Moved The legal plunder now taking place with Congress new Omnibus spending bill.

[RVonse]

Rand Paul makes very hard to argue points about the $ 1.7trillion spending bill now before Congress. A huge amount of spending in a bill that no one has the time assuming they even want to read any of it. Half the spending going to the defense industry which Donald Rumsfeld among others has stated the pentagon has no accountability for $trillions already lost. Note also that $1 trillion dollars is still a HUGE amount of money and not just some kind of rounding error. Some of the spending we do know about in this bill is covered in the aforementioned video and simply rediculous. Yet Democrats also bought us all these new IRS agents since they probably believe the government must be going broke. Why can't they just give us a break with all the spending AND the taxes?

One does have to wonder how all this unrestricted spending will end. At some point the US will not be able to cover interest without more borrowing. There are many who say all the worlds debts will have to be cancelled by using the excuse in order to bring in a digital currency. It will be their excuse to completely do away with cash while taking away economic freedoms along the way.

For the people who think this bill is so great, please tell me why you think it is so great, because right now Im pretty depressed about what they are doing.

 

[bilby]

There are many who say all the worlds debts will have to be cancelled by using this excuse to bring in a digital currency and do away with cash while taking away economic freedoms we now enjoy.

Those "many" are batshit crazy loons, and have long since parted company from reality.

Literally none of that is going to occur, nor does anyone want it to.

There are many who say that the world is run by a secret cabal of alien lizards disguised as humans. This belief should not inspire us to be fearful of lizard people, nor should it inspire us to take any actions, other than to treat with maximum suspicion anything else that these people say, and to call for better funding of mental health services.

The rest of your post might, possibly, have been worth responding to; But the inclusion of the snippet I quoted above flags the entire thing as paranoid nonsense, and frankly, life's too short.

Wherever you heard these "many" saying that nonsense, I can only recommend that you stop visiting that place, or paying attention to those "many" conspiracist idiots.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I don't care what Rand Paul says. How about something resembling the truth?

 

[RVonse]

Most people did not want it but they unfortuantely passed it anyway. But that would be expected since Congress could give a shit about what the people want and care only about their sponsors. They most certaintly did not have time to actually read it, that much is certain.:



And all anyone has said so far on this thread is to dismiss the people who are telling the truth about it. No discussion about the merits of the bill itself!

 

[RVonse]

As an aside to the moderators, this thread should have been posted in general political discussion since it really does not relate to US presidential politics. But I do not have the edit power to move it there.

 

[Patooka]

Oh goody, a chew toy for Christmas.

Rand Paul makes very hard to argue points about the $ 1.7trillion spending bill now before Congress.

Rand Paul is a lying hypocritical cunt. There hasn't been a spending package he is openly against that he won't then take credit for come election day.

A huge amount of spending in a bill that no one has the time assuming they even want to read any of it.

I could point out the obvious, "if you haven't read then you shouldn't criticise it", or point out perfection is subjective so there is no such thing as a perfect spending bill, or that your Republican heroes perfected (intended) the art of special interest graft - but then I realise who I'm talking to. Double standards and all that.

Half the spending going to the defense industry which Donald Rumsfeld among others has stated the pentagon has no accountability for $trillions already lost.

Donald Rumsfeld has a hard time saying anything at the moment. Also, guess which states love that federal welfare in the form of defense spending. I'll give you a hint - it's not the blue ones.

Note also that $1 trillion dollars is still a HUGE amount of money and not just some kind of rounding error. Some of the spending we do know about in this bill is covered in the aforementioned video and simply rediculous.

How do you know that if no one had read it, as you allege?

Yet Democrats also bought us all these new IRS agents since they probably believe the government must be going broke.

Well this is moronic conspiracy bullshit. Luckily Beau has explained this to morons who believe this crap so I don't have to, thank god.

Why can't they just give us a break with all the spending AND the taxes?

That is quite literall the prime function of government. Jesus fucking christ.

One does have to wonder how all this unrestricted spending will end. At some point the US will not be able to cover interest without more borrowing. There are many who say all the worlds debts will have to be cancelled by using the excuse in order to bring in a digital currency. It will be their excuse to completely do away with cash while taking away economic freedoms along the way.

Hate to break it to you, watching Fight Club isn't smart economic theory. I'd love to know who these "many" you think exist are.

For the people who think this bill is so great, please tell me why you think it is so great, because right now Im pretty depressed about what they are doing.

No. I will point out though that when you feel depressed about what government is doing, meaningful shit tends to get accomplished and when you are happy with what government is doing (see all the threads you started about how great Trump was), this just got shittier. That is not causation by any measure, but the correlation is most certainly there.

