The objective mind

[untermensche]

The autonomy or lack of autonomy has nothing to do with the term. The objective mind exists whether the mind is autonomous or a worthless slave.

I am beginning to think you are just some totally ignorant sheep-like creature.

You can't seem to understand the simplest things unless your masters spoon feed it to you.

You have no ability to make independent judgements.

Perhaps in you the mind is not autonomous.

In me it is. I say what I freely choose to say.

I move my arm at will.

 

[DBT]

The autonomy or lack of autonomy has nothing to do with the term. The objective mind exists whether the mind is autonomous or a worthless slave.

Mind is a subjective experience. Brain and brain activity is objective. Your ''objective mind' phrase is bogus.

I am beginning to think you are just some totally ignorant sheep-like creature.

Perhaps the regulars on this forum, me included, have been wondering the same thing about you?

You can't seem to understand the simplest things unless your masters spoon feed it to you.

It's not any sort of 'master' you should be worried about. It is your own blindness toward your own contradictions and absurdities, ignoring research and evidence while asserting unfounded claims...all the things that you should be opening your eyes to, but apparently unable to.

You have no ability to make independent judgements.

I consider the available research, evidence and analysis, you on the other hand cling to ideas that were discredited long ago, your conscious homunculus, the smart Captain of a dumb brain

I move my arm at will.

Only because the brain is performing that function.

 

[untermensche]

The autonomy or lack of autonomy has nothing to do with the term. The objective mind exists whether the mind is autonomous or a worthless slave.

Mind is a subjective experience. Brain and brain activity is objective. Your ''objective mind' phrase is bogus.

The mind is that which has experiences, that which can experience.

The mind is also that which commands the brain to move the arm.

The brain is objective.

Brain activity is objective.

The specific activity that creates a mind is objective. This activity is completely unknown.

And the specific activity that results in a subjective mind is the objective mind.

To say the idea is bogus is to say there is no objective activity that results in a subjective mind.

It is to say the subjective mind exists by magic.

It is absolute nonsense.

You are bogus.

 

[DBT]

A nearly complete list of your claims and assertions.

No explanations as to how your claims and assertions are possible.

No references to research.

No evidence.

No valid case to argue.

Sorry, please try again.

 

[untermensche]

A nearly complete list of your claims and assertions.

No explanations as to how your claims and assertions are possible.

No references to research.

No evidence.

No valid case to argue.

Sorry, please try again.

So the subjective mind does not arise by objective activity but by magic?

 

[DBT]

A nearly complete list of your claims and assertions.

No explanations as to how your claims and assertions are possible.

No references to research.

No evidence.

No valid case to argue.

Sorry, please try again.

So the subjective mind does not arise by objective activity but by magic?

Try again. Your bias is distorting what you read.

 

[untermensche]

A nearly complete list of your claims and assertions.

No explanations as to how your claims and assertions are possible.

No references to research.

No evidence.

No valid case to argue.

Sorry, please try again.

So the subjective mind does not arise by objective activity but by magic?

Try again. Your bias is distorting what you read.

It's a question.

A question you are dodging with a bunch of insane comments implying that you know something about this topic.

You show diagrams that are supposed to explain something that are completely devoid of the mind.

It is pure ignorance masking as knowledge.

Emperor's New Clothes bullshit.

If the mind is completely missing from the picture you have not explained anything.

The reason you can't seem to comprehend a simple concept like the "objective mind" is because you do not know how to think. You have never had to think, just regurgitate bullshit pretending to be knowledge.

You are not a thinker on this topic. Just somebody who can't see that to explain the workings of the mind you have to know what it is.

 

[Speakpigeon]

I experience the arm moving. I can see and feel the movement.

And I KNOW there is no experience of the arm moving as I desire it to move until I do something with my mind. It doesn't happen without me doing something.

I know I am doing something, willing something because I am doing it not just experiencing it.

Just like I know I am forcing the experience of my hands to type these words.

That's logically inconsistent. You don't know you're willing something. You just experience the will to do something. You don't know there's an actual will just as you don't know there's an arm. All you know is the impression you want to move your arm. It's nothing but an impression. Your subjective experience is nothing but a spectacle of impressions. Your claim that you possess will is vacuous."Will" here is a metaphysical construct.

Is that enough of a comment about content?

