The objective mind

[untermensche]

Good to know that if a black widow spider bites it has no importance. Thanks for saving us all a trip to the doctor for treatment.

A mind that knows about black widows but can do nothing about it is a helpless thing.

How a non-autonomous mind that knows about the spider can make the body rush to the hospital is a miracle.

What has to be fully admitted is that one, we experience autonomy, and without autonomy the body would be doing things the mind does not want it to do.

Autonomy is no as much as it is yes. In fact it is much more no than yes.

It is "no" I will not prance and jump across the room like an ape. Like a young child. I will calmly walk across the room in total control.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

For the mentally incompetent unable to make any meaningful distinctions who see activity as the same thing as inert tissue there are cartoons.

Strawman and childish attempt at insult. Well done. Two examples of desperation.

The mind experiences pain.

The brain does not.

Category error. The body senses damage sending signals to the brain; the brain in turn processes the signals and reacts to the damage; we call that process "pain."

That is why they put the mind to sleep to do surgery but do not have to destroy the brain...*snip*

That's not how any of it works, but then why would that matter? It's like saying the projectionist put the film "to sleep" by turning off the projector.

Violin generates music

No. *snip* autistic bullshit

Because you start with a bad understanding and twist everything in service to it.

He wrote with a straight face and knowing full well that this is precisely what he is guilty of.

ALL “activities” do “specific things.”

Just bad understanding.

No, tautological.

 

[untermensche]

Category error. The body senses damage sending signals to the brain...

The body, the nervous system, reflexively reacts to stimuli.

But that is not pain.

Pain is a subjective experience.

Pain is in the mind.

It is not in the body or in the brain.

Do you even read what you post?

Thus the simple answer to the question "How does anesthesia work?" is that, although we know a great deal about the physiologic effects and macroscopic sites of action, we don't yet know the molecular mechanism(s) of action for general anesthetics.

We don't know how the mind is attenuated by these drugs.

Not surprisingly since we don't know what the mind is, what specific activity in all the activities going on is the specific activity creating a subjective mind.

But we do know the brain is not damaged by the drugs. The behavior of the brain is altered.

Some behavior of the brain, some sub-activity of the brain, creates the mind.

And changing the behavior changes the mind.

 

[fromderinside]

Proper conditioning would help us understand your bleat. I suggest you use 'I believe' in every declaration wou write just so you don't appear to be such a lump.

For instance

I believe A mind that knows about black widows but can do nothing about it is a helpless thing.

I believe How a non-autonomous mind that knows about the spider can make the body rush to the hospital is a miracle.

I believe What has to be fully admitted is that one, we experience autonomy, and without autonomy the body would be doing things the mind does not want it to do.

I believe Autonomy is no as much as it is yes. In fact it is much more no than yes.

I believe It is "no" I will not prance and jump across the room like an ape. Like a young child. I will calmly walk across the room in total control.

There. Much better much less like Moses donchathink.

 

[untermensche]

Proper conditioning would help us understand your bleat...

You have just been conditioned to spew that and have no idea why.

I have been conditioned to say it is absolute nonsense.

I believe A mind that knows about black widows but can do nothing about it is a helpless thing.

You do not know the difference between belief and clear implication.

If a thing can know about danger but cannot do a thing about it that thing is helpless.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Category error. The body senses damage sending signals to the brain...

The body, the nervous system, reflexively reacts to stimuli.

But that is not pain.

Category error. You are simply redefining "pain." Pain is the word we use to refer to stimuli caused by damage to the body.

Pain is a subjective experience.

At the exact same time that it is an objective experience.

Pain is in the mind.

Mind is generated by the brain. Therefore, pain is in the brain.

It is not in the body or in the brain.

Categorically impossible.

Do you even read what you post?

Endless irony.

Some behavior of the brain,some sub-activity of the brain, creates the mind.

And changing the behavior changes the mind.

That's identical to saying "some behavior of the water creates the river. And changing the behavior, changes the river."

So what? You (ironically) keep trying to equivocate the heater with the heat it generates. What's the point? What's the endgame? The objective brain generates the subjective mind. It's EXACTLY what you are saying just without the strained, unnecessary middle step that has been inserted--fallaciously--for one purpose and one purpose only, equivocation. Why? What does that get you?

I've asked you this in several of these pointless semantics threads and you never answer, you just keep insisting that your category errors aren't category errors and lather, rinse, repeat ad nauseam.

