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The meaning of infinity

You're just pretending you have a final product when performing an infinite operation, when performing an operation to an infinite entity.

You can only rationally perform an operation to something that is defined.

To perform an operation to something that has no final value will also yield no final value.

And I assure you I did not say that 0.999... means a zero followed by 9's that never end.

That is what (...) means.
 
You're just pretending you have a final product when performing an infinite operation, when performing an operation to an infinite entity.

I'm not performing an operation to the string, I'm performing an operation to the number.

You can only rationally perform an operation to something that is defined.

Which the number is.

To perform an operation to something that has no final value will also yield no final value.

And I assure you I did not say that 0.999... means a zero followed by 9's that never end.

That is what (...) means.

And that refers to the string, not the number. Treating this as a property of the number makes the exact same sense as calling the number "yellow" or "thoughtful". It's a category error.
 
You're pretending the string points to some number to pretend it is a number.

It is a string.

Nothing else.

All it's features cannot be captured in any other representation of it.
 
You're pretending the string points to some number to pretend it is a number.

It is a string.

Nothing else.

All it's features cannot be captured in any other representation of it.

I got news for you: Your string doesn’t exist either. No more than the number it refers to, and arguably less.

For all your realist grandstanding, by treating the string as a thing, an entity, you’re using a couple dozen symbolic equivalence relations.

“The string” was born as a pattern of electric and chemical signals (1) in your frontal cortex, and probably other areas of the brain like the motor cortex (when we silently vocalise words, our motor cortex is constantly preparing mock instructions to the speech organs).

When you decided to type it, you transformed (2) it into a series of funny shapes according to a man-made mapping you had memorised in primary school, and identified the keys on your keyboard where someone had marked those shapes.

Your keyboard then sent a pattern of electric pulses (3) to your CPU, according to a set of man-made rules someone had programmed it with. The CPU transformed that series into a different series of electric pulses (4) according to yet another lookup table, to save it as a spatial pattern of 0s and 1s (5) in memory. Your graphics driver transformed that into yet another series of electric pulses (6), which caused a spatial pattern of dark and light pixels (7) on your screen. This pattern caused a sequence of electric signals in your visual nerve (8), which you translated back to some mental representation of the digits (9).

When you decided that you had indeed typed what you wanted to type and pressed the send button, your computer compiled the representation in (5) into yet another sequence of 0s and 1s or electric pulses (10) to send to the server. The server transcoded it back into something it could store on disk, possibly in the same format your computer used internally, but just as likely in yet another (11). And when I requested the page, it was transformed back into (10), and with my different graphics driver, different screen, different brain and different native language, we’re up to at least 15-16 different physical manifestations of “the string” before either of us has read it out loud, which would add yet another series of manifestations (movement patterns of the tongue and jaws, air pressure modulations, auditory nerve excitement patterns…).

You accept all of these equivalencies as valid – some of them arbitrarily defined by a human, some the accidental product of evolutionary history – and even accept that the string 0.999… is “defined to mean” another string, equally a collection of two dozen physically unrelated things only held together by the symbolic relations humans defined to hold between them.

But when I want to talk about the number it refers to you cry foul. You pretend you only want to talk about real things.

That’s just inconsistent cherry-picking. The string is no more real, no less a figment of human imagination, than the number, and arguably less of the former and more of the latter.
 
I never said the string exists.

It cannot exist.

I said it is specifically defined.

The understanding of the definition takes place in the mind. The visual experience of it takes place in the mind.

It is a mental construct. It is something constructed by a mind and something a mind can understand.

It is defined as a 0 a decimal point then an endless string of 9's.

It is not representing something else.

It is just something a mind constructed.

And it has no final value if you take the word "endless" seriously.
 
I never said the string exists.

It cannot exist.

I said it is specifically defined.

The understanding of the definition takes place in the mind. The visual experience of it takes place in the mind.

It is a mental construct. It is something constructed by a mind and something a mind can understand.

It is defined as a 0 a decimal point then an endless string of 9's.

It is not representing something else.

It is just something a mind constructed.

