The long term effect of the failed Trump presidency?

[Horatio Parker]

Trumps budget is DOA. I see more calls for single payer than ever before. It's not going to go away. It won't happen with this pres or this Congress, but I think the odds of it eventually happening are improving.

I hate to be blunt, but the left isn't getting shit unless they can help deliver an election. The republicans have total control of the government. Complete control. Even moderate dems and reps are dog food today.....

For now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ZiprHead]

Actually, support for uhc is growing even among republican voters.

And according to some on Morning Joe this morning, many republicans, including congress people, are also against this budget.

 

[Elixir]

Actually, support for uhc is growing even among republican voters.

And according to some on Morning Joe this morning, many republicans, including congress people, are also against this budget.

The Trump budget (the "Trudget") looks like a typical lowball offer, made in the hope that if they make a few concessions they can advance their war on the poor. Instead, I think it will die a mercifully quick death.

 

[Terrell]

Trumps budget is DOA. I see more calls for single payer than ever before. It's not going to go away. It won't happen with this pres or this Congress, but I think the odds of it eventually happening are improving.

I hate to be blunt, but the left isn't getting shit unless they can help deliver an election. The republicans have total control of the government. Complete control. Even moderate dems and reps are dog food today.....

I agree. If Anthony Kennedy or any of the Dem appointed justices retires or dies, kiss abortion rights, and possibly gay rights goodbye. Had the Bernie or Bust and the Stein people voted for HRC, Neil Gorsuch wouldn't be on the Supreme Court for the next 30+ years. Even if UHC was passed it still needs to survive a challenge in the Supreme Court. These are some of the consequences of "Bust". More may be seen in the future.

 

[funinspace]

Trumps budget is DOA. I see more calls for single payer than ever before. It's not going to go away. It won't happen with this pres or this Congress, but I think the odds of it eventually happening are improving.

I hate to be blunt, but the left isn't getting shit unless they can help deliver an election. The republicans have total control of the government. Complete control. Even moderate dems and reps are dog food today.....

And yet with the Repugs complete control, it took the House 2 tries to pass a bill partially dismantling the ACA, even though the Repugs have had 6 years to work out a 'conservative' solution. And that bill is pretty much DOA in the Repug controlled Senate. The Don the Con just released FY2018 proposal is pretty much DOA with Repugs in Congress. So far the Repugs are operating more like a divided Congress than having complete control. I think a large part of the problem is that the alt-right world has conjoined with so many House Repugs for the last decades selling some stiff Koolaid to the masses. Now that they have to actually govern, and "NO" not actually being a method, they have a real problem.

To put it simply:
Big military + protect SS + protect Medicair + tax cuts != balancing budget
You could literally take a wrecking ball to the rest of the budget and still not make headway in changing the direction of of deficits. And in taking a wrecking ball to the rest of the budget, the Repugs are quite aware of just how much that would endanger them in the 2018 elections. Their only viable path is bigger smoke and mirror machines along with tinkering and pretending they are doing more.

Sure they will be able to get court nominees thru. They will be able to tinker with environmental standards, but there is no road back to the 1960's or 1970's. They will be able to tinker with other regulations, but again it will be tinkering not wholesale destruction. Wall Street might get the best bang for the buck, but even there not too much was restricted under Obama. It's not like Citi Group was un-merged...

 

[funinspace]

I hate to be blunt, but the left isn't getting shit unless they can help deliver an election. The republicans have total control of the government. Complete control. Even moderate dems and reps are dog food today.....

I agree. If Anthony Kennedy or any of the Dem appointed justices retires or dies, kiss abortion rights, and possibly gay rights goodbye.

I'll agree that it is possible that the abortion issue could fall back to the states with another conservative justice, but it is still not guaranteed. There are probably over half a million legally married gay couples. The SC is very unlikely to try to unwind that, especially as support for gay marriage has broken into the mid 60% range; never mind how to untangle SS rights once established and what not.

 

[Opoponax]

Trumps budget is DOA. I see more calls for single payer than ever before. It's not going to go away. It won't happen with this pres or this Congress, but I think the odds of it eventually happening are improving.

I hate to be blunt, but the left isn't getting shit unless they can help deliver an election. The republicans have total control of the government. Complete control. Even moderate dems and reps are dog food today.....

Today. But today isn't permanent.

At some point, Republicans are either going to have to give in to universal health care, or they're going to be crushed by it. Trump promised better healthcare for "a fraction of what you're paying now." Do you think that didn't resonate with the people who voted for him?

Privatized healthcare is hitting people both in their wallets and in their family's lives. The fact that other nations have been doing it for so long now has fucking finally been realized by enough Americans to give it life. The idea isn't going away.

