The killing of Ma’Khia Bryant

[barbos]

Do we know what was that knife fight about?

 

[Harry Bosch]

All depends on why you called 911. Is someone trying to break into your house? Is your partner depressed and suicidal and you need help talking them off the ledge? Is your autistic son having a breakdown?

If police were actually trained and good at deescalation and dealing with mental illness then sending cops to everything is fine. However, that just isn't the case anymore. If we can demilitarize the police and stop training them like their going to war, that's a good first step. Just getting more cops and buying them more/bigger guns isn't going to fix. Maybe put more money into incentivizing cops to actually live in the community they police. Pay police more and develop of culture of service and protection rather training cops to keep people in line.

I'm not really for defunding or abolishing or whatever. I'm for figuring out what actually works and what is the correct solution. The way we're going now isn't good enough.

Harry, if i were a 911 operator and you called and said "I'm in trouble.", I'd refer you to Planned Parenthood.
Aside from the right training, the nonagressive, deescalation training that some law enforcement do do, they need to weed out and stop hiring these Rambo types, those with aggressive type personalities. All the proper training in the world isn't going to change who they are. They're assholes. Always and forever. And they have no business being placed in a position of authority.

I agree with you. 100%. However, here's the problem: these jobs pay shit. Open minded people with college educations are not going to apply for jobs that are dangerous, hated by everyone, and pay crap. If we really want better police outcomes in our communities: we'd support the good ones, dramatically increase their training, screen them better, and increase their wages. We get the police force that we deserve.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

She's not the one that called, someone in the house did.

That being said, the more I think about the case the more it bothers me--if she was as reported a good student this represents a pretty extreme departure from that. I have also read she was in foster care. I'm thinking she was being made the victim and whoever was taking care of her didn't care until it looked like blood might be spilled.

Wow, that is an incredible about of presumption in such a short paragraph.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

i saw the video and actually agree that the officer was in the right on this one. at least she wasn't shot in the back while running away and not immediately threatening someone with a deadly weapon. i think i heard NPR say that it was Bryant who called the police in the first place.

police do not need to respond to every emergency and THAT is the real goal of the defund the police movement. it's just really poor marketing.

one side will say "look at the cops murdering all the black people" and the other side will say "see cops are right to use force" and both side is way too stupid to understand the difference in the cases.

So, in your conception of "defund the police" -- which, again, has it's ideological roots in the prison/police *abolition* movement, so I gotta ask -- would police not have responded to this particular call?

The outcome, then, would have probably been a serious stabbing injury, with a high likelihood of death.

This presumes the knife attack is going to happen and couldn't have been prevented. If someone is lunging with the knife, regrettable action must be taken. But the question is, could this have been prevented. I haven't the faintest clue.

The Police in some situations seem incapable of deescalating, though often these are the cases we usually hear about. "Cop gets suspect to drop knife" doesn't make the news.

 

[Harry Bosch]

i saw the video and actually agree that the officer was in the right on this one. at least she wasn't shot in the back while running away and not immediately threatening someone with a deadly weapon. i think i heard NPR say that it was Bryant who called the police in the first place.

police do not need to respond to every emergency and THAT is the real goal of the defund the police movement. it's just really poor marketing.

one side will say "look at the cops murdering all the black people" and the other side will say "see cops are right to use force" and both side is way too stupid to understand the difference in the cases.

So, in your conception of "defund the police" -- which, again, has it's ideological roots in the prison/police *abolition* movement, so I gotta ask -- would police not have responded to this particular call?

The outcome, then, would have probably been a serious stabbing injury, with a high likelihood of death.

This presumes the knife attack is going to happen and couldn't have been prevented. If someone is lunging with the knife, regrettable action must be taken. But the question is, could this have been prevented. I haven't the faintest clue.

The Police in some situations seem incapable of deescalating, though often these are the cases we usually hear about. "Cop gets suspect to drop knife" doesn't make the news.

Jimmy: it's my understanding that the cop got to the scene just as Bryant was lunging with the knife. This cop probably saved the other person's life.

 

[repoman]

Why are black people so racially narcissistic? Black girl magic?

 

[ZiprHead]

This presumes the knife attack is going to happen and couldn't have been prevented. If someone is lunging with the knife, regrettable action must be taken. But the question is, could this have been prevented. I haven't the faintest clue.

The Police in some situations seem incapable of deescalating, though often these are the cases we usually hear about. "Cop gets suspect to drop knife" doesn't make the news.

Jimmy: it's my understanding that the cop got to the scene just as Bryant was lunging with the knife. This cop probably saved the other person's life.

I'm leaning towards this ^.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

This presumes the knife attack is going to happen and couldn't have been prevented. If someone is lunging with the knife, regrettable action must be taken. But the question is, could this have been prevented. I haven't the faintest clue.

The Police in some situations seem incapable of deescalating, though often these are the cases we usually hear about. "Cop gets suspect to drop knife" doesn't make the news.

Jimmy: it's my understanding that the cop got to the scene just as Bryant was lunging with the knife. This cop probably saved the other person's life.

If that is the case, then yeah, seems like there weren't many options.

 

[LoAmmo]

It seems like the kind of scenario tasers are supposedly so good at: ending the threat quickly but non-lethally. ( 99.9% of the time or whatever it is.)

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I won’t question the use of force if imminent threat to life is at play. Some officers use force when they don’t want to, there is no other option.

