The New Testament as a guide for living for atheists

[TomC]

According to Browne, the key thing in daily life is to practice Islam, the subordination of the ego to the god within. He points to all the wisdom traditions to support his views. In particular, he identifies Jesus as the great master of this teaching.

Sounds like he reinvented BaHai.
Tom

 

[No Robots]

According to Browne, the key thing in daily life is to practice Islam, the subordination of the ego to the god within. He points to all the wisdom traditions to support his views. In particular, he identifies Jesus as the great master of this teaching.

Sounds like he reinvented BaHai.
Tom

Definitely some affinities. I like Browne for a number of reasons. What I like best is that he correlates his doctrine to specific developments in history. He thereby provides insight into our own time and its particular function in the development spiritual life.

 

[steve_bank]

Comseering the long history of relgion I;d hardly call it wisdom.

Today Hindu India vs Muslim Pakistan.
Jewish Israel vs Arabs and Persian Muslims.
Witness the behavior of the Qatari Muslim state during the World Cup. Foreigners there for the tournament taken into custody for wearing colors believed to be emblematic of gay rights.

Islamic states are contrary to my western liberal democratic values and personal liberties. Line the freedom to criticize and be con tray to religion.

The problem occurs when people's images of god and what god wants do not agree.

To those who profess a superior wisdom of Islam I invite them to express themseves with their feet and live in a Muslim country. The thing is I believe the majority of Muslims use to high tolernce of different relgionsin in the west woud want to live in an Ismaic state.

 

[No Robots]

There is a distinction between authentic spiritual life and its distortion into oppressive social controls. The former is a matter of inner dynamics and the latter is one of external imposition.

 

[James Brown]

@No Robots , are you living up to the commands in the New Testament?

 

[No Robots]

Yeah, dude, I'm pious as fuck.

 

[DBT]

According to Browne, the key thing in daily life is to practice Islam, the subordination of the ego to the god within. He points to all the wisdom traditions to support his views. In particular, he identifies Jesus as the great master of this teaching.

Sounds like he reinvented BaHai.
Tom

Definitely some affinities. I like Browne for a number of reasons. What I like best is that he correlates his doctrine to specific developments in history. He thereby provides insight into our own time and its particular function in the development spiritual life.

Are Gods moral standards and values not meant to be eternal and absolute? If we are told 'thou shalt not kill,' does that not stand for all time?

 

[No Robots]

Are Gods moral standards and values not meant to be eternal and absolute? If we are told 'thou shalt not kill,' does that not stand for all time?

Wow, dude, try to add a little complexity to your diet. It's like fiber. It keeps you regular. Time is a real thing, change is a real thing, process is a real thing. The law was made to serve man. If killing is necessary, go ahead and kill. The objective is to end killing. But when do we get there? Who knows? We live in the now but we live for the eternal.

 

[DBT]

Are Gods moral standards and values not meant to be eternal and absolute? If we are told 'thou shalt not kill,' does that not stand for all time?

Wow, dude, try to add a little complexity to your diet. It's like fiber. It keeps you regular. Time is a real thing, change is a real thing, process is a real thing. The law was made to serve man. If killing is necessary, go ahead and kill. The objective is to end killing. But when do we get there? Who knows? We live in the now but we live for the eternal.

So the commandments and the golden rule are merely a rough guide for living? That God doesn't hold these values, that what is deemed immoral or unethical in one time and place, thou shalt not kill, steal, etc, may be deemed fine and proper in another time and place? After all, complexity is the spice of life?

 

[No Robots]

So the commandments and the golden rule are merely a rough guide for living? That God doesn't hold these values, that what is deemed immoral or unethical in one time and place, thou shalt not kill, steal, etc, may be deemed fine and proper in another time and place? After all, complexity is the spice of life?

Something like that. If I may recommend some reading to you, try Harry Waton's Ethics. Table of contents:

[No. 1] Ethics, the culmination of a true monistic philosophy --No. 2. Nature, aim and scope of ethics -- No. 3. The ideal of ethics -- No. 4. Good and evil, the law of equivalents -- No. 5. Free will and determinism --No. 6. The ethics of Moses -- No. 7. The ethics of the prophets -- No. 8. The ethics of Confucius -- No. 9. The ethics of Buddha -- No. 10. The ethics of Plato -- No. 11. The ethics of Aristotle -- No. 12 The ethics of the Stoics, etc. -- No. 13. The ethics of the rabbis -- No. 14. The ethics of Jesus -- No. 15. The ethics of Paul -- No. 16. Patristic and scholastic ethics -- No. 17. Ethics of Mohammed -- No. 18. Ethics of Spinoza -- No. 19. Ethics of Leibnitz -- No. 20. Ethics of Kant -- No. 21. Ethics of Hegel -- No. 22. Ethics of Schopenhauer -- No. 23. Ethics of Nietche -- No. 24. Ethics of Spencer -- No. 25. Ethics of Marx -- No. 26. Ethics of Fascism.
No. 29. Milton's Paradise lost -- No. 33. Freud's Moses and monotheism -- No. 34. Ideal of ethics and destiny of mankind.