Thank you for that Christmas present. Shredding those bullshit arguments was a good 5 minutes of fun whilst I was waiting for the oven to heat up.

 

[scombrid]

many who say all the worlds debts will have to be cancelled by using the excuse in order to bring in a digital currency. It will be their excuse to completely do away with cash while taking away economic freedoms along the way.

Many say huh? Guess they should all go buy gold then. It is an interesting theory you have that "they" are deliberately trying to bread the dollar so they can enslave people with digital currency. Interesting.

 

[RVonse]

many who say all the worlds debts will have to be cancelled by using the excuse in order to bring in a digital currency. It will be their excuse to completely do away with cash while taking away economic freedoms along the way.

Many say huh? Guess they should all go buy gold then. It is an interesting theory you have that "they" are deliberately trying to bread the dollar so they can enslave people with digital currency. Interesting.

Ive been reading many articles since the pandemic, here is one 2 years old for example:

Will Covid make countries drop cash and adopt digital currencies? | Kenneth Rogoff

Coronavirus has accelerated the shift away from banknotes – central banks must act fast to catch up

www.theguardian.com

In the final analysis the main point that no one addresses though is US debt to GDP. How does that continue to accelerate without some kind of consequence to the dollar itself? There is simply too much debt in the system already to sustain much longer. If this 1.7 trillion package is so great why do they release it during the night and not give anyone time to actually review it before a vote?

 

[RVonse]

Well this is moronic conspiracy bullshit. Luckily Beau has explained this to morons who believe this crap so I don't have to, thank god.

Thank you for providing another viewpoint. It actually sounds pretty reasonable, but regardless at least provides another slant on the subject.

 

[Swammerdami]

Rand Paul makes very hard to argue points about the $ 1.7trillion spending bill now before Congress.

I'm guessing you mean "hard to argue with," which has the opposite meaning. I on the other hand, find it hard to argue for OR against the Ayn Rand fan-boi. He's just too insipid a dentist — or whatever he is — to heed one way or the other.

In 1999, Paul set up and was "certified" by the National Board of Ophthalmologists (NBO), his own certification organization, to protest a change in the American Board of Ophthalmologists' (ABO) rules. Paul, his wife, and his father-in-law were listed as being in charge of this board.

A huge amount of spending in a bill that no one has the time assuming they even want to read any of it.

Sure; documents should fit onto a single page, double spaced. If the budget were TWO trillion-plus THEN it would be acceptable for the spending bill to spill over to a second page.

Half the spending going to the defense industry which Donald Rumsfeld among others has stated the pentagon has no accountability for $trillions already lost. Note also that $1 trillion dollars is still a HUGE amount of money and not just some kind of rounding error. Some of the spending we do know about in this bill is covered in the aforementioned video and simply rediculous.

Defense got FAR more than Biden asked for. Was this payola to get enough QOP Senators to block a filibuster? I'm curious enough to watch a video explaining the spending. Just not a video by Rand Paul linked by RVonse.

Yet Democrats also bought us all these new IRS agents since they probably believe the government must be going broke. Why can't they just give us a break with all the spending AND the taxes?

IRS is one agency that pays for itself "in spades." An extra million in auditor salaries nets many scores of millions to the Treasury. OP, along with much of the QOP, seem to assume that tax evasion is good and should be encouraged.

One does have to wonder how all this unrestricted spending will end. At some point the US will not be able to cover interest without more borrowing. There are many who say all the worlds debts will have to be cancelled by using the excuse in order to bring in a digital currency.

Currency already is digital; the question is When will it be devalued? Sooner rather than later perhaps, but only a very bitter man would blame it on a little help for schoolchildren in the 2022 Omnibus Spending bill.

It will be their excuse to completely do away with cash while taking away economic freedoms along the way.

Cash? What are you on about? My daughter carries no cash: Even the smallest purchases are "Scan Jai" pointing with her iPhone. I'm a Luddite too, but what does our nostalgia have to do with the Omnibus bill?

For the people who think this bill is so great, please tell me why you think it is so great, because right now Im pretty depressed about what they are doing.

Hunh? I'm glad they did something before the insurrectionists take control of the House next month. If you sincerely want help with your depression, post an INTELLIGENT opinion on the spending and point to where the Democrats hurt you.

 

[Oleg]

Is there a historical antecedent of country or empire that just keep digging itself into debt that ended well? Just seems highly immoral to obligate the next generation to pay for the profligate debt we're partying on today.

 

[Swammerdami]

Is there a historical antecedent of country or empire that just keep digging itself into debt that ended well? Just seems highly immoral to obligate the next generation to pay for the profligate debt we're partying on today.