The trouble are the officers that use force because they want to.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

This presumes the knife attack is going to happen and couldn't have been prevented. If someone is lunging with the knife, regrettable action must be taken. But the question is, could this have been prevented. I haven't the faintest clue.

The Police in some situations seem incapable of deescalating, though often these are the cases we usually hear about. "Cop gets suspect to drop knife" doesn't make the news.

Deescalation takes time. As typically happens these cases go down so fast there's no time to do much of anything.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It seems like the kind of scenario tasers are supposedly so good at: ending the threat quickly but non-lethally. ( 99.9% of the time or whatever it is.)

Tasers are only about 50% effective. In a standoff situation, fine, but there was no time for such things in this case.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I don't think we are being told what the arguments are on both sides. What are they? I don't know. Did she call? Did someone else call with intent to get her shot? Was the girl under the impression she was defending herself and her comrades? To her knowledge, it was her residence. Did the crowd aggravate her into violence? Why were other fights going on? If she really was going to stab someone, why was no one stabbed for 8 minutes before police arrived? Instead we see a portion of an incident. What happened beforehand, what is the complaint from both sides?

Those caveats aside, tentatively, based only on the video, which is a bad idea to do, it appears that
1. Police could have acted more optimally by screaming, "Get down or I'll shoot!" Or "put the knife down or I'll shoot!" instead of "Get down!" as the girl didn't know a cop behind her had a gun and was saying get down so he could shoot.
2. Even if he made sub-optimal decisions beforehand under pressure, at the decision point of shooting, it seems to have been the correct thing to save the life of the girl in pink.
3. An investigation into the details, including context beforehand, is appropriate mostly to examine how police acted collectively.

 

[Metaphor]

The ACLU cements its total capitulation to Woke:

https://twitter.com/ACLU/status/1384898730848137219

 

[Swammerdami]

It's hard for me to make sense of these videos; and I don't need to pass judgement on every single police encounter anyway. But something struck me about this incident.

There might have been a delay before calling 911, and the cops took several minutes to arrive. With all those minutes of fighting, why did Bryant choose the precise moment the cop arrived to almost maim her foe? Was this just a chance coincidence?

This presumes the knife attack is going to happen and couldn't have been prevented. If someone is lunging with the knife, regrettable action must be taken. But the question is, could this have been prevented. I haven't the faintest clue.

The Police in some situations seem incapable of deescalating, though often these are the cases we usually hear about. "Cop gets suspect to drop knife" doesn't make the news.

Jimmy: it's my understanding that the cop got to the scene just as Bryant was lunging with the knife. This cop probably saved the other person's life.

I'm leaning towards this ^.

... Or had the knife-lunging been going on for a while, with the foe outrunning Bryant? Or perhaps Bryant had enough "sense" to frighten without maiming?

Were there other injuries? Or, after all those minutes of fighting, was cop the only maimer and Bryant the only victim?

 

[ZiprHead]

I wish the cop could have shot her once in the leg to incapacitate instead of four to the torso to kill.

 

[LoAmmo]

I wish the cop could have shot her once in the leg to incapacitate instead of four to the torso to kill.

Ideally, that'd have obviously been a better outcome, but it's a combination of Hollywood bullshit and "not how they train." Cops, like military, train to hit "center mass." For well-established reasons. COULD he have intentionally made it a point, especially at that close range, to hit her in the leg? Probably--but it IS a much smaller target, and one that was moving around at the time. And with her welding a knife close at hand against a victim hemmed in by a car, it wasn't time to try and get cute with a trick shooting display. He hit center mass, per his training.

Not to mention, a hit in the leg is far from harmless; nick a femoral artery, which is common in leg shots, and she dies just about as fast anyway.

But, yeah. I wish a LOT of things had been different about this entire event.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I wish the cop could have shot her once in the leg to incapacitate instead of four to the torso to kill.

I wish people would quit suggesting this sort of thing.

In almost all situations if you aim to shoot someone in the leg you either don't know enough to be using a gun or you're guilty of attempted murder. (Note that I'm not talking about a shot that doesn't go exactly where you intended, but aiming for an arm or leg.)

 

[Jayjay]

I wish the cop could have shot her once in the leg to incapacitate instead of four to the torso to kill.

I wish people would quit suggesting this sort of thing.

In almost all situations if you aim to shoot someone in the leg you either don't know enough to be using a gun or you're guilty of attempted murder. (Note that I'm not talking about a shot that doesn't go exactly where you intended, but aiming for an arm or leg.)

And aiming for center of mass is not an attempted murder?

Over here the police seem to be trained to aim for legs. I can think of two incidents where a guy with a knife was incapacitated with a leg shot. Not accidentally, but deliberately aiming for the leg. In both cases the perpetrator survived. I don't think that police procedures from different countries and situations are entirely transferable to America because the circumstances and criminals are different, but ultimately that's a matter of procedures and training. A policeman who fires into someone's leg against his training would be committing gross negligence or incompetence.

 

[TomC]

I wish the cop could have shot her once in the leg to incapacitate instead of four to the torso to kill.

I wish people would quit suggesting this sort of thing.

In almost all situations if you aim to shoot someone in the leg you either don't know enough to be using a gun or you're guilty of attempted murder. (Note that I'm not talking about a shot that doesn't go exactly where you intended, but aiming for an arm or leg.)

I'm no expert, but this does look like a situation where a taser would be ideal.
Stop the lethal threat in a nonlethal way.
Tom