Let's see what what you do with it.
EB

Of course you know when you are willing something.

You just don't what exactly you are doing. It is something in the mind but not something the mind can "see".

But you know you are doing something with your mind before the arm moves.

You know you are doing something beyond doubt.

You know you are not doing nothing and then experiencing the arm move.

You know this beyond doubt.

Your assertion that I "know this beyond doubt" has just been disproved categorically.

I checked with myself and, no, I don't know that it is my mind and not my brain that's doing the willing.

You've done badly again.
EB

 

[untermensche]

Of course you know when you are willing something.

You just don't what exactly you are doing. It is something in the mind but not something the mind can "see".

But you know you are doing something with your mind before the arm moves.

You know you are doing something beyond doubt.

You know you are not doing nothing and then experiencing the arm move.

You know this beyond doubt.

Your assertion that I "know this beyond doubt" has just been disproved categorically.

I checked with myself and, no, I don't know that it is my mind and not my brain that's doing the willing.

You've done badly again.
EB

If you know that you checked you proved you know when your mind is doing something.

And you know you are not a brain.

A brain is made of cells and can be held.

You are not made of cells and cannot be held.

 

[DBT]

Try again. Your bias is distorting what you read.

It's a question.

A question you are dodging with a bunch of insane comments implying that you know something about this topic.

You show diagrams that are supposed to explain something that are completely devoid of the mind.

It is pure ignorance masking as knowledge.

Emperor's New Clothes bullshit.

If the mind is completely missing from the picture you have not explained anything.

The reason you can't seem to comprehend a simple concept like the "objective mind" is because you do not know how to think. You have never had to think, just regurgitate bullshit pretending to be knowledge.

You are not a thinker on this topic. Just somebody who can't see that to explain the workings of the mind you have to know what it is.

Sour grapes.

You are doing badly at this.

You are doing badly at this because it is glaringly obvious that you are ignoring the means and mechanisms of your conscious experience and using that ignorance to assert your beliefs, that it is your conscious experience that is the Captain of the brain, that conscious mind has the autonomy from the brain and the ability to run the brain according to its autonomous will.

To achieve this astonishing level of ignorance, you turn a blind eye to all research, experiments, evidence and analysis by researchers.....because, well, you know better, after all, while the researchers of the World are on the wrong track and know nothing, you base your beliefs on the ability to lift your arm.

 

[untermensche]

Try again. Your bias is distorting what you read.

It's a question.

A question you are dodging with a bunch of insane comments implying that you know something about this topic.

You show diagrams that are supposed to explain something that are completely devoid of the mind.

It is pure ignorance masking as knowledge.

Emperor's New Clothes bullshit.

If the mind is completely missing from the picture you have not explained anything.

The reason you can't seem to comprehend a simple concept like the "objective mind" is because you do not know how to think. You have never had to think, just regurgitate bullshit pretending to be knowledge.

You are not a thinker on this topic. Just somebody who can't see that to explain the workings of the mind you have to know what it is.

Sour grapes.

You are doing badly at this.

You are doing badly at this because it is glaringly obvious that you are ignoring the means and mechanisms of your conscious experience and using that ignorance to assert your beliefs, that it is your conscious experience that is the Captain of the brain, that conscious mind has the autonomy from the brain and the ability to run the brain according to its autonomous will.

To achieve this astonishing level of ignorance, you turn a blind eye to all research, experiments, evidence and analysis by researchers.....because, well, you know better, after all, while the researchers of the World are on the wrong track and know nothing, you base your beliefs on the ability to lift your arm.

You deny the subjective mind has an objective cause (the objective mind).

You think the subjective mind exists by magic.

And think I'm doing badly.

 

[DBT]

''You deny the subjective mind has an objective cause (the objective mind)

Your wording is skewed in favour of your own unfounded beliefs. The subjective experience of mind does have an objective cause. that being the physical brain and its physical electrochemical mind generating activity.

Try to do better.

 

[untermensche]

''You deny the subjective mind has an objective cause (the objective mind)

Your wording is skewed in favour of your own unfounded beliefs. The subjective experience of mind does have an objective cause. that being the physical brain and its physical electrochemical mind generating activity.

Try to do better.

There are no known electrical or chemical mind generating activities.

The brain is the cause of some activity.

