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The idea of an infinite past

beero1000 said:
fast said:
Beero, is infinity a number?
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What definition of number are you using?
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Whatever definition is meant when discussing things like natural numbers, whole numbers, integers, and rational numbers.

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Speakpigeon said:
beero1000 said:
fast said:
Beero, is infinity a number?
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What definition of number are you using?
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Don't get him started... :p
EB
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Yeah, can't you just imagine me talking about imaginary numbers, lol
 
fast said:
Whatever definition is meant when discussing things like natural numbers, whole numbers, integers, and rational numbers.
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That's exactly what I'm trying to get you to clarify. Most people just rely on a vague implicit "I know it when I see it" definition for what counts as a 'number' that breaks down fairly quickly when scrutinized, especially when counter-intuitive concepts like infinity are considered.

Would you accept these Merriam-Webster definitions?
(1) : a unit belonging to an abstract mathematical system and subject to specified laws of succession, addition, and multiplication
(2) : an element (such as π) of any of many mathematical systems obtained by extension of or analogy with the natural number system
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If so, then I don't see why infinity shouldn't be a number. Of course, it isn't a member of the standard number systems (naturals, integers, rationals, reals, complex, etc), so you may see people saying "Infinity is not a number" but that's an answer to a different question.
 
Null is not a number either. But it's as real and as important a concept as three, or two hundred and sixty eight. At least, it is if you are interested in databases.

Infinity, like null, has little utility for many people. But for those who work with environments that require it, such as cosmology, or calculus, or pure mathematics, it is real, useful and important.

I don't have a lot of use for two hundred and sixty eight; but I stop short of demanding that it must not exist, or of declaring anyone who uses it to be delusional.
 
Just as well because I claim 268 as my property and I might sue you if you ever tried to use it. :glare:
EB
 
bilby said:
Null is not a number either. But it's as real and as important a concept as three, or two hundred and sixty eight. At least, it is if you are interested in databases.

Infinity, like null, has little utility for many people. But for those who work with environments that require it, such as cosmology, or calculus, or pure mathematics, it is real, useful and important.

I don't have a lot of use for two hundred and sixty eight; but I stop short of demanding that it must not exist, or of declaring anyone who uses it to be delusional.
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Infinity is not a real number.

"Infinity (symbol: ∞) is a concept describing something without any bound or larger than any natural number. ... In mathematics, "infinity" is often treated as a number (i.e., it counts or measures things: "an infinite number of terms") but it is not the same sort of number as either a natural or a real number." Wiki

:EDIT:

And neither is complex infinity.

But meh this semantics... :)
 
Beer With Straw said:
bilby said:
Null is not a number either. But it's as real and as important a concept as three, or two hundred and sixty eight. At least, it is if you are interested in databases.

Infinity, like null, has little utility for many people. But for those who work with environments that require it, such as cosmology, or calculus, or pure mathematics, it is real, useful and important.

I don't have a lot of use for two hundred and sixty eight; but I stop short of demanding that it must not exist, or of declaring anyone who uses it to be delusional.
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Infinity is not a real number.

"Infinity (symbol: ∞) is a concept describing something without any bound or larger than any natural number. ... In mathematics, "infinity" is often treated as a number (i.e., it counts or measures things: "an infinite number of terms") but it is not the same sort of number as either a natural or a real number." Wiki
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Lots of useful and real numbers are not members of the set perhaps misleadingly known as the Real Numbers. Null is another example.

In some ways, you could perhaps say that null is the opposite of infinity. It's so nothing that it isn't even zero; and infinity is so something that it isn't as small as the biggest number you can choose. Of course, many mathematicians would resile from such whimsy.
 
bilby said:
Beer With Straw said:
bilby said:
Null is not a number either. But it's as real and as important a concept as three, or two hundred and sixty eight. At least, it is if you are interested in databases.

Infinity, like null, has little utility for many people. But for those who work with environments that require it, such as cosmology, or calculus, or pure mathematics, it is real, useful and important.

I don't have a lot of use for two hundred and sixty eight; but I stop short of demanding that it must not exist, or of declaring anyone who uses it to be delusional.
Click to expand...


Infinity is not a real number.

"Infinity (symbol: ∞) is a concept describing something without any bound or larger than any natural number. ... In mathematics, "infinity" is often treated as a number (i.e., it counts or measures things: "an infinite number of terms") but it is not the same sort of number as either a natural or a real number." Wiki
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Lots of useful and real numbers are not members of the set perhaps misleadingly known as the Real Numbers. Null is another example.
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Imaginary numbers can be used in addition to the set of Reals, but are not part of the same set.

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/RealNumber.html
 
bilby said:
Beer With Straw said:
bilby said:
Lots of useful and real numbers are not members of the set perhaps misleadingly known as the Real Numbers. Null is another example.
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Imaginary numbers can used in addition to the set of Reals, but are not part of the same set.

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/RealNumber.html
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Indeed.
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I edited my post with :can be...

:EDIT:

I'm also I'm also conversing with some dude that says his truck simply vanished with no trace, so, I'd like a bit leniency if you would believe I'm bit distracted.... But that's not here on this forum.
 
Beer With Straw said:
bilby said:
Indeed.
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I edited my post with :can be...

:EDIT:

I'm also I'm also conversing with some dude that says his truck simply vanished with no trace, so, I'd like a bit leniency if you would believe I'm bit distracted.... But that's not here on this forum.
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That's OK, I read it as 'can be' and wouldn't have noticed your omission or correction if you hadn't pointed it out to me.

I added to my post too :)



You could point out to your other correspondent that highly skilled vehicle thieves, while rare, are nevertheless far more common than supernatural events.
 
bilby said:
Beer With Straw said:
bilby said:
Indeed.
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I edited my post with :can be...

:EDIT:

I'm also I'm also conversing with some dude that says his truck simply vanished with no trace, so, I'd like a bit leniency if you would believe I'm bit distracted.... But that's not here on this forum.
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That's OK, I read it as 'can be' and wouldn't have noticed your omission or correction if you hadn't pointed it out to me.

I added to my post too :)



You could point out to your other correspondent that highly skilled vehicle thieves, while rare, are nevertheless far more common than supernatural events.
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http://www.sciforums.com/threads/man-literally-vanishes-into-thin-air.160648/page-2#post-3509624

eh...
 
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