The human mind

[untermensche]

Hardly a little word.

It is what gives meaning to life.

The autonomous mind makes life worth living.

Your antagonism to your autonomous mind is not interesting.

 

[DBT]

Autonomous mind is an assumption. Given the evidence from physics, neuroscience, case studies, experiments, evaluations, etc, autonomy of mind is a false assumption.

 

[untermensche]

Autonomous mind is an assumption. Given the evidence from physics, neuroscience, case studies, experiments, evaluations, etc, autonomy of mind is a false assumption.

You have no evidence that explains how the mind works.

 

[DBT]

Autonomous mind is an assumption. Given the evidence from physics, neuroscience, case studies, experiments, evaluations, etc, autonomy of mind is a false assumption.

You have no evidence that explains how the mind works.

Yawn....we are back to that Red Herring again.

No need to explain how a brain generates mind order to understand that it is in fact the brain that generates mind. That is the point you dance around.

You dance around the the physics of cognition, the timing between input and response, experiments, case studies, analysis and so on, all ignored by you while repeating your notion of autonomy of mind.

 

[untermensche]

Autonomous mind is an assumption. Given the evidence from physics, neuroscience, case studies, experiments, evaluations, etc, autonomy of mind is a false assumption.

You have no evidence that explains how the mind works.

No need to explain how a brain generates mind order to understand that it is in fact the brain that generates mind. That is the point you dance around.

I don't dance around this dense shit I am forced to wade through it constantly.

It is meaningless.

Knowing the thing that creates the mind tells us absolutely nothing about the nature of the mind or the capabilities of a mind once created.

Saying "the brain created it" over and over mindlessly is totally meaningless.

Talking about the physics of some phenomena you don't understand is stupidity.

 

[fromderinside]

Hardly a little word.

It is what gives meaning to life.

The autonomous mind makes life worth living.

Your antagonism to your autonomous mind is not interesting.

When you can explain why irrational explanations served man's interests for thousands resulting in nothing war, disease and harm, to finally be replaced by empirically derived explanations that works then I'll consider the meaning of your autonomous worth of being ridden with war, disease and harm.

Hell, I might even invent some God or another. Hell, there's another invention of the autonomous mind.

Look after you get tired of admiring your Barlow Face detector you might consider whether there is any relevance to it being found in the minds of cats.

 

[untermensche]

Hardly a little word.

It is what gives meaning to life.

The autonomous mind makes life worth living.

Your antagonism to your autonomous mind is not interesting.

When you can explain why irrational explanations served man's interests for thousands resulting in nothing war, disease and harm, to finally be replaced by empirically derived explanations that works then I'll consider the meaning of your autonomous worth of being ridden with war, disease and harm.

Hell, I might even invent some God or another. Hell, there's another invention of the autonomous mind.

Look after you get tired of admiring your Barlow Face detector you might consider whether there is any relevance to it being found in the minds of cats.

What is not autonomous about the king who orders others to fight his war?

Or the man who fights it because he is too much a coward not to?

What is not autonomous about the preacher having position and prestige telling stories to people who autonomously want to believe them?

 

[DBT]

No need to explain how a brain generates mind order to understand that it is in fact the brain that generates mind. That is the point you dance around.

I don't dance around this dense shit I am forced to wade through it constantly.

It is meaningless.

Knowing the thing that creates the mind tells us absolutely nothing about the nature of the mind or the capabilities of a mind once created.

Saying "the brain created it" over and over mindlessly is totally meaningless.

Talking about the physics of some phenomena you don't understand is stupidity.

Now you are crying about it. You dance like a Ballerina.

You are on your own on this issue. Your idea of autonomy of mind is not supported by research,evidence or anything else objective. You base your notion on subjective experience, even while ignoring how your subjective experience is being produced by your brain.

 

[fromderinside]

If he's doing ballet he's doing it poorly on imaginary crutches.

 

[untermensche]

No need to explain how a brain generates mind order to understand that it is in fact the brain that generates mind. That is the point you dance around.

I don't dance around this dense shit I am forced to wade through it constantly.

It is meaningless.

Knowing the thing that creates the mind tells us absolutely nothing about the nature of the mind or the capabilities of a mind once created.

Saying "the brain created it" over and over mindlessly is totally meaningless.

Talking about the physics of some phenomena you don't understand is stupidity.

Now you are crying about it. You dance like a Ballerina.

You are on your own on this issue. Your idea of autonomy of mind is not supported by research,evidence or anything else objective. You base your notion on subjective experience, even while ignoring how your subjective experience is being produced by your brain.