And it has no final value if you take the word "endless" seriously.

The string"0.999..." is very much finite. Encoded in ASCII, it takes up exactly 8 bytes = 64 bits of computer memory, no more than the string "fuck you". Displayed as a pattern of dark and white pixels, it takes up less than a quarter of a square centimetre on my screen, again just like "fuck you". Read out aloud, it will take less than 1.5 seconds to pronounce, about as much as "seriously, fuck you, you misfit."

Only by letting it refer to something entirely different can you possibly claim it's infinite.

Your refusal to let it refer to a number is thus nothing but cherry-picking.
 
That is Untermensch, not untermensche.

Gosh, really? No relationship whatsoever, oh, no, no, no, no........

coincidence

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I never said the string exists.

It cannot exist.

I said it is specifically defined.

The understanding of the definition takes place in the mind. The visual experience of it takes place in the mind.

It is a mental construct. It is something constructed by a mind and something a mind can understand.

It is defined as a 0 a decimal point then an endless string of 9's.

It is not representing something else.

It is just something a mind constructed.

And it has no final value if you take the word "endless" seriously.

The string"0.999..." is very much finite. Encoded in ASCII, it takes up exactly 8 bytes = 64 bits of computer memory, no more than the string "fuck you". Displayed as a pattern of dark and white pixels, it takes up less than a quarter of a square centimetre on my screen, again just like "fuck you". Read out aloud, it will take less than 1.5 seconds to pronounce, about as much as "seriously, fuck you, you misfit."

Only by letting it refer to something entirely different can you possibly claim it's infinite.

Your refusal to let it refer to a number is thus nothing but cherry-picking.

When a thing is too small to meaningfully take up space in the real world you conclude it is gone.

All you deluded math guys start saying fuck you very quickly.

You are selling nonsense, religion.

It is an infinite string by definition (...).

It is nothing else.

That which is lost in translation is ignored by you. You think you can get a final product when performing an operation to something that has no final value.
 
coincidence

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I never said the string exists.

It cannot exist.

I said it is specifically defined.

The understanding of the definition takes place in the mind. The visual experience of it takes place in the mind.

It is a mental construct. It is something constructed by a mind and something a mind can understand.

It is defined as a 0 a decimal point then an endless string of 9's.

It is not representing something else.

It is just something a mind constructed.

And it has no final value if you take the word "endless" seriously.

The string"0.999..." is very much finite. Encoded in ASCII, it takes up exactly 8 bytes = 64 bits of computer memory, no more than the string "fuck you". Displayed as a pattern of dark and white pixels, it takes up less than a quarter of a square centimetre on my screen, again just like "fuck you". Read out aloud, it will take less than 1.5 seconds to pronounce, about as much as "seriously, fuck you, you misfit."

Only by letting it refer to something entirely different can you possibly claim it's infinite.

Your refusal to let it refer to a number is thus nothing but cherry-picking.

When a thing is too small to meaningfully take up space in the real world you conclude it is gone.

All you deluded math guys start saying fuck you very quickly.

You are selling nonsense, religion.

I'm not saying "fuck you" to you. I'm using it as an example for another string of length 8. Could have equally said "love you".

You, on the other hand, go around calling people "deluded", accusing them of "selling nonsense" and making "no rational sense" (all the while claiming that 1/9 has a different result depending on which language you write it down...)
 
coincidence

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When a thing is too small to meaningfully take up space in the real world you conclude it is gone.

All you deluded math guys start saying fuck you very quickly.

You are selling nonsense, religion.

I'm not saying "fuck you" to you. I'm using it as an example for another string of length 8. Could have equally said "love you".

You, on the other hand, go around calling people "deluded", accusing them of "selling nonsense" and making "no rational sense" (all the while claiming that 1/9 has a different result depending on which language you write it down...)

1/9 is not a final product.

It is an operation.

You confuse operations for products because one yields the other.

It is a strange mentality. Maybe not full out delusion.
 
It is an infinite string by definition (...).

It is a string of length 8.

One that, within a certain language, is defined to be equivalent to another string, an infinite one.