 

[steve_bank]

There is a distinction between authentic spiritual life and its distortion into oppressive social controls. The former is a matter of inner dynamics and the latter is one of external imposition.

Only in your thoughts and imagination.

I think Buddhism would say it is all illusory. Enlightenment in the end just another mid fabricated concept. A construct. People talk about enlightenment in eastern traditions and get a buzz from it. A sense of the mystical. Those feel good brain chemicals, endorphins. That is the power of faith and belief.

A belief there is something hidden and deep to be discovered. Something mu serious.

Excuse me I have to go contort myself into the full Lotus position and chant OM while contemplating my naval. Works for me.

 

[DBT]

So the commandments and the golden rule are merely a rough guide for living? That God doesn't hold these values, that what is deemed immoral or unethical in one time and place, thou shalt not kill, steal, etc, may be deemed fine and proper in another time and place? After all, complexity is the spice of life?

Something like that. If I may recommend some reading to you, try Harry Waton's Ethics. Table of contents:

[No. 1] Ethics, the culmination of a true monistic philosophy --No. 2. Nature, aim and scope of ethics -- No. 3. The ideal of ethics -- No. 4. Good and evil, the law of equivalents -- No. 5. Free will and determinism --No. 6. The ethics of Moses -- No. 7. The ethics of the prophets -- No. 8. The ethics of Confucius -- No. 9. The ethics of Buddha -- No. 10. The ethics of Plato -- No. 11. The ethics of Aristotle -- No. 12 The ethics of the Stoics, etc. -- No. 13. The ethics of the rabbis -- No. 14. The ethics of Jesus -- No. 15. The ethics of Paul -- No. 16. Patristic and scholastic ethics -- No. 17. Ethics of Mohammed -- No. 18. Ethics of Spinoza -- No. 19. Ethics of Leibnitz -- No. 20. Ethics of Kant -- No. 21. Ethics of Hegel -- No. 22. Ethics of Schopenhauer -- No. 23. Ethics of Nietche -- No. 24. Ethics of Spencer -- No. 25. Ethics of Marx -- No. 26. Ethics of Fascism.
No. 29. Milton's Paradise lost -- No. 33. Freud's Moses and monotheism -- No. 34. Ideal of ethics and destiny of mankind.

That's a dodge. Instead of dealing with what is said, you deflect by referring to a large body of work in the hope that doing this resolves the issue in your favour.

 

[Learner]

According to Browne, the key thing in daily life is to practice Islam, the subordination of the ego to the god within. He points to all the wisdom traditions to support his views. In particular, he identifies Jesus as the great master of this teaching.

Sounds like he reinvented BaHai.
Tom

Definitely some affinities. I like Browne for a number of reasons. What I like best is that he correlates his doctrine to specific developments in history. He thereby provides insight into our own time and its particular function in the development spiritual life.

Are Gods moral standards and values not meant to be eternal and absolute? If we are told 'thou shalt not kill,' does that not stand for all time?

'Thou shalt not kill' would be quite a confliction, I mean a lot of people are meat eaters.

Is it murder to kill a goose for a Sunday roast? I suspect that forever eternal, we'll all be eating fruit and veg.

"Thou shalt not murder" is the original commandment.

 

[Learner]

@No Robots , are you living up to the commands in the New Testament?

And.. for the non-believers... are they living up to the Golden Rule?

 

[DBT]

According to Browne, the key thing in daily life is to practice Islam, the subordination of the ego to the god within. He points to all the wisdom traditions to support his views. In particular, he identifies Jesus as the great master of this teaching.

Sounds like he reinvented BaHai.
Tom

Definitely some affinities. I like Browne for a number of reasons. What I like best is that he correlates his doctrine to specific developments in history. He thereby provides insight into our own time and its particular function in the development spiritual life.

Are Gods moral standards and values not meant to be eternal and absolute? If we are told 'thou shalt not kill,' does that not stand for all time?

'Thou shalt not kill' would be quite a confliction, I mean a lot of people are meat eaters.

Is it murder to kill a goose for a Sunday roast? I suspect that forever eternal, we'll all be eating fruit and veg.

"Thou shalt not murder" is the original commandment.

Isn't it clear that biblical commandment 'thou shalt not kill' refers to our fellow man, not sheep, cattle, etc, for food?

Do you think that God, giving this commandment, is fine with murder? Or perhaps it's relative, murder is fine in one period in history, but not another?

Which, if so, makes the moral values given by God relative to time, place and circumstance?

 

[bilby]

"Thou shalt not murder" is the original commandment.

No, it's fucking not.

Who are you to contradict God?

"Thou shalt not murder" is a VERY modern re-interpretation of the commandment. It's not at all clear what "the original" commandment is (though it assuredly wasn't expressed in English at all), but it wasn't "Thou shalt not murder" any more than it was "10% off under sixteen admissions to EuroDisney".