By some measures U.S. debt in World War II was greater. Repaying that debt coincided with major prosperity. Clinton and the D's reduced Reagan's debt with prosperity. Civil War debt was paid off. Britain borrowed heavily to defeat Napoleon. Rome issued fiat money to win the Punic Wars. And so on.

But your point is not wholly wrong. Or rather, it wouldn't be wrong if your interpretation of "the profligate debt we're partying on today" were correct. Is it?

The lion's share of discretionary spending is on the military, which most of us do not regard as "partying." Start a new thread to discuss that part of the deficit.

Baby Boomers are now retiring and draining the SocSec surplus. The "fiscal conservative" crowd sure did NOT want to count SocSec surplus when they whined about the "deficit" a decade ago, but you can bet they've reversed their accounting view now. Many retirees depend on SocSec for food and shelter; "partying" doesn't seem like the right word for them.

And those enjoying Medicare or spending extra for medicine do not feel like that is "partying" money either.

In fact, those whingeing and whining — like an inane TikTok on Repeat — about "Spending spending spending" are awfully confused. The teeny-tiny discretionary spending OTHER than Military and VA Benefits is NOT out of line: It's barely enough to cover needs. The problem is TAX CUTS. Let me repeat that in a larger font: Huge tax cuts passed for millionaires and corporations under Bush-43 and Trump have "starved the beast" and forced deficits during this era of unprecedented corporate profit margins. (Do we need a cite that tax cuts increase deficits?)

So yes, there IS a lot of partying going on. Have you looked at the price-tags on Superyachts? How many Americans fly by private jet.? Have you read about multimillionaires feeding caviar to their house pets?

When I was young, billionaires were very rare. Howard Hughes was the iconic richest American but had only about two billion when he died in 1976. But it won't be long before the dictionary needs a new word: Trillionaire.

When you hear someone complain about government SPENDING, 99 times out of 100 they don't even know what the real reason for the big deficits is.

 

[Patooka]

I'm kinda curious where all these fiscal conservatives disappeared to from Jan 20, 2001 to Jan 20 2009. And then again from Jan 20 2017 to Jan 20 2021. Couldn't be seen anywhere for some reason. Weird.

 

[Derec]

In fact, those whingeing and whining — like an inane TikTok on Repeat — about "Spending spending spending" are awfully confused. The teeny-tiny discretionary spending OTHER than Military and VA Benefits is NOT out of line: It's barely enough to cover needs. The problem is TAX CUTS.

Why can't it be both? Whatever you say here, the point remains that Dems want to spend trillions on things like forgiving student loans (even though college graduates make substantially more than non-graduates on average) and people with a lot of children (most expensive part of B³). Even when it comes to tax cuts for the rich, GOP is not alone - the B³ plan included a major tax cut for blue state rich via the highly regressive SALT deduction.

So yes, there IS a lot of partying going on. Have you looked at the price-tags on Superyachts? How many Americans fly by private jet.? Have you read about multimillionaires feeding caviar to their house pets?

That's spending by private individuals, not government. This thread is about a spending bill, by the federal government. Do try to stay on topic.

When I was young, billionaires were very rare. Howard Hughes was the iconic richest American but had only about two billion when he died in 1976. But it won't be long before the dictionary needs a new word: Trillionaire.

A lot of it has to do with inflation. $2G in 1976 would be over $10G today. Not richest man in the World or even America type money, but enough for a top 60 spot on the Forbes 400.
As far as trillionaires, somebody having $200G today would become a trillionaire in 32 years time at a 5% inflation rate without increasing his real wealth by one cent. So yeah, eventually we will have to start talking about trillionaires just like we had to start talking about billionaires at some point. Them's the breaks of an exponential curve.

You might be happy to know that both Bezos and Musk are worth far less than $200G these days due to drops in their stock holdings - they were well over $200G last year (not adjusted for inflation).

Still more than enough to afford megayachts and private jets though. Note also that you do not need to be a filthy billionaire to fly on a private jet. Plenty of Hollywood hypocrites (like that Hulk guy, forgot his name) fly private jets while bitching about pipelines all the damn time.

 

[Derec]

He's just too insipid a dentist — or whatever he is — to heed one way or the other.

You are just an anti-dentite!

Sure; documents should fit onto a single page, double spaced. If the budget were TWO trillion-plus THEN it would be acceptable for the spending bill to spill over to a second page.

Documents should be able to be read and comprehended by those voting aye or nay. Otherwise, what are they voting for?

Defense got FAR more than Biden asked for. Was this payola to get enough QOP Senators to block a filibuster? I'm curious enough to watch a video explaining the spending. Just not a video by Rand Paul linked by RVonse.

