The No Secret Police Act

[thebeave]

If you mean the new mask law, that has been signed into law, but that does not necessarily mean it is constitutional at the federal level. Or do you have evidence it is?

Out of curiosity, what part of the Constitution might you think this violates? What rights would an ICE agent claim is being violated when he sues the state of California?

Does the federal government, in particular ICE, have a mandated policy that he must wear a mask and wear no uniform or identifying insignia? I could imagine if that were ICE policy then we might have a conflict between federal and state law.

Court rulings cast doubt on California mask ban for federal officers

Newsom and any other critics of ICE tactics are delusional if they believe federal officers will be arrested and prosecuted for wearing masks after SB 627 takes effect. State and local authorities have no power to arrest federal officers for official actions, no matter how questionable they may be, which was made clear by a U.S. Supreme Court decision involving a U.S. marshal fatally shooting a former California Supreme Court justice in 1889 and a 1972 shooting death of a suspected drug dealer in Humboldt County.

Also, this:

Absent Federal Consent California Cannot Regulate ICE’s Use of Masks

Late last week, California Governor Gavin Newsom signed into law a package of bills, including one (SB 627) that seeks to presumptively prohibit all law enforcement officers—both federal and state—operating in the state from covering their faces (i.e., wearing masks) when engaging with members of the public. The measure contains various exceptions, including clear plastic shields, medical masks, and various types of protective eyewear. Violations of the law would be punished as misdemeanors. In the space below, I explain why SB 627 (and most of the other bills Governor Newsom signed that implicate similar analyses and are likely to suffer a similar fate) would at this time seem to be constitutionally dead on arrival.

 

[ZiprHead]

Yea! Governor Newsome once again leads the way and has signed into law a bill banning ICE from wearing masks. Yea! I think that it's outrageous that they are allowed to wear masks. I see no good reason for ICE to wear masks. IMO, masks intimidate people, reduces accountability, and lowers public faith. I have family members that served and continue to serve as police officers. They are just as much hated as some people hate ice. And yet they proudly and bravely identify themselves in public and do not hide from people.

https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area-ice-raids/ice-agents-masked-ban/

Is it even legal for Newsom to do this, though? How does he, as a state government authority, have the right to tell federal law enforcement what to wear (or not wear)? Does this mean if he wanted them to wear pink shorts and socks with "I hate ICE" printed on them, he could do so?

There is a stated purpose for wearing the masks though, and that is to deter facial identification and subsequent doxxing, harrassment and harm (to themselves or their families). I don't know how serious a concern that is, but it seems plausible. There was an attack directed at an ICE facility this week resulting in deaths (though not ICE officers), so there are real people out there with nefarious intent. It would be particularly egregious, if there was an attack on an ICE agent who has avoided aggressive tactics. Just like a city policeman, they are not all bad.

If this law does go through, and some random ICE agent is doxxed and ultimately killed because he was maskless, Newsom is going to have blood on his hands. Which does not portend well for his presidential ambitions, as a minimum. Could he face criminal charges? Not sure.

The threat of doxing could be used for ANY enforcement agency.

Enforcement officers of the government do not have a right to anonymity. They work for us. FBI get to walk around with masks on too next? You know, because of doxing and blood on people's hands?

Ever hear of LE going undercover? It's a common thing. You should look it up.

Cops going undercover don't wear masks to hide their identity. Poor analogy.

 

[thebeave]

Yea! Governor Newsome once again leads the way and has signed into law a bill banning ICE from wearing masks. Yea! I think that it's outrageous that they are allowed to wear masks. I see no good reason for ICE to wear masks. IMO, masks intimidate people, reduces accountability, and lowers public faith. I have family members that served and continue to serve as police officers. They are just as much hated as some people hate ice. And yet they proudly and bravely identify themselves in public and do not hide from people.

https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area-ice-raids/ice-agents-masked-ban/

Is it even legal for Newsom to do this, though? How does he, as a state government authority, have the right to tell federal law enforcement what to wear (or not wear)? Does this mean if he wanted them to wear pink shorts and socks with "I hate ICE" printed on them, he could do so?

There is a stated purpose for wearing the masks though, and that is to deter facial identification and subsequent doxxing, harrassment and harm (to themselves or their families). I don't know how serious a concern that is, but it seems plausible. There was an attack directed at an ICE facility this week resulting in deaths (though not ICE officers), so there are real people out there with nefarious intent. It would be particularly egregious, if there was an attack on an ICE agent who has avoided aggressive tactics. Just like a city policeman, they are not all bad.

If this law does go through, and some random ICE agent is doxxed and ultimately killed because he was maskless, Newsom is going to have blood on his hands. Which does not portend well for his presidential ambitions, as a minimum. Could he face criminal charges? Not sure.

The threat of doxing could be used for ANY enforcement agency.

Enforcement officers of the government do not have a right to anonymity. They work for us. FBI get to walk around with masks on too next? You know, because of doxing and blood on people's hands?

Ever hear of LE going undercover? It's a common thing. You should look it up.

Cops going undercover don't wear masks to hide their identity. Poor analogy.

I was mostly alluding to Jimmy's false claim that government LE do not have a right to anonymity, by mentioning undercover work. I fail to see a substantial difference between someone wearing a face mask or a complement of wig, facial hair, makeup, clothing, tatoos, etc. The end result is the same...to hide their true identity.