Here in California, we vote on a proposition in November that would provide universal care for everyone in the state. If that happens, other states are going to want the same thing. Hopefully it'll be like dominoes. And what will the GOP do then? Try to crush it in the courts? Probably. They're vile enough to give it a shot. But once California has it, the rest of the nation is going to want it too.

 

[Horatio Parker]

I hate to be blunt, but the left isn't getting shit unless they can help deliver an election. The republicans have total control of the government. Complete control. Even moderate dems and reps are dog food today.....

Today. But today isn't permanent.

At some point, Republicans are either going to have to give in to universal health care, or they're going to be crushed by it. Trump promised better healthcare for "a fraction of what you're paying now." Do you think that didn't resonate with the people who voted for him?

Privatized healthcare is hitting people both in their wallets and in their family's lives. The fact that other nations have been doing it for so long now has fucking finally been realized by enough Americans to give it life. The idea isn't going away.

Here in California, we vote on a proposition in November that would provide universal care for everyone in the state. If that happens, other states are going to want the same thing. Hopefully it'll be like dominoes. And what will the GOP do then? Try to crush it in the courts? Probably. They're vile enough to give it a shot. But once California has it, the rest of the nation is going to want it too.

The rest of the nation wants it now.

The Repubs have the difficult task of cutting health care by $80B/yr or so and convincing people they're making it better. They may succeed, but once the effects are felt, it will be a Pyrrhic victory.

 

[Elixir]

The Repubs have the difficult task of cutting health care by $80B/yr or so and convincing people they're making it better. They may succeed, but once the effects are felt, it will be a Pyrrhic victory.

If they succeed, they won't give one flying fuck about the people who get hurt. That $80b will be split up among the American Oligarchs and they'll laugh all the way to the bank.

 

[Horatio Parker]

The Repubs have the difficult task of cutting health care by $80B/yr or so and convincing people they're making it better. They may succeed, but once the effects are felt, it will be a Pyrrhic victory.

If they succeed, they won't give one flying fuck about the people who get hurt. That $80b will be split up among the American Oligarchs and they'll laugh all the way to the bank.

Yes. But the voters will take it out on them.

I bet in '18 we see candidates running on promises of uhc.

 

[Elixir]

If they succeed, they won't give one flying fuck about the people who get hurt. That $80b will be split up among the American Oligarchs and they'll laugh all the way to the bank.

Yes. But the voters will take it out on them.

Sure. But political popularity is fleeting. 9-digit bank accounts? Not so much.

I bet in '18 we see candidates running on promises of uhc.

The interesting thing will be how many of the GOP will follow Cheato's example, and promise uhc while plotting to throw people out of the system.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If they succeed, they won't give one flying fuck about the people who get hurt. That $80b will be split up among the American Oligarchs and they'll laugh all the way to the bank.

Yes. But the voters will take it out on them.

I bet in '18 we see candidates running on promises of uhc.

:laughing-smiley-014:laughing-smiley-014:laughing-smiley-014:laughing-smiley-014

Sorry... it's just...



... I want UHC too! But many politicians running in reddish districts trying to win Democrats seats trying to sell UHC?!

 

[Elixir]

Yes. But the voters will take it out on them.

I bet in '18 we see candidates running on promises of uhc.

:laughing-smiley-014:laughing-smiley-014:laughing-smiley-014:laughing-smiley-014

Sorry... it's just...



... I want UHC too! But many politicians running in reddish districts trying to win Democrats seats trying to sell UHC?!

... Trump did that ...
Remember when Russians were referred to as "reds"?

 

[Horatio Parker]

Yes. But the voters will take it out on them.

I bet in '18 we see candidates running on promises of uhc.

:laughing-smiley-014:laughing-smiley-014:laughing-smiley-014:laughing-smiley-014

Sorry... it's just...



... I want UHC too! But many politicians running in reddish districts trying to win Democrats seats trying to sell UHC?!

Reddish districts is your addition. But you don't have to be a blue dog Dem to oppose uhc. Look at Hillary.

 

[Harry Bosch]

:laughing-smiley-014:laughing-smiley-014:laughing-smiley-014:laughing-smiley-014

Sorry... it's just...



... I want UHC too! But many politicians running in reddish districts trying to win Democrats seats trying to sell UHC?!

Reddish districts is your addition. But you don't have to be a blue dog Dem to oppose uhc. Look at Hillary.

??? HRC was the founder of US UHC movement! She busted her butt fighting for it and was roundly attacked for it. Her approval went to near zero. Where were all the UHC voters then? They were hiding. Of course she was more careful when running for president 20 years later. She had learned her lesson. I do think that UHC was trending in the right direction and would have become policy down the road until the Bernie or Bust and republicans banded together and gave up Trump. UHC has been set back 30 years in the US....