Maybe AOC will post a video then. And lpetrich can link to it.
She is the only Dem who voted against the bill, mostly because of military and ICE funding (she is pro-illegal).
Ocasio-Cortez only Democrat to vote ‘no’ on spending package

Currency already is digital; the question is When will it be devalued? Sooner rather than later perhaps, but only a very bitter man would blame it on a little help for schoolchildren in the 2022 Omnibus Spending bill.

All the pieces matter. You may approve of that particular spending, but it is still part of spending more than the government is bringing in.

Cash? What are you on about? My daughter carries no cash: Even the smallest purchases are "Scan Jai" pointing with her iPhone. I'm a Luddite too, but what does our nostalgia have to do with the Omnibus bill?

It has nothing to do with being a Luddite. Sometimes it is nice to know that your purchases won't be tracked by either corporations or the government. Besides, how can you scan a tip for a stripper? Much easier to put a dollar bill in her g-string or garter.

Hunh? I'm glad they did something before the insurrectionists take control of the House next month. If you sincerely want help with your depression, post an INTELLIGENT opinion on the spending and point to where the Democrats hurt you.

Uh-huh. And are those insurrectionists who are taking control of the House next month in the room with you right now?

 

[Swammerdami]

In fact, those whingeing and whining — like an inane TikTok on Repeat — about "Spending spending spending" are awfully confused. The teeny-tiny discretionary spending OTHER than Military and VA Benefits is NOT out of line: It's barely enough to cover needs. The problem is TAX CUTS.

Why can't it be both?

Oh! Mr. Derec is so open-minded. He realizes that things can have multiple causes (while constantly assuming others do NOT know this) and trots out that wisdom at every opportunity.

Whatever you say here, the point remains that Dems want to spend trillions on things like forgiving student loans

How much student debt forgivenemss was in the $1.7T bill? Zero? Do try to stay on topic.

That's spending by private individuals, not government. This thread is about a spending bill, by the federal government. Do try to stay on topic.

Wrong again. Money awarded by the QOPAnon Party to billionaires and corporations is, in effect "spending by the federal government" when that money came from stupid corrupt tax cuts. Not part of the spending bill so "off topic"? If you say so, but see above.

Note also that you do not need to be a filthy billionaire to fly on a private jet. Plenty of Hollywood hypocrites (like that Hulk guy, forgot his name) fly private jets while bitching about pipelines all the damn time.

You tell us over and over that YOU do not vote for Trump, that YOU are not like the QAnon Hollywood haters. Courtesy requires that I take you at your word. But let me ask you a question:

You seem relatively charismatic as a political debater; perhaps you influence relatives or friends. If your political discussions with others are anything like your discussions here, do you think you encourage others to vote for Trump or for Biden? IOW, I suspect you pump up the QOPAnon vote totals even if it is really true that you voted for Biden.

 

[jonatha]

In the final analysis the main point that no one addresses though is US debt to GDP.

The one that's about half of Japan's?

 

[scombrid]

bill is covered in the aforementioned video and simply rediculous. [/q]

REdiculous eh? Yeah, it is a ridiculous video.

Yet Democrats also bought us all these new IRS agents since they probably believe the government must be going broke. [/q]

Doesn't matter how many times disinformation is exposed and debunked the agents and dupes will just keep repeating it.

Why can't they just give us a break with all the spending AND the taxes?[/q]

Well Trump, McConnell, Ryan, and the rest of the GOP gave the multinational corporations a huge tax give away in 2017 while continuing to spend a shitload of money on the military that they use to protect their international supply lines and to secure raw materials, compliant labor, etc... So Bush the 2nd and Trump slashed revenue while making sure there isn't adequate spending on things we need here but while spending insane amounts of money in resource conflicts and such.

 

[steve_bank]

Nobody likes government spending unless it is on them.

Get rid of business tax breaks and incentives. All govt business stimulus. Govt backed loans.

I;d have to look up what percntge of the economy govt spending is. Without it the economy would be in trouble. Militray spending.

The modern economy and country ca not move forward without infrastructure spending.

 

[laughing dog]

In FY 2022, Federal spending was a little over $6 trillion. This bill of $ 1.7 trillion spending authorization lasts until September. In that context, this bill is neither outrageously large or surprising in size. In a bill that size there is always something to quibble about. The alternative was a very possible shutdown in January of the Federal gov’t. While that prospect might give some people comfort or an orgasm, it would mean a certain disaster for the brave Ukrainian people along with real hardship for many people in the US and in our military.

If that upsets you, you can thank the hard MAGA
GOP in the House of Representatives who threaten to stop reasonable compromises on the budget.

An OP based on quotes from Rand Paul ( a demagogic jackass) and Donald Rumsfeld (a thankfully dead liar) would be amusing if it was not so depressing to be reminded that too many people fall for that kind of nonsense.