 

[Learner]

"Thou shalt not murder" is the original commandment.

No, it's fucking not.

This idea was always in my mind.. hence my auto-response, just a little revision check, but you are correct.

Who are you to contradict God?

How wonderful to see you say this because that's what I've seen atheist's try to do.

"Thou shalt not murder" is a VERY modern re-interpretation of the commandment. It's not at all clear what "the original" commandment is (though it assuredly wasn't expressed in English at all), but it wasn't "Thou shalt not murder" any more than it was "10% off under sixteen admissions to EuroDisney".

Wonderful again, to see that you bring this up, which are the same things Christians are concerned about, regarding very modern translations.

 

[Learner]

According to Browne, the key thing in daily life is to practice Islam, the subordination of the ego to the god within. He points to all the wisdom traditions to support his views. In particular, he identifies Jesus as the great master of this teaching.

Sounds like he reinvented BaHai.
Tom

Definitely some affinities. I like Browne for a number of reasons. What I like best is that he correlates his doctrine to specific developments in history. He thereby provides insight into our own time and its particular function in the development spiritual life.

Are Gods moral standards and values not meant to be eternal and absolute? If we are told 'thou shalt not kill,' does that not stand for all time?

'Thou shalt not kill' would be quite a confliction, I mean a lot of people are meat eaters.

Is it murder to kill a goose for a Sunday roast? I suspect that forever eternal, we'll all be eating fruit and veg.

"Thou shalt not murder" is the original commandment.

Isn't it clear that biblical commandment 'thou shalt not kill' refers to our fellow man, not sheep, cattle, etc, for food?

Word for word ... isn't clear unless you know of the bible. Getting the context is what counts.

Do you think that God, giving this commandment, is fine with murder? Or perhaps it's relative, murder is fine in one period in history, but not another?

Which, if so, makes the moral values given by God relative to time, place and circumstance?

Are you really expecting me to agree with YOUR view as you understand them? As bilby said of me, you are also contradicting God.

 

[bilby]

"Thou shalt not murder" is the original commandment.

No, it's fucking not.

This idea was always in my mind.. hence my auto-response, just a little revision check, but you are correct.

Who are you to contradict God?

How wonderful to see you say this because that's what I've seen atheist's try to do.

"Thou shalt not murder" is a VERY modern re-interpretation of the commandment. It's not at all clear what "the original" commandment is (though it assuredly wasn't expressed in English at all), but it wasn't "Thou shalt not murder" any more than it was "10% off under sixteen admissions to EuroDisney".

Wonderful again, to see that you bring this up, which are the same things Christians are concerned about, regarding very modern translations.

Atheists can never contradict Gods. They don't accept that Gods ever said anything to begin with.

You, on the other hand, are contradicting the things you believe God said.

I note, however, that you imagine your joyful wonder at finding common ground with me, has somehow blinded us both to the necessity for you to actually address the point I made.

Would you like to try to actually consider, and perhaps respond to, that point?

To refresh your memory, you were busy telling us all that your incorrect opinion about what God said, was a solid justification for your reinterpretation of His commandments to suit your personal opinions.

Just like every other self-serving religionist in history.

 

[Learner]

"Thou shalt not murder" is the original commandment.

No, it's fucking not.

This idea was always in my mind.. hence my auto-response, just a little revision check, but you are correct.

Who are you to contradict God?

How wonderful to see you say this because that's what I've seen atheist's try to do.

"Thou shalt not murder" is a VERY modern re-interpretation of the commandment. It's not at all clear what "the original" commandment is (though it assuredly wasn't expressed in English at all), but it wasn't "Thou shalt not murder" any more than it was "10% off under sixteen admissions to EuroDisney".

Wonderful again, to see that you bring this up, which are the same things Christians are concerned about, regarding very modern translations.

Atheists can never contradict Gods. They don't accept that Gods ever said anything to begin with.

Technically yeah, but If atheists say there are contradictions in the bible then in a different view, atheists can attempt to contradict God's character .

As so often used: "God can't be a loving God" because these people being killed contradicts that!

You, on the other hand, are contradicting the things you believe God said.

How many things? Point them out!

I note, however, that you imagine your joyful wonder at finding common ground with me, has somehow blinded us both to the necessity for you to actually address the point I made.

Would you like to try to actually consider, and perhaps respond to, that point?

Experience has shown me... when I do, sometimes the point can extend of morph.

What was the point again to be sure?

To refresh your memory, you were busy telling us all that your incorrect opinion about what God said, was a solid justification for your reinterpretation of His commandments to suit your personal opinions.

Hmmm.. commandments you put plural. And such a "big" point to hang your argument on, having little weight - the words, murder and killing are quite satisfactory interchangeable. The contrast between the two have the same meaning. I can use any of these two words since it doesn't change the context of the commandment.

Just like every other self-serving religionist in history.

And when people are self-serving but not religious?