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The Highest Valued Work

Forget the current CEO thingy, and capitalism. Get in Mr. Peabody's wayback machine.

We have always valued leadership above all other labor. But what is the human feedback for irresponsible leadership? Revolution? Coup? It seems to me being able to change leaders easily with little violence is paramount, and so we have elections. But have we done something just as bad with term limits? Should we really be kicking out good leaders and bad leaders on the same time scale just to avoid the worst of bad leadership? Do our workplaces do enough to identify good leaders and not just good asskissers? Have we really studied leadership scientifically as far as how the brain works when you lead and when you follow?

What is the underlying system of picking a leader "naturally". Almost all social groups no matter how small have Leaders and Followers. How do we determine this?
 
This is a confusion of correlation and cause. An unneeded skill or an over abundant skill will pay little.

True. But the original post asks what type of work is valued. I claimed that with an ability to take on greater responsibility comes higher value, which is also true. What you've done is add a supply/demand variable that is parallel to the factor I've brought up. You're not wrong in what you say in the sense that a high skilled individual with no demand is not valuable, but it doesn't falsify the fact that with an ability to take on and successfully manage more responsibility comes greater value, it just adds another component to how we value work.
 
This is a confusion of correlation and cause. An unneeded skill or an over abundant skill will pay little.

True. But the original post asks what type of work is valued. I claimed that with an ability to take on greater responsibility comes higher value, which is also true. What you've done is add a supply/demand variable that is parallel to the factor I've brought up. You're not wrong in what you say in the sense that a high skilled individual with no demand is not valuable, but it doesn't falsify the fact that with an ability to take on and successfully manage more responsibility comes greater value, it just adds another component to how we value work.

A thing's value is only what we can exchange for it. It's rarity or the effort required to obtain it are irrelevant to value, if it cannot be exchanged.
 
Forget the current CEO thingy, and capitalism. Get in Mr. Peabody's wayback machine.

We have always valued leadership above all other labor. But what is the human feedback for irresponsible leadership? Revolution? Coup? It seems to me being able to change leaders easily with little violence is paramount, and so we have elections. But have we done something just as bad with term limits? Should we really be kicking out good leaders and bad leaders on the same time scale just to avoid the worst of bad leadership? Do our workplaces do enough to identify good leaders and not just good asskissers? Have we really studied leadership scientifically as far as how the brain works when you lead and when you follow?

What is the underlying system of picking a leader "naturally". Almost all social groups no matter how small have Leaders and Followers. How do we determine this?

I'd rather define a leader as 'one who has (voluntary) followers'. Who do you follow? Why?

Personally, I identify 3 things that make the difference between effective leaders that I would support vs. those I'd rather not follow:

1) Vision - Great ideas lead themselves. If you have a wonderful idea and a complete vision for how to achieve it, you can probably easily earn my support and effort to follow you to it's conclusion.

2) Direction - Even if it isn't your idea, if you have the best roadmap I'll follow you.

3) Experience - I might have a similar competing great idea and vision. If you can say 'Actually, we tried your exact idea last time and it failed miserably which is why my vision is to support something else', it's probably all I'll need to hear to give up my idea and follow yours. (and it always helps if you have a proven track record of successes.)

There's overlap, of course. And the success or failure of the leadership is primarily based on the circumstances. I've always said I wouldn't follow Winston Churchill out of my building if it were on fire - only because he's never been in it before and wouldn't know where the exits are. That doesn't mean he isn't a leader, just that under certain circumstances it might be better to follow someone else.

aa
 
Good thoughts. In what situations do you assume leadership? How fast do you give up your attempt to lead if it seems you have no supporters? Would you follow someone just because everyone else decides too?

This whole dynamic is curious.
 
Good thoughts. In what situations do you assume leadership? How fast do you give up your attempt to lead if it seems you have no supporters? Would you follow someone just because everyone else decides too?

This whole dynamic is curious.

The more stressful the situation, the more likely someone will assume leadership. In a crisis, the man who says, "Put your hand on the belt of the person in front of you and we're going to crawl under the smoke toward the door," will get more attention than the man who says, "I move we form a committee to study the problem."
 
ryan;
Furthermore, the leader of a team like a Lebron James, Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan, usually will end up with greater salaries, endorsements and fame than the rest of the players. In sports, they call it "leading by example

Fine, but they should not earn more than the president of the USA, or a lot more than a doctor.

Vast majority of them don't in the long-term. Consider here in the States the average career of an NFL player is 3.5 years (due to performance and/or injury) with a median salary of 700k. After those 3.5 years are done it's back to career-ground-zero. Doctors average between 170-300k (for specialists) which is practically guaranteed year after year.
 
Good thoughts. In what situations do you assume leadership? How fast do you give up your attempt to lead if it seems you have no supporters? Would you follow someone just because everyone else decides too?

This whole dynamic is curious.

"When in charge, take charge" I suppose works well enough for appointed 'leaders'. Some people earn a followership through mandate - they have employees, or a constituency, or children. Their followers will look to them first for vision and direction (primarily out of convenience, until they've earned full voluntary support). These people's primary job is to lead, direct, motivate behavior and activity, produce. They are in the role to provide vision and direction where none exist (or is limited). But I don't suppose that's the interesting answer. The real question is how did these people attain a position of 'leadership' in the first place? (I guess I know how parents get their followers). At some point they ought to have had a vision and strategy of their own, and that enough people believed in that idea, such that they were able to advance into a position of authority. I really believe that this is how the best leaders gain a following.

