want to spin it.

What makes you think that someone who is dismissed from one school does not end up with a degree from another school? Anyone who cannot figure out how to transfer those credits is really too stupid or too lazy to get a degree.

 

[poster]

So this one case at the University of California–Santa Barbara is proof positive of "coast to coast, accused students — typically men punished for sexual assault with barely a chance to defend themselves — are filing lawsuits containing often-shocking claims."

Stay classy National Review.

It's called an example, but there have been many cases of wrongful expulsions after unsubstantiated accusations. There have been many threads on a lot of those cases on here - Columbia (Mattress Girl), UND, UGA, Vasser, UVA, Occidental, Amherst etc. It is a wide-spread phenomenon, especially Obama and Biden forced universities to lower burden of proof for sexual assault investigations and only sexual assault investigations.

Which is why anecdotal threads are useless, mindless gossip. They misrepresent trends and offer only isolated examples of extreme arguments, and such threads often reflect a desire to just keep traffic buzzing on boards or....well, I'll not go there.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So this one case at the University of California–Santa Barbara is proof positive of "coast to coast, accused students — typically men punished for sexual assault with barely a chance to defend themselves — are filing lawsuits containing often-shocking claims."

Stay classy National Review.

You expect them to list every such suit in the article?

At least confirmed statistics.

Otherwise it is just agenda driven fear mongering.

As I said earlier, doing that sort of research is beyond the budget of the newspaper. And it's going to be pretty hard for a social scientist to get funding for such a project. Who is going to do it??

- - - Updated - - -

From your own quote of the article:

"The problem has its origins as early as primary school, only to be fueled later on by economic forces that discourage men from believing a degree is worth the time and money."

Paying off a college loan for a degree you dont get is a bad return of investment any way you want to spin it.

What makes you think that someone who is dismissed from one school does not end up with a degree from another school? Anyone who cannot figure out how to transfer those credits is really too stupid or too lazy to get a degree.

You think the other school is going to accept them??

 

[Patooka]

At least confirmed statistics.

Otherwise it is just agenda driven fear mongering.

As I said earlier, doing that sort of research is beyond the budget of the newspaper. And it's going to be pretty hard for a social scientist to get funding for such a project. Who is going to do it??

- - - Updated - - -

From your own quote of the article:

"The problem has its origins as early as primary school, only to be fueled later on by economic forces that discourage men from believing a degree is worth the time and money."

Paying off a college loan for a degree you dont get is a bad return of investment any way you want to spin it.

What makes you think that someone who is dismissed from one school does not end up with a degree from another school? Anyone who cannot figure out how to transfer those credits is really too stupid or too lazy to get a degree.

You think the other school is going to accept them??

Then the rhetoric and emotive language in the article is shitty agenda driven journalism. In other words, crap. And if you believe a right wing think tank wouldn't have the resources to implement such a study if there was any truth behind the argument, or a rag like the National Review would be unable to contact such a group , you're either being incredibly naive or deliberately obtuse. Pick one.

 

[Rhea]

I expect statistics, not rhetorical hyperbole. How many suits of this nature are being brought to the courts, how much this has increased over a five year period that sort of thing.

You know, facts. But then I saw it was a National Review article and realized I had unrealistic expectations. I don't think a single number was mentioned in the scare blog. "This happened one time, therefore it's happening everywhere" is a fucking terrible argument.

1) Think they have the budget for that kind of research?

2) It still only shows the tip of the iceberg anyway.

1) if they don’t have a budgt to research, they are publishing gossip that thy made up. He said, he said, right? No daa no truth.
2) it shows fucking nothng if it’s made up.

 

[laughing dog]

You think the other school is going to accept them??

It would depend on the stated reasons for the expulsion (assuming there is even a stated reason). Given that enrollments are declining, I would not be surprised if there are schools who take such students even if they know the student was expelled and the reason why.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

As I said earlier, doing that sort of research is beyond the budget of the newspaper.

First of all, horseshit. “‘That kind of research” takes ten minutes on google to find all of the recent studies and cull their findings. They wouldn’t need to conduct their OWN study; a meta-study (i.e., secondary research) would have been more than sufficient.

Secondly, if they couldn’t do a simple google search meta-study, then it was irresponsible journalism to make any such claim.

You think the other school is going to accept them??

What school has not allowed students wrongly accused back in to their school?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

As I said earlier, doing that sort of research is beyond the budget of the newspaper.

First of all, horseshit. “‘That kind of research” takes ten minutes on google to find all of the recent studies and cull their findings. They wouldn’t need to conduct their OWN study; a meta-study (i.e., secondary research) would have been more than sufficient.

Secondly, if they couldn’t do a simple google search meta-study, then it was irresponsible journalism to make any such claim.

You think the other school is going to accept them??

What school has not allowed students wrongly accused back in to their school?

You're assuming a suitable study exists. I'm saying most of the research money out there isn't going to fund something like this and I haven't heard of any such study, I doubt one exists. (If there were one one side or the other would be trumpeting it.)

 

[ruby sparks]

I suppose the newspaper could have mentioned how very low false reports of rape and sexual assault are..............you know, according to all the studies........including the ones on colleges......

 

[GenesisNemesis]

So this one case at the University of California–Santa Barbara is proof positive of "coast to coast, accused students — typically men punished for sexual assault with barely a chance to defend themselves — are filing lawsuits containing often-shocking claims."

Stay classy National Review.

It's called an example, but there have been many cases of wrongful expulsions after unsubstantiated accusations. There have been many threads on a lot of those cases on here - Columbia (Mattress Girl), UND, UGA, Vasser, UVA, Occidental, Amherst etc. It is a wide-spread phenomenon, especially Obama and Biden forced universities to lower burden of proof for sexual assault investigations and only sexual assault investigations.

7 examples doesn't make a "widespread phenomenon". You need to rethink how statistics works.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So this one case at the University of California–Santa Barbara is proof positive of "coast to coast, accused students — typically men punished for sexual assault with barely a chance to defend themselves — are filing lawsuits containing often-shocking claims."

Stay classy National Review.

It's called an example, but there have been many cases of wrongful expulsions after unsubstantiated accusations. There have been many threads on a lot of those cases on here - Columbia (Mattress Girl), UND, UGA, Vasser, UVA, Occidental, Amherst etc. It is a wide-spread phenomenon, especially Obama and Biden forced universities to lower burden of proof for sexual assault investigations and only sexual assault investigations.

7 examples doesn't make a "widespread phenomenon". You need to rethink how statistics works.

Well, in Derec's defense, if he doesn't believe it is widespread, then he has to come to grips with wasting much of his life concerning himself with over an acute, but isolated, problem, which would really seem particularly sad or depressing.