 

[Opoponax]

Reddish districts is your addition. But you don't have to be a blue dog Dem to oppose uhc. Look at Hillary.

??? HRC was the founder of US UHC movement! She busted her butt fighting for it and was roundly attacked for it. Her approval went to near zero. Where were all the UHC voters then? They were hiding. Of course she was more careful when running for president 20 years later. She had learned her lesson. I do think that UHC was trending in the right direction and would have become policy down the road until the Bernie or Bust and republicans banded together and gave up Trump. UHC has been set back 30 years in the US....

True. On all counts. However, the nation seems ready for it now. And I don't think it's going to take 30 years to get it done. The ACA, at least for the U.S., was an enormous step toward acknowledging that the system as it existed was unsustainable. The next step is either to make things worse than they've ever been, or go to UHC. Because enough Americans are stupid enough to be willing to let their kids die or lose everything they have, we may have to experience the worst option first. How long will that last? One might say until The Stupid are finally willing to cry uncle. So maybe it will be a long time. Fuck.

 

[Harry Bosch]

??? HRC was the founder of US UHC movement! She busted her butt fighting for it and was roundly attacked for it. Her approval went to near zero. Where were all the UHC voters then? They were hiding. Of course she was more careful when running for president 20 years later. She had learned her lesson. I do think that UHC was trending in the right direction and would have become policy down the road until the Bernie or Bust and republicans banded together and gave up Trump. UHC has been set back 30 years in the US....

True. On all counts. However, the nation seems ready for it now. And I don't think it's going to take 30 years to get it done. The ACA, at least for the U.S., was an enormous step toward acknowledging that the system as it existed was unsustainable. The next step is either to make things worse than they've ever been, or go to UHC. Because enough Americans are stupid enough to be willing to let their kids die or lose everything they have, we may have to experience the worst option first. How long will that last? One might say until The Stupid are finally willing to cry uncle. So maybe it will be a long time. Fuck.

But we're going the wrong direction. The CBO just came out with the finding that new Trumpcare will take health care away from 23 million people.

 

[Horatio Parker]

Reddish districts is your addition. But you don't have to be a blue dog Dem to oppose uhc. Look at Hillary.

??? HRC was the founder of US UHC movement! She busted her butt fighting for it and was roundly attacked for it. Her approval went to near zero. Where were all the UHC voters then? They were hiding. Of course she was more careful when running for president 20 years later. She had learned her lesson. I do think that UHC was trending in the right direction and would have become policy down the road until the Bernie or Bust and republicans banded together and gave up Trump. UHC has been set back 30 years in the US....

Where were they then? Still buying into neoliberal bullshit about "socialism".

HRC shouldn't have learned that particular lesson.

Surely one reason Sanders resonated so well with voters was uhc.

But it's a long way from over. The Senate repugs have some very fine needle threading to do.

 

[Harry Bosch]

??? HRC was the founder of US UHC movement! She busted her butt fighting for it and was roundly attacked for it. Her approval went to near zero. Where were all the UHC voters then? They were hiding. Of course she was more careful when running for president 20 years later. She had learned her lesson. I do think that UHC was trending in the right direction and would have become policy down the road until the Bernie or Bust and republicans banded together and gave up Trump. UHC has been set back 30 years in the US....

Where were they then? Still buying into neoliberal bullshit about "socialism".

HRC shouldn't have learned that particular lesson.

Surely one reason Sanders resonated so well with voters was uhc.

But it's a long way from over. The Senate repugs have some very fine needle threading to do.

I'd be the first to admit that HRC was not inspiring as a candidate. I'd have preferred others. But to claim that Sanders knocked everyone's socks off is false. HRC got 55% of the democratic vote. Sanders got 43%. Putin and Trump would have smoked him in the general election....

 

[Horatio Parker]

Where were they then? Still buying into neoliberal bullshit about "socialism".

HRC shouldn't have learned that particular lesson.

Surely one reason Sanders resonated so well with voters was uhc.

But it's a long way from over. The Senate repugs have some very fine needle threading to do.

I'd be the first to admit that HRC was not inspiring as a candidate. I'd have preferred others. But to claim that Sanders knocked everyone's socks off is FALSE. HRC got 55% of the democratic vote. Sanders got 43%. Putin and Trump would have smoked him in the general election....

I'm not arguing that Sanders outperformed HRC. The point is that the response to him was far stronger than anyone imagined. And a large part of that was uhc. So it seems to me, after passing the House abortion, I forget the name, the Cook political report said control of the House was in play. Add to that all the town halls and more favorable coverage, I predict in 2018 Congressional candidates will run on it.

When will it happen? I dunno, you could be right about 30 years…but the Dems, particularly the mainstream Dems like Pelosi are almost as obstructionist as the Repugs.