In that same language, the pair is defined to refer to a number.

Both are man-defined semantic relations. There is no reason to accept one but not the other.
 
It means the 9's repeat without ending. It defines an infinite operation not an infinity.

No equivalences are needed.

Any talk of an equivalence is something added. It comes from left field.
 
It means the 9's repeat without ending. It defines an infinite operation not an infinity.

No equivalences are needed.

Any talk of an equivalence is something added. It comes from left field.

I bolded where you're relying on equivalencies and semantic relationships between different entities. Cherrypicking.
 
It means the 9's repeat without ending. It defines an infinite operation not an infinity.

No equivalences are needed.

Any talk of an equivalence is something added. It comes from left field.

I bolded where you're relying on equivalencies and semantic relationships between different entities. Cherrypicking.

To mean something is not to say it is equivalent to something.

4 apples in your hand MEANS you have four apples.

It does not mean apples are equivalent to something else.

And to define something as going on without ever ending is not to say it is equivalent to something else either.

You're grasping at straws.
 
Folks, this was all settled nearly 200 years ago with the  (ε, δ)-definition of limit that rigorously showed that
wikipedia said:
The need for reference to an infinitesimal \({\displaystyle E}\) was then removed
and the limit is exact, and holds under non-standard analysis ( Non-standard_calculus#Limit) as well. For whatever reason, some people cannot accept that any concept that seems to go against their initial intuition can be correct. Like arguing with any fundamentalist, at some point you just have to let it go.
 
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This is a discussion about an entity that is defined to never have a final value.

It has nothing to do with infinitesimals.

We are not dividing something into infinite pieces.

We are extending a defined entity "9" in a string without the possibility of that string ever ending. Never do we have an "infinitesimal".

It has no final value.
 
This is a discussion about an entity that is defined to never have a final value.

It has nothing to do with infinitesimals.

We are not dividing something into infinite pieces.

We are extending a defined entity "9" in a string without the possibility of that string ever ending. Never do we have an "infinitesimal".

It has no final value.

One last time:

\(\lim_{N \rightarrow \infty} \sum_{n = 1}^N \frac{9}{10^n} = \sum_{n=1}^\infty \frac{9}{10^n}= 0.9 + 0.09 + 0.009 + ... = 0.999... = 1.\)

You don't even understand what you are arguing.
 
You don't know.

I am not arguing an equivalence where an infinite string by magic ends.

You are introducing limits (from left field) to make use of the expression, not proving it has a final value.

You are rounding off by definition when the difference is insignificant, not proving the 9's end.
 
This is a discussion about an entity that is defined to never have a final value.

It has nothing to do with infinitesimals.

We are not dividing something into infinite pieces.

We are extending a defined entity "9" in a string without the possibility of that string ever ending. Never do we have an "infinitesimal".

It has no final value.

One last time:

\(\lim_{N \rightarrow \infty} \sum_{n = 1}^N \frac{9}{10^n} = \sum_{n=1}^\infty \frac{9}{10^n}= 0.9 + 0.09 + 0.009 + ... = 0.999... = 1.\)

You don't even understand what you are arguing.
People have yet to provide evidence that untermensche has any understanding of anything.

I don't think he understands that what you describe is the equivalent of never subtracting a .0...0001 from 1, because there is no smallest .0000.....00001. So you aren't subtracting anything..... as the limit is zero, since you never reach the 1.

Is \(0\,= \, \lim_{n\to\infty} \,\, 10^{-n}\)? It's the equivalent of taking a line and dividing it into points- or reducing it's dimensionality by 1.

Dividing by infinity reduces a dimension by 1.
 
You don't know.

I am not arguing an equivalence where an infinite string by magic ends.

You are introducing limits (from left field) to make use of the expression, not proving it has a final value.

You are rounding off by definition when the difference is insignificant, not proving the 9's end.

You are not arguing anything. You're crying foul whenever something doesn't fit your preconceived conclusions, or whenever reality becomes too complex for you too understand (presumably mostly, because you aren't even trying; you probably could be a smart boy if you wanted).
 
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