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The motive and effect of "Black people can't be racist"

This isn't a case of failing to find persuasive wording. This is a case of going out of your way to find unpersuasive wording.
What is your evidence that this is true?

They know it exists; it's just not on the same scale as the thing that they're referring to when they speak of racism. It's not a social justice issue; it's not a group-level issue. In a way, bringing it up can be a distraction from the social justice issue, like those posts in rape threads where guys suggest ways for women to avoid being raped.

But do they have a special separate word for it?
I don't know. And there's probably only one of "them" in this forum, and it's been established that she's not forthcoming. So if you're still curious, you'll probably have to actually ask someone on another website.

They have defined "racism" so as to exclude it. That makes it look like they are trying to hide it.
That may be how you perceive it, but different people perceive things differently. You're making a claim about the way people perceive something. What proportion of people are you talking about, and what is your evidence that you truly speak for them?

Bringing it up and overstressing it can be a distraction from a social justice issue sure

Do you have any idea what strategy could be employed to prevent such distractions?

, but going out of your way to fail to acknowledge it exists, is I think an even bigger distraction from that issue. You lose a lot of credibility when you fail to acknowledge in yourself what you look to address in others, even if the amount of it in yourself is tiny in comparison.

That may be true as a general principle, but this is again ultimately a claim which relies upon people's perceptions. Maybe they lose credibility with you because you perceive them as exhibiting the same thing that they look to address in others, and you perceive them as failing to address that. The idea that they're going out of their way to fail to acknowledge it is also your perception, not a fact. So the question is, how many other people perceive things the same way as you, and what evidence is there that they're worth paying attention to?

In what contexts is it done?

I have now spotted it in many contexts. The most common context is that of a black person complaining about white racists and demanding that white racism stop.
To whom are they complaining? Who is their audience?
 
Now I know you don't think groups exist, but your thinking doesn't change reality.

I have never said groups don't exist. What I have said is that in this regard groups don't matter. Individuals are the victims of racism.
 
If it bothers some white people so much that black people in the USA cannot meet the definition of racism because they lack the institutional power to enforce and entrench their bigotry, they should simply cede the institutional power to black people for a 100 years and see what happens.


The definition of racism is judging people based on race. How can black people in the USA not meet that definition?
 
If it bothers some white people so much that black people in the USA cannot meet the definition of racism because they lack the institutional power to enforce and entrench their bigotry, they should simply cede the institutional power to black people for a 100 years and see what happens.


The definition of racism is judging people based on race. How can black people in the USA not meet that definition?

If the definition doesn't support your position you simply change the definition.
 
As to black people being racist, it's certainly possible for black people to consider white people subhuman. Consider  Leonard Jeffries's theory of nice black "Sun People" and nasty white "Ice People", for instance.

Given people's willingness to hate other groups of people for no good reason at all, that should not be surprising. Also, being the target of irrational hatred has never kept anyone from irrationally hating some other group of people. Given his university position, Leonard Jeffries must be aware of the long history of many US white people considering black people to be subhuman.
 
If it bothers some white people so much that black people in the USA cannot meet the definition of racism because they lack the institutional power to enforce and entrench their bigotry, they should simply cede the institutional power to black people for a 100 years and see what happens.


The definition of racism is judging people based on race. How can black people in the USA not meet that definition?
Because it is not THE DEFINITION of racism.
 
Racism is not just about judging people according to race, it is about ranking people according to race, defining race in ways that benefit the dominant group, and then implementing policies and procedures that make real the ranking. Supremacies of any kind are both brutal and sublime, and their biggest advantage is their ability to hide themselves from the dominant group, thus insuring their continued existence.
 
What is your evidence that this is true?

That they know the commonly accepted definition of racism, and that they insist on using another. To be lazy would be to use the common term and not think about it. It takes some thought to use a secondary definition, especially when you know people will confuse it for the more common one. This isn't an oops-didn't-think. This is a deliberate choice of words.

Bringing it up and overstressing it can be a distraction from a social justice issue sure

Do you have any idea what strategy could be employed to prevent such distractions?

Yes. Acknowledge it and move on. Making a show out of avoiding it, pretending it doesn't exist, and redefining common words so as to exclude it, is making a show of it.