 

[Elixir]

If this law does go through, and some random ICE agent is doxxed and ultimately killed because he was maskless, Newsom is going to have blood on his hands. Which does not portend well for his presidential ambitions,

So... that's GOOD for the Republicans. I wouldn't put it past them to make it happen.
It's not like there aren't a bunch of low IQ gangster cowboys out there eager to replace whoever gets killed. It's well worth the billionaire coalition's sacrifice - what's losing one or two if it's for The Cau$e?
I don't know as much about I.C.E. but I can tell you first hand that the quality of lower management and front line operators in CBP was much greater in 2016 than in 2019, and little was done to fix it during the Biden years. ICE never seemed to be full of jacked up violence prone rednecks back then, but I had much less time with them.
We are getting to a point where people who have kids now, will never see them grow up as free citizens even if the current fascist damage to our systems was to reverse itself tomorrow.

 

[thebeave]

If this law does go through, and some random ICE agent is doxxed and ultimately killed because he was maskless, Newsom is going to have blood on his hands. Which does not portend well for his presidential ambitions,

So... that's GOOD for the Republicans. I wouldn't put it past them to make it happen.
It's not like there aren't a bunch of low IQ gangster cowboys out there eager to replace whoever gets killed. It's well worth the billionaire coalition's sacrifice - what's losing one or two if it's for The Cau$e?
I don't know as much about I.C.E. but I can tell you first hand that the quality of lower management and front line operators in CBP was much greater in 2016 than in 2019, and little was done to fix it during the Biden years. ICE never seemed to be full of jacked up violence prone rednecks back then, but I had much less time with them.
We are getting to a point where people who have kids now, will never see them grow up as free citizens even if the current fascist damage to our systems was to reverse itself tomorrow.

Well, its actually a moot point. Its unlikely anyone from ICE is going to abide by Newsom's order. See my post #21. I'm leaning toward the idea that Newsom knew this bill was dead in the water from the get-go, and its just more political theater to draw attention. Trump and all the red states live rent free in his head 24/7. Since he doesn't have the smarts needed to govern, he does what he can, which is to just rage and wave his hands around like a drunk sign language interpreter and pass anti-Trump legislation.

 

[Elixir]

Trump and all the red states live rent free in his head 24/7.

That's his job as a presidential hopeful. Poor dude.

 

[bilby]

Yea! Governor Newsome once again leads the way and has signed into law a bill banning ICE from wearing masks. Yea! I think that it's outrageous that they are allowed to wear masks. I see no good reason for ICE to wear masks. IMO, masks intimidate people, reduces accountability, and lowers public faith. I have family members that served and continue to serve as police officers. They are just as much hated as some people hate ice. And yet they proudly and bravely identify themselves in public and do not hide from people.

https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area-ice-raids/ice-agents-masked-ban/

Is it even legal for Newsom to do this, though? How does he, as a state government authority, have the right to tell federal law enforcement what to wear (or not wear)? Does this mean if he wanted them to wear pink shorts and socks with "I hate ICE" printed on them, he could do so?

There is a stated purpose for wearing the masks though, and that is to deter facial identification and subsequent doxxing, harrassment and harm (to themselves or their families). I don't know how serious a concern that is, but it seems plausible. There was an attack directed at an ICE facility this week resulting in deaths (though not ICE officers), so there are real people out there with nefarious intent. It would be particularly egregious, if there was an attack on an ICE agent who has avoided aggressive tactics. Just like a city policeman, they are not all bad.

If this law does go through, and some random ICE agent is doxxed and ultimately killed because he was maskless, Newsom is going to have blood on his hands. Which does not portend well for his presidential ambitions, as a minimum. Could he face criminal charges? Not sure.

The threat of doxing could be used for ANY enforcement agency.

Enforcement officers of the government do not have a right to anonymity. They work for us. FBI get to walk around with masks on too next? You know, because of doxing and blood on people's hands?

Ever hear of LE going undercover? It's a common thing. You should look it up.

Cops going undercover don't wear masks to hide their identity. Poor analogy.

I was mostly alluding to Jimmy's false claim that government LE do not have a right to anonymity, by mentioning undercover work. I fail to see a substantial difference between someone wearing a face mask or a complement of wig, facial hair, makeup, clothing, tatoos, etc. The end result is the same...to hide their true identity.

The difference is that an undercover cop is pretending not to be in any way associated with law enforcement. He is quietly collecting evidence against suspects.

A masked cop is identifying himself as a cop, but refusing to identify which cop he is. He wants the authority, but not the accountability for any wrong-doing he himself might decide to perpetrate.

And it's hard to see why a person who claims to be a cop would want to maintain privacy, except in order to break the rules with impunity.

There was a big argument about this in the UK in the 1980s. Riot cops, who have to wear gas masks that conceal their faces, were required to have their ID number clearly visible on their uniform, so that a cop who overstepped the line could be identified and disciplined; But many were removing or concealing those numbers.

A similar requirement, that allows the police who police the police (internal standards, or whatever they call themselves) to identify offending officers, despite face coverings, and which protects those officers from doxxing or reprisals by criminals, by displaying only an ID number (which only people within the law enforcement community can use without a subpoena), seems to be the best option here.

Require all cops who cover their face, to display an ID number, and that way if you are attacked by masked men who claim to be law enforcement, but who have no such numbers on display, you can exercise your right to self defence to the full extent of that right, secure in the knowledge that you cannot be charged with resisting arrest, or assaulting an officer.