So, once again, let's cut to the chase. An objective brain generates an objective "mind" which generates a subjective "mind." So the fuck what? It doesn't make any such "thing" in any way externally accessible in the same way that a brain is externally accessible.

What does it gain us to add in the unnecessary, equivocal redundancy of an "objective mind"?

 

[untermensche]

Category error. You are simply redefining "pain."

Absolute nonsense!

Pain is a subjective response to stimuli.

Phantom pain is not caused by any present noxious stimuli.

The limb is gone. The foot is gone.

But the mind still experiences pain in the third toe.

Pain is a subjective response to stimuli.

The horribly wounded soldier in the heat of battle who's mind feels nothing.

Pain is a subjective response to stimuli.

The same injury makes one person break into tears unable to move and another person bears it without much bother.

Pain is a subjective response to stimuli.

I worked for 25 years as a physical therapist before becoming a pharmacist.

If you treat pain you had better understand that pain is a subjective response to a stimuli.

That is the very first thing my professors said about pain.

If you actually have to help people you are not allowed to just believe whatever you want.

That's identical to saying "some behavior of the water creates the river.

No it is not.

The behavior of all the water creates the river.

The mind is created by some sub-activity of the total brain activity.

All of the activity in the brain is not creating the mind. The brain is doing more than creating a mind. Some of the activity MUST be doing something else besides creating a mind and not involved in the production of a mind.

The mind does not create dreams. Some productive activity is going on along side the specific productive activity creating a mind.

The mind (objective mind) is a specific and extremely complicated yet stable sub-activity of the entirety of brain activities.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

The mind (objective mind) is a specific and extremely complicated yet stable sub-activity of the entirety of brain activities.

Once again, we will simply grant this is the case. So what? All you have established, once again and ultimately, is that an objective brain generates a subjective mind. And...?

 

[untermensche]

The mind (objective mind) is a specific and extremely complicated yet stable sub-activity of the entirety of brain activities.

Once again, we will simply grant this is the case. So what? All you have established, once again and ultimately, is that an objective brain generates a subjective mind. And...?

I have established that looking at the entirety of brain activity without any knowledge of the specific activity creating the mind cannot tell you how the mind is connected to the brain.

 

[DBT]

So you claim with your autonomous mind.

If your mind isn't autonomous your words have no importance nor can we ever know if they are true.

If we are not autonomous minds we cannot know if anything is true.

We are adrift on some great ocean moving randomly and meaninglessly.

That's still an assertion.

It is not an explanation of autonomous mind.

It is not an argument for autonomous mind.

It is not evidence for autonomy of mind.

It is assertion. You assert your belief.

 

[untermensche]

So you claim with your autonomous mind.

If your mind isn't autonomous your words have no importance nor can we ever know if they are true.

If we are not autonomous minds we cannot know if anything is true.

We are adrift on some great ocean moving randomly and meaninglessly.

That's still an assertion.

It is not an explanation of autonomous mind.

It is not an argument for autonomous mind.

It is not evidence for autonomy of mind.

It is assertion. You assert your belief.

It is evidence of an autonomous mind.

My words are evidence of an autonomous mind.

There is no reason to think otherwise.

And thinking otherwise requires the power to direct the mind towards an end, it requires autonomy of mind in other words.

There is no rational way to escape autonomy.

If you are choosing from infinite possible claims a specific claim.

If you say what you say because you believe it then you are acting autonomously. You are autonomously bending your words to ideas chosen based on your beliefs not based on some kind of brain mechanics.

 

[fromderinside]

So you claim with your autonomous mind.

If your mind isn't autonomous your words have no importance nor can we ever know if they are true.

If we are not autonomous minds we cannot know if anything is true.

We are adrift on some great ocean moving randomly and meaninglessly.

That's still an assertion.

It is not an explanation of autonomous mind.

It is not an argument for autonomous mind.

It is not evidence for autonomy of mind.

It is assertion. You assert your belief.

It is evidence of an autonomous mind.

My words are evidence of an autonomous mind.

There is no reason to think otherwise.

And thinking otherwise requires the power to direct the mind towards an end, it requires autonomy of mind in other words.

There is no rational way to escape autonomy.

If you are choosing from infinite possible claims a specific claim.

If you say what you say because you believe it then you are acting autonomously. You are autonomously bending your words to ideas chosen based on your beliefs not based on some kind of brain mechanics.

BS wrapped up as reason is still BS.

No argument.

No evidence.

Just opinion.

Opinion and a glass of water produces the physical result of a glass of water. So Opinion is not evidence clearly.

