The idea of an infinite past

[Speakpigeon]

Unter, you seem to somehow disagree with the notion of possibility I'm using here. If that's so, please try to explain yourself.

Here it is:

More precisely, however, I think that the notion of possibility is that of no contradiction with what we know of reality. I can't see how a more restrictive notion of possibility could be cogent. On this understanding, I believe an infinite past would be possible. Certainly, nobody here brought up any contradiction with known facts.

Can you try that?
EB

 

[Juma]

If infinity/eternity is not possible, how did time/space/universe begin? A first cause? A causeless first cause?

Since real completed infinities are assumed to be impossible until they can be proven to be possible we can reasonably assume the past was finite.

Do you disagree?

If not you have to prove a real completed infinity is possible.

Go for it.

Oh no. YOU have the burden of proof that it should be assumed impoible.
Provide OR SHUT THE FUCK UP!

 

[untermensche]

Unter, you seem to somehow disagree with the notion of possibility I'm using here. If that's so, please try to explain yourself.

Here it is:

More precisely, however, I think that the notion of possibility is that of no contradiction with what we know of reality. I can't see how a more restrictive notion of possibility could be cogent. On this understanding, I believe an infinite past would be possible. Certainly, nobody here brought up any contradiction with known facts.

Can you try that?
EB

My notion is that to claim something is a possibility is a positive claim not a neutral claim.

There are rational methods to deal with positive claims.

Can you do anything with that?

 

[untermensche]

If infinity/eternity is not possible, how did time/space/universe begin? A first cause? A causeless first cause?

Since real completed infinities are assumed to be impossible until they can be proven to be possible we can reasonably assume the past was finite.

Do you disagree?

If not you have to prove a real completed infinity is possible.

Go for it.

Oh no. YOU have the burden of proof that it should be assumed impoible.
Provide OR SHUT THE FUCK UP!

So you can in no way demonstrate a real completed infinity is possible?

And therefore you think it is rational to think it is possible?

How do you do that?

If you can't demonstrate it is possible the rational position is that it is not.

 

[Speakpigeon]

My notion is that to claim something is a possibility is a positive claim not a neutral claim.

There are rational methods to deal with positive claims.

Can you do anything with that?

I already did.
EB

 

[untermensche]

My notion is that to claim something is a possibility is a positive claim not a neutral claim.

There are rational methods to deal with positive claims.

Can you do anything with that?

I already did.
EB

I am not making claims. I am making rational conclusions.

If something cannot be shown to be possible the rational position is that it is not.

Why should anybody entertain this absurd notion that real completed infinities are possible for one second?

 

[Elixir]

If something cannot be shown to be possible the rational position is that it is not.

NOTHING can be proven to be "possible". They either happen or they don't. Assignment of "impossibility" to that which has not been directly observed might seem rational to the assigning party, but in truth it's only an opinion.

 

[untermensche]

If something cannot be shown to be possible the rational position is that it is not.

NOTHING can be proven to be "possible". They either happen or they don't. Assignment of "impossibility" to that which has not been directly observed might seem rational to the assigning party, but in truth it's only an opinion.

Yes, when you do something you have proven it is possible.

But if there is no way to even imagine something is possible how do we conclude it is possible?

How would you imagine a real completed infinity could be possible?

Can you imagine imaginary numbers used as a real world quantity is possible too?

 

[DBT]

If infinity/eternity is not possible, how did time/space/universe begin? A first cause? A causeless first cause?

Since real completed infinities are assumed to be impossible until they can be proven to be possible we can reasonably assume the past was finite.

Do you disagree?

If not you have to prove a real completed infinity is possible.

Go for it.

You avoided my question.

 

[Kharakov]

If infinity/eternity is not possible, how did time/space/universe begin? A first cause? A causeless first cause?

Since real completed infinities are assumed to be impossible until they can be proven to be possible we can reasonably assume the past was finite.

Do you disagree?

If not you have to prove a real completed infinity is possible.

Go for it.

You avoided my question.

Does untermensche ever give a correct answer?

 

[Juma]

If you can't demonstrate it is possible the rational position is that it is not.

Wow! That was the most extreme display of trust I ever got!
Or is that you have no clue what you are saying? Hmm. Sadly I think its the latter....

 

[untermensche]

If you can't demonstrate it is possible the rational position is that it is not.

Wow! That was the most extreme display of trust I ever got!
Or is that you have no clue what you are saying? Hmm. Sadly I think its the latter....

Trust?

It is called rational skepticism.

That you can't see it is telling.

 

[untermensche]

If infinity/eternity is not possible, how did time/space/universe begin? A first cause? A causeless first cause?

Since real completed infinities are assumed to be impossible until they can be proven to be possible we can reasonably assume the past was finite.

Do you disagree?

If not you have to prove a real completed infinity is possible.

Go for it.

You avoided my question.

I have had several dealings with you.

You have never once answered a question put to you.

Here is just another example.

I don't give a shit about your stupidity about first causes.

Since the past was finite because infinity is not a real concept, it is like trying to apply imaginary numbers to some real world quantity, then all we can observe in some way had a beginning.