Compare this:

"Tribal impulse and us vs them thinking happens to all of us. It is something we should try to be aware of and control within ourselves. When you add centuries of power imbalance to it, and when it gets ingrained into the very customs and systems of society, it is especially potent. It becomes part of the institution. We should be on guard against that especially. Even if you yourself are not a prejudiced or bigoted person, you can still benefit from such an institution. This is what people mean when they say "white privilige" in America. It doesn't mean there are no privileged black people or disprivileged white people. It means that all else being equal being white has benefits over being black..... and this is how [insert examples and research]... and this is what we can do about it.. [insert your ideas]"

To this:

"Racism and white supremacy are cancers in our society. If you are white, first admit it in yourself. Stop participating in it. Admit you benefit from white privilege, and then listen to black people, who have been subjected to centuries of abuse by white people. And stop accusing black people of "reverse racism". Black people can't be racist, because racism requires power, and white people have lorded over black people for centuries. This is what white people do to black people .. [insert examples and research] and this is what you should do about it [insert your ideas]"

I just wrote both off the top of my head. Which do you think will accomplish more in fighting against racism? Which do you think will do more to counter white privilege? Which do you think will cause more division? I strongly suspect that people who push the "black people can't be racist" rhetoric are blind to this.
 
Racism is not just about judging people according to race, it is about ranking people according to race, defining race in ways that benefit the dominant group, and then implementing policies and procedures that make real the ranking. Supremacies of any kind are both brutal and sublime, and their biggest advantage is their ability to hide themselves from the dominant group, thus insuring their continued existence.
By this standard, Leonard Jeffries clearly qualifies as a black racist, despite not having the social position to enforce (say) black people having all the intellectual jobs and leadership positions, with white people having all the menial jobs.
 
That they know the commonly accepted definition of racism, and that they insist on using another. To be lazy would be to use the common term and not think about it. It takes some thought to use a secondary definition, especially when you know people will confuse it for the more common one. This isn't an oops-didn't-think. This is a deliberate choice of words.

Laziness is a spectrum. The laziest option would be to not bother promoting a political agenda at all. For examples elsewhere on the spectrum, see your two examples of rhetorical strategies below. The former is less dichotomous, less simplistic, contains more qualifiers, and requires extending empathy and diplomacy to others with no guarantee that one will receive it in return. It is a more cognitively and emotionally laborious strategy to undertake.

A person who uses a less common definition of racism is not necessarily going out of their way. That it's less common among the general population doesn't entail that it's less common within the circles with whom the speaker associates. It may well be that they disagree with the common definition, just as many of us in the atheist-sphere disagree with more common definitions of "atheism", instead preferring the "absence of belief" definition. Sticking with one's personal lexicon rather than trying to match someone else's usage is very much within one's way.

I've experienced this myself in non-political contexts-- the popular terminology may reflect popular misconceptions, and it can be prohibitively costly in terms of time and effort to express my ideas clearly and coherently without unpacking the assumptions built into the popular terminology and introducing unfamiliar jargon. At times, I've given up on trying to make myself understood by as many people as possible, and simply defaulted to speaking the way that I think and hoping for the best. The alternative tends to result in very long posts.

The previous paragraph can be expressed more concisely using unfamiliar jargon-- it's difficult to communicate with people across a wide inferential distance. That's probably why you may often see social justice enthusiasts try to make you follow links to educate yourself in what they're talking about, instead of explaining it to you themselves.

Do you have any idea what strategy could be employed to prevent such distractions?

Yes. Acknowledge it and move on. Making a show out of avoiding it, pretending it doesn't exist, and redefining common words so as to exclude it, is making a show of it.

Compare this:

"Tribal impulse and us vs them thinking happens to all of us. It is something we should try to be aware of and control within ourselves. When you add centuries of power imbalance to it, and when it gets ingrained into the very customs and systems of society, it is especially potent. It becomes part of the institution. We should be on guard against that especially. Even if you yourself are not a prejudiced or bigoted person, you can still benefit from such an institution. This is what people mean when they say "white privilige" in America. It doesn't mean there are no privileged black people or disprivileged white people. It means that all else being equal being white has benefits over being black..... and this is how [insert examples and research]... and this is what we can do about it.. [insert your ideas]"

To this:

"Racism and white supremacy are cancers in our society. If you are white, first admit it in yourself. Stop participating in it. Admit you benefit from white privilege, and then listen to black people, who have been subjected to centuries of abuse by white people. And stop accusing black people of "reverse racism". Black people can't be racist, because racism requires power, and white people have lorded over black people for centuries. This is what white people do to black people .. [insert examples and research] and this is what you should do about it [insert your ideas]"

I just wrote both off the top of my head. Which do you think will accomplish more in fighting against racism? Which do you think will do more to counter white privilege? Which do you think will cause more division?
My best guess is that the second approach is better suited to people who are naive, already leaning in your direction, already guilt-stricken, or otherwise low-hanging fruit, while the first is better suited to people who are on the fence or skeptical.