 

[untermensche]

BS wrapped up as reason is still BS.

Opinion.

No argument.

Lie

No evidence.

The evidence of subjective experience is the most supreme evidence. To the subject. And there is only subjective evidence. All so-called evidence are things appreciated by a mind.

Just opinion.

Opinion based on clear evidence and reason.

There are theoretically infinite things a person could believe. Or they could believe nothing.

But to not believe everything is a choice based on experiences and to believe something is also a choice based on experiences.

We are in a constant state of belief or disbelief of things based on choices.

If you are saying your brain makes all the choices mechanically and your experience of having to command your hands to type your words is a delusion then there is no reason to listen to anything you say.

That you go to the trouble to type out words shows you care. YOU care. Not some organ of tissue. YOU are not comprised of tissue.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

The mind (objective mind) is a specific and extremely complicated yet stable sub-activity of the entirety of brain activities.

Once again, we will simply grant this is the case. So what? All you have established, once again and ultimately, is that an objective brain generates a subjective mind. And...?

I have established that looking at the entirety of brain activity without any knowledge of the specific activity creating the mind cannot tell you how the mind is connected to the brain.

Iow, you haven’t established anything other than status quo in regard to our understanding of how the brain generates what we call “mind.” Great. So this was all utterly pointless.

 

[untermensche]

I have established that looking at the entirety of brain activity without any knowledge of the specific activity creating the mind cannot tell you how the mind is connected to the brain.

Iow, you haven’t established anything other than status quo in regard to our understanding of how the brain generates what we call “mind.” Great. So this was all utterly pointless.

The fact that it is a fraction of the brain activities creating a mind is a new concept to you.

If learning new things is pointless to you then you have idiosyncratic understandings.

 

[DBT]

It is evidence of an autonomous mind.

My words are evidence of an autonomous mind.

There is no reason to think otherwise.

And thinking otherwise requires the power to direct the mind towards an end, it requires autonomy of mind in other words.

There is no rational way to escape autonomy.

If you are choosing from infinite possible claims a specific claim.

If you say what you say because you believe it then you are acting autonomously. You are autonomously bending your words to ideas chosen based on your beliefs not based on some kind of brain mechanics.

BS wrapped up as reason is still BS.

No argument.

No evidence.

Just opinion.

Opinion and a glass of water produces the physical result of a glass of water. So Opinion is not evidence clearly.

I don't think that Mr Untermesche understands the difference between assertion and evidence.

 

[untermensche]

I don't think you have the slightest clue what the objective mind is.

But with your autonomous subjective mind you willfully pretend you do.

 

[DBT]

I don't think you have the slightest clue what the objective mind is.

But with your autonomous subjective mind you willfully pretend you do.

Your use of the term ''objective mind'' is bogus. Mind is subjective. The neural networks of a brain and its electrochemical activity is objective.


''When a single neuron fires, it is an isolated chemical blip. When many fire together, they form a thought. How the brain bridges the gap between these two tiers of neural activity remains a great mystery, but a new kind of technology is edging us closer to solving it.

The glowing splash of cyan in the photo above comes from a type of biosensor that can detect the release of very small amounts of neurotransmitters, the signaling molecules that brain cells use to communicate. These sensors, called CNiFERs (pronounced “sniffers”), for cell-based neurotransmitter fluorescent engineered reporters, are enabling scientists to examine the brain in action and up close.

This newfound ability, developed as part of the White House BRAIN Initiative, could further our understanding of how brain function arises from the complex interplay of individual neurons, including how complex behaviors like addiction develop. Neuroscientist Paul Slesinger at Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, one of the senior researchers who spearheaded this research, presented the sensors Monday at the American Chemical Society’s 252nd National Meeting & Exposition.''

 

[untermensche]

I don't think you have the slightest clue what the objective mind is.

But with your autonomous subjective mind you willfully pretend you do.

Your use of the term ''objective mind'' is bogus. Mind is subjective.

So you think there is a subjective mind with no physical correlate?

Is the subjective mind with no objective cause a miracle?

You claim that the objective mind (the specific activity creating a subjective mind) is bogus is total nonsense.

 

[DBT]

I don't think you have the slightest clue what the objective mind is.

But with your autonomous subjective mind you willfully pretend you do.

Your use of the term ''objective mind'' is bogus. Mind is subjective.

So you think there is a subjective mind with no physical correlate?

No, don't be silly, that is your claim.

You are the one claiming autonomy of mind, not me.

Please, you need to understand the implications of your claim.