That is all I know for certain on the matter.

 

[Elixir]

If something cannot be shown to be possible the rational position is that it is not.

NOTHING can be proven to be "possible". They either happen or they don't. Assignment of "impossibility" to that which has not been directly observed might seem rational to the assigning party, but in truth it's only an opinion.

Yes, when you do something you have proven it is possible.

No, that only proves that it WAS possible (when it occurred). Which doesn't make it rational to assume the converse (that when you don't do something you have proven it impossible). We are finite beings with finite powers of perception - it would irrational to expect such finite entities to experience infinite anything. But that doesn't rule out the infinite as "possible". Unless, of course, your mission is to semantically destroy the utility of the words "possible" and "Impossible", so that only that which occurs is possible and that which does not (to our knowledge) is impossible. That would be stupid, don't you agree?

how do we conclude it is possible?

The same way we conclude that anything else we haven't experienced directly is possible. Lack of universally prohibitive factors and conditions would be the only requirement. The limits of our perception and imagination are NOT such factors.

How would you imagine a real completed infinity could be possible?

"Completed infinity" is an oxymoron.

Can you imagine imaginary numbers used as a real world quantity is possible too?

Yes, I CAN imagine that. Why can't you?

 

[Juma]

If you can't demonstrate it is possible the rational position is that it is not.

Wow! That was the most extreme display of trust I ever got!
Or is that you have no clue what you are saying? Hmm. Sadly I think its the latter....

Trust?

It is called rational skepticism.

That you can't see it is telling.

You dont get it...
Bye..

 

[untermensche]

Yes, when you do something you have proven it is possible.

No, that only proves that it WAS possible (when it occurred). Which doesn't make it rational to assume the converse (that when you don't do something you have proven it impossible). We are finite beings with finite powers of perception - it would irrational to expect such finite entities to experience infinite anything. But that doesn't rule out the infinite as "possible". Unless, of course, your mission is to semantically destroy the utility of the words "possible" and "Impossible", so that only that which occurs is possible and that which does not (to our knowledge) is impossible. That would be stupid, don't you agree?

how do we conclude it is possible?

The same way we conclude that anything else we haven't experienced directly is possible. Lack of universally prohibitive factors and conditions would be the only requirement. The limits of our perception and imagination are NOT such factors.

How would you imagine a real completed infinity could be possible?

"Completed infinity" is an oxymoron.

Can you imagine imaginary numbers used as a real world quantity is possible too?

Yes, I CAN imagine that. View attachment 15016 Why can't you?

So what would an quantity of such a thing look like?

You showed me a graph, a total abstraction from reality.

 

[Elixir]

Yes, when you do something you have proven it is possible.

No, that only proves that it WAS possible (when it occurred). Which doesn't make it rational to assume the converse (that when you don't do something you have proven it impossible). We are finite beings with finite powers of perception - it would irrational to expect such finite entities to experience infinite anything. But that doesn't rule out the infinite as "possible". Unless, of course, your mission is to semantically destroy the utility of the words "possible" and "Impossible", so that only that which occurs is possible and that which does not (to our knowledge) is impossible. That would be stupid, don't you agree?

how do we conclude it is possible?

The same way we conclude that anything else we haven't experienced directly is possible. Lack of universally prohibitive factors and conditions would be the only requirement. The limits of our perception and imagination are NOT such factors.

How would you imagine a real completed infinity could be possible?

"Completed infinity" is an oxymoron.

Can you imagine imaginary numbers used as a real world quantity is possible too?

Yes, I CAN imagine that. View attachment 15016 Why can't you?

One of my favotire quotes:

If an elderly but distinguished scientist says that something is possible, he is almost certainly right; but if he says that it is impossible, he is very probably wrong.

I don't know if you are elderly or distinguished or a scientist, but in this instance it doesn't really matter.

 

[untermensche]

Trust?

It is called rational skepticism.

That you can't see it is telling.

You dont get it...
Bye..

No. You have no reply so instead of admitting your mistake you are running away like a child.

Goodbye.

 

[Elixir]

One of my favotire quotes:

If an elderly but distinguished scientist says that something is possible, he is almost certainly right; but if he says that it is impossible, he is very probably wrong.

I don't know if you are elderly or distinguished or a scientist, but in this instance it doesn't really matter.

So what would an quantity of such a thing look like?

Why would its appearance to you, matter to the question of its possible existence?

You showed me a graph, a total abstraction from reality.

No, it's a real graph - believe it or not.

 

[untermensche]

If an elderly but distinguished scientist says that something is possible, he is almost certainly right; but if he says that it is impossible, he is very probably wrong.

I don't know if you are elderly or distinguished or a scientist, but in this instance it doesn't really matter.

Do you have a clue how irrational an argument this is?

How is it possible to apply totally imaginary concepts to reality?

It is just making shit up.

What if I said that a giant spirit of Elvis was floating just outside the universe?

Would you gleefully tell me not to laugh because it is very possible?

- - - Updated - - -

No, it's a real graph - believe it or not.

It's not a real imaginary number.

It's lines and symbols. Big wup!