Knowing the mind is created by some unknown activity will never tell you what the mind is or what it can do.

Droning over and over "the brain created it" is a sign of serious stupidity and blindness to rational thought.

The autonomy of mind is demonstrated by a mind that chooses to believe something. Even if it is stupidity.

 

[fromderinside]

Proof of the pudding then?

 

[untermensche]

It's called a rational conclusion.

If autonomy is required to do something then it must be there.

If a person is expected to make a meaningful guess about the time they began some movement of their hand they need the autonomy to do it.

In present day neuroscience these guesses are called objective evidence.

The fact that humans can make autonomous guesses about the timing of things is a given in present day studies.

 

[DBT]

Now you are crying about it. You dance like a Ballerina.

You are on your own on this issue. Your idea of autonomy of mind is not supported by research,evidence or anything else objective. You base your notion on subjective experience, even while ignoring how your subjective experience is being produced by your brain.

Knowing the mind is created by some unknown activity will never tell you what the mind is or what it can do.

Droning over and over "the brain created it" is a sign of serious stupidity and blindness to rational thought.

The autonomy of mind is demonstrated by a mind that chooses to believe something. Even if it is stupidity.

That's the Strawman you like to use. Your favourite. You use it time and time again. It doesn't work. The reasons that it doesn't work have been patiently explained to you, over and over.

 

[untermensche]

Now you are crying about it. You dance like a Ballerina.

You are on your own on this issue. Your idea of autonomy of mind is not supported by research,evidence or anything else objective. You base your notion on subjective experience, even while ignoring how your subjective experience is being produced by your brain.

Knowing the mind is created by some unknown activity will never tell you what the mind is or what it can do.

Droning over and over "the brain created it" is a sign of serious stupidity and blindness to rational thought.

The autonomy of mind is demonstrated by a mind that chooses to believe something. Even if it is stupidity.

That's the Strawman you like to use. Your favourite. You use it time and time again. It doesn't work. The reasons that it doesn't work have been patiently explained to you, over and over.

It is no strawman.

It is beyond question.

You simply do not have a mind that can comprehend it.

That's the thing about minds. They have the autonomy to believe things but they also have limitations based on abilities to understand.

You are the one that presented the study where subjects were asked to guess about the timing of voluntary movements.

Inherent to that endeavor is the ability of people to make autonomous guesses about the timing of things.

But you don't understand that.

 

[fromderinside]

It's called a rational conclusion.

If autonomy is required to do something then it must be there.

If a person is expected to make a meaningful guess about the time they began some movement of their hand they need the autonomy to do it.

In present day neuroscience these guesses are called objective evidence.

The fact that humans can make autonomous guesses about the timing of things is a given in present day studies.

Apparently results for cannon automatic sighting conducted in WWII* passed right past without you noticing. Machines are able to take radar data and 'correct' range finding and targeting using 'memory' of previous tries versus current data. For your benefit lets call them autonomous guesses. Theories developed from this kind of study resulted in development of  Signal Detection Theory** (SDT). It's a model based on the concept of real observers compared with ideal observers which resulted in algorithms which produced objective estimates for future behavior. Couple that with  Bayes theorum*** and we have a nice bit of computation which does a great job of mimicking the guessing used in Libet's study putting your claim of autonomy into the shitter.

^{_{*Marcum, J. I. (1947). "A Statistical Theory of Target Detection by Pulsed Radar". The Research Memorandum: 90. Retrieved 2009-06-28.}}​
^{_{**Peterson, W.W., Birdsall, T. G. & Fox, W. C. (1954) The theory of signal detectability. Proceedings of the IRE Professional Group on Information Theory 4, 171-212.
***Bayes, Thomas & Price, Richard (1763). "An Essay towards solving a Problem in the Doctrine of Chance. By the late Rev. Mr. Bayes, communicated by Mr. Price, in a letter to John Canton, A. M. F. R.}}

 

[untermensche]

Machines have been designed by autonomous minds to do all kinds of things.

But without an autonomous mind none would exist.

 

[fromderinside]

If you read the material you'll understand nothing is autonomous. Complexity is not a way to cause emergence it is a way to do complex things.

 

[untermensche]

The humans who created the machines based on ideas in the mind needed autonomy to do it.

 

[fromderinside]

Obviously my post went over your head. Complexity does not autonomy make.

 

[untermensche]

Obviously my post went over your head. Complexity does not autonomy make.

No, but the purposeful design of anything does.