I strongly suspect that people who push the "black people can't be racist" rhetoric are blind to this.
To call them "blind" is rhetoric in line with your second example. I would say instead that they disagree with you about which rhetorical strategy is better; they probably have different operational definitions of "better", and different benchmarks by which it is measured. People are complicated. They have explicit goals, and then they have various other motivations that they aren't necessarily even aware of, and others they are aware of but keep hidden. I see that in this subforum in practically every thread. People speak to persuade, to inform, to vent their feelings, to gain status, all sorts of things.

I am starting to suspect that defeating white racism is not their goal.
I doubt it's their only psychological motive, but it may well be the only goal of which they are consciously aware.

A rational person would not demand division or parade prejudice and tribal impulse to combat those very things.
This site should be sufficient evidence that rational people stop being rational when the topic of discussion becomes politics. It seems to me that tribal impulse is one of the main motivators of political discourse. To decry it categorically would open most participants up to justified accusations of almost never practicing what one preaches. To avoid the hypocrisy and actually avoid siding with one tribe or another would relegate one to the irrelevant sidelines of most political discussions(as most are about two teams scoring points against one another, not uncovering the truth and reaching solutions), which would undermine one of the motives underlying communication (attention).
 
Racism is not just about judging people according to race, it is about ranking people according to race, defining race in ways that benefit the dominant group, and then implementing policies and procedures that make real the ranking. Supremacies of any kind are both brutal and sublime, and their biggest advantage is their ability to hide themselves from the dominant group, thus insuring their continued existence.
By this standard, Leonard Jeffries clearly qualifies as a black racist, despite not having the social position to enforce (say) black people having all the intellectual jobs and leadership positions, with white people having all the menial jobs.

So he is a racist, by this definition, except when he isn't?

Is he an angry man with outlandish views, some quite despicable? Yes. Is he a ideological black supremacist? Yes. Can he make real his ideas? He couldn't even hold on to his job.
 
Racism is not just about judging people according to race, it is about ranking people according to race, defining race in ways that benefit the dominant group, and then implementing policies and procedures that make real the ranking. Supremacies of any kind are both brutal and sublime, and their biggest advantage is their ability to hide themselves from the dominant group, thus insuring their continued existence.

So the black-on-white cases mentioned in this thread aren't racism?

What are they, clownism?
 
Racism is not just about judging people according to race, it is about ranking people according to race, defining race in ways that benefit the dominant group, and then implementing policies and procedures that make real the ranking. Supremacies of any kind are both brutal and sublime, and their biggest advantage is their ability to hide themselves from the dominant group, thus insuring their continued existence.

So the black-on-white cases mentioned in this thread aren't racism?

What are they, clownism?

Bigotry, prejudice, chauvinism, intolerance, etc.
 
Racism is not just about judging people according to race, it is about ranking people according to race, defining race in ways that benefit the dominant group, and then implementing policies and procedures that make real the ranking. Supremacies of any kind are both brutal and sublime, and their biggest advantage is their ability to hide themselves from the dominant group, thus insuring their continued existence.

So the black-on-white cases mentioned in this thread aren't racism?

What are they, clownism?

No, it's racism.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/racism

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/racism

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/american-english/racism

http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/racism
 
Interesting Take on the reaction to and the battle over the word racist

In conversation with conservatives, liberals risk being called naïve or willfully blind to potential threats—not very pleasant labels, but not especially damaging ones, either. In contrast, conservatives risk accusations of racism—and “being called a racist carries a particular cultural force,” the researchers write.

“The experience of being perceived as racist loomed large in the mind of conservative fans (we interviewed),” they report. Every single conservative respondent raised the issue of being called racist, and did so without even being asked.

“What makes accusations of racism so upsetting for respondents is that racism is socially stigmatized, but also that they feel powerless to defend themselves once the specter is raised,” the researchers add. “We suspect that this heightened social risk increases the appeal of the safe political environs provided by outrage-based programs, and may partially explain the overwhelming conservative dominance of outrage-based political talk media.”
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/10/conservatives-biggest-fear-being-called-racist
 
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