"All the forces in the world are not so powerful as an idea whose time has come." - Victor Hugo.

So to answer the 1st question - I assume leadership in those situations where I feel I have the most input, the best ideas, the most precise executable strategy, and valuable experience. (In all honesty, I'll almost always throw a few ideas at any problem, but I know my limitations and also ask tons of questions). Aside - I believe George Washington was extremely reluctant to be the first president. He didn't want the job, but his leadership ability and fortitude were apparent during the Revolutionary War. I guess the point is you don't have to want to assume leadership to be good at it.

#B - If I have no followers, I'm not really a leader. I may be a visionary, or a logician, or a manager, but something is obstructing my leadership ability. Maybe my communication skills are deplorable, or I have the charisma and interpersonal acumen of an injured wolverine. Or, maybe my ideas are just not as good as I believe them to be. Some hurdles can be overcome, others not. I don't think I would ever stop contributing either vision or direction, or even voting on potential courses of action. At the end of the day we want what's best for the group/organization/society. I'll gladly warm the bench as long as we win the game.

Lastly, I don't think I would follow someone just because everyone else is. I would only follow someone if I believed in their vision for what the endstate should look like. On the other hand, I have been guilty of following people whose time has probably passed. This is why I don't mind term limits. If you follow someone through very uncertain terrain and emerge victorious, it is easy to become enamored with the person (people) who led you through it. "I'd follow this person anywhere through anything." I'm sure Adolf Hitler had that kind of electricity with the German people at some point. (godwin, I know). I'd hope we have more caution than that when deciding whom to follow. That's not to say every leader will eventually turn into Hitler, but even if you have the 'world's best boss' their vision may start to fade, or even worse, become fully realized - so now what?

Hugo said nothing is as powerful as an idea whose time has come, but I think ideas have an expiration date as well. Going back to effective leadership being circumstantial, I believe different people bring different talents to bear on different circumstances. One has to see through the charisma of the visionary in order to evaluate the merits of the vision itself. Will this idea work in these circumstances? Does it solve a problem(s)? Will we all be better off after it's conclusion? Generally, I find that people know how to evaluate ideas and leaders, but I think they become lazy - "I don't want to evaluate another idea or another person. I've already vetted this guy's ideas, I'll just stick with him" - or complacent - "who cares about the shortest, most efficient, cost effective way to get there, as long as we get there."

I agree it's a curious dynamic.

aa
 
Thinking about how humans value work.

Postulate: We value those that take responsibility and make decisions for others. We value the work of leaders above all.

Discuss.
I have not forgotten the old 60s adage "Don't follow leaders". When I see someone who is panting to "take responsibility and make decisions for others", I don't value that person, I dread and avoid him or her.
 
Thinking about how humans value work.

Postulate: We value those that take responsibility and make decisions for others. We value the work of leaders above all.

Discuss.
I have not forgotten the old 60s adage "Don't follow leaders". When I see someone who is panting to "take responsibility and make decisions for others", I don't value that person, I dread and avoid him or her.
I'm glad your peers led you to that conclusion. At least you can be non-conformist together, while the world around you is led into the darkest time in the history of mankind.

Those who developed the tech to connect minds play a game with the non-conformists.... a hunt, of sorts. Do not run.
 
Thinking about how humans value work.

Postulate: We value those that take responsibility and make decisions for others. We value the work of leaders above all.

Discuss.
I have not forgotten the old 60s adage "Don't follow leaders". When I see someone who is panting to "take responsibility and make decisions for others", I don't value that person, I dread and avoid him or her.
I'm glad your peers led you to that conclusion. At least you can be non-conformist together, while the world around you is led into the darkest time in the history of mankind.

Those who developed the tech to connect minds play a game with the non-conformists.... a hunt, of sorts. Do not run.
You want to think about dark times in human history?-->a lot of my "non-conformist" peers were entranced by Mao, some still pined for Stalin; in my youth, a few older people, not my peers still covertly liked Hitler (all of whom WANTED to lead, and convinced others they were indispensible leaders]; then, in a democratic country, there was the shadowy time of the desperate-to-be-President Nixon in the US.
No, no, people who pant for power to lead others, who really really want it, are dangerous; even Game of Thrones knows that.
 
Thinking about how humans value work.

Postulate: We value those that take responsibility and make decisions for others. We value the work of leaders above all.

Discuss.
I have not forgotten the old 60s adage "Don't follow leaders". When I see someone who is panting to "take responsibility and make decisions for others", I don't value that person, I dread and avoid him or her.
I'm glad your peers led you to that conclusion. At least you can be non-conformist together, while the world around you is led into the darkest time in the history of mankind.

Those who developed the tech to connect minds play a game with the non-conformists.... a hunt, of sorts. Do not run.
You want to think about dark times in human history?-->a lot of my "non-conformist" peers were entranced by Mao, some still pined for Stalin; in my youth, a few older people, not my peers still covertly liked Hitler (all of whom WANTED to lead, and convinced others they were indispensible leaders]; then, in a democratic country, there was the shadowy time of the desperate-to-be-President Nixon in the US.
No, no, people who pant for power to lead others, who really really want it, are dangerous; even Game of Thrones knows that.
So people who enjoy teaching are dangerous? So people who want to lead a dance are dangerous? So people who want to develop certain forms of entertainment are dangerous (well, I suppose you could say that Lucas is dangerous because Han fired second)....
 
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