The activity is the cause of the subjective mind.

The activity is called the "objective mind".

I suppose if you deny it has to exist forever you will never have to admit you don't have the slightest clue what it is.

You will never have to admit you present diagrams allegedly talking about the mind without even any understanding of where and how the mind fits in.

 

[DBT]

''You deny the subjective mind has an objective cause (the objective mind)

Your wording is skewed in favour of your own unfounded beliefs. The subjective experience of mind does have an objective cause. that being the physical brain and its physical electrochemical mind generating activity.

Try to do better.

There are no known electrical or chemical mind generating activities.

The brain is the cause of some activity.

The activity is the cause of the subjective mind.

The activity is called the "objective mind".

I suppose if you deny it has to exist forever you will never have to admit you don't have the slightest clue what it is.

You will never have to admit you present diagrams allegedly talking about the mind without even any understanding of where and how the mind fits in.

You know all of this.....how?

Do you have research to back your claims? Case studies? Evidence?

If so, please share.

 

[Speakpigeon]

Of course you know when you are willing something.

You just don't what exactly you are doing. It is something in the mind but not something the mind can "see".

But you know you are doing something with your mind before the arm moves.

You know you are doing something beyond doubt.

You know you are not doing nothing and then experiencing the arm move.

You know this beyond doubt.

Your assertion that I "know this beyond doubt" has just been disproved categorically.

I checked with myself and, no, I don't know that it is my mind and not my brain that's doing the willing.

You've done badly again.
EB

If you know that you checked you proved you know when your mind is doing something.

I know that the checking takes place. I don't know what wills or does the checking.

I know the impression of red I experience when I experience it, not what produces the impression.

I know the impression when I have it that I'm willing my arm to move, but I don't know what produces the impression.
EB

 

[untermensche]

I know that the checking takes place.

It takes place when you command it to take place.

Not on it's own.

 

[untermensche]

There are no known electrical or chemical mind generating activities.

The brain is the cause of some activity.

The activity is the cause of the subjective mind.

The activity is called the "objective mind".

I suppose if you deny it has to exist forever you will never have to admit you don't have the slightest clue what it is.

You will never have to admit you present diagrams allegedly talking about the mind without even any understanding of where and how the mind fits in.

You know all of this.....how?

Do you have research to back your claims? Case studies? Evidence?

If so, please share.

How do I know there are no known chemical or electrical effect that results in a mind?

Prove me wrong.

Feel free to use any research you want.

Every study looking at the mind uses nothing but subjective reports as the evidence of the mind. None have an understanding of how the mind is formed.

Every study admits people can freely make reports of what they experience.

Autonomy of mind is a given in any study that looks at the mind.

 

[Speakpigeon]

I know that the checking takes place.

It takes place when you command it to take place.

I checked with myself and, no, I don't know that it is my mind and not my brain "commanding" the checking to take place (or rather, willing the checking, in good English).

Shall we go another round?
EB

 

[untermensche]

I know that the checking takes place.

It takes place when you command it to take place.

I checked with myself and, no, I don't know that it is my mind and not my brain "commanding" the checking to take place (or rather, willing the checking, in good English).

Shall we go another round?
EB

I know for certain it is me not something else commanding the arm to move.

And I am not a brain.

Brains are objects in the world. I am not.

That is certain.

 

[DBT]

There are no known electrical or chemical mind generating activities.

The brain is the cause of some activity.

The activity is the cause of the subjective mind.

The activity is called the "objective mind".

I suppose if you deny it has to exist forever you will never have to admit you don't have the slightest clue what it is.

You will never have to admit you present diagrams allegedly talking about the mind without even any understanding of where and how the mind fits in.

You know all of this.....how?

Do you have research to back your claims? Case studies? Evidence?

If so, please share.

How do I know there are no known chemical or electrical effect that results in a mind?

Prove me wrong.

Feel free to use any research you want.

Every study looking at the mind uses nothing but subjective reports as the evidence of the mind. None have an understanding of how the mind is formed.

Every study admits people can freely make reports of what they experience.

Autonomy of mind is a given in any study that looks at the mind.

So, where is the evidence? Where is the research, case studies and analysis to back your claims?

All I can see is you avoiding the issue of justification, forever protesting while repeating your claims.

Evidence please.