The objective mind

[untermensche]

The mind is not activity. It is something that arises out of activity.

You don't know that either, like most of what you claim you know.

It takes the ability to reason.

Activity can be seen. It can be examined.

The subjective mind cannot.

They cannot possibly be the same thing.

It is a rational assumption based on faith in experience that some activity in the brain gives rise to the mind.

You don't know that the mind commands the brain. You're talking out of your arse.

It is a reasonable assumption based on experience.

I experience commanding the arm to move.

The only way to do this is to command the brain to move it.

If the arm and the brain are really there. This is something that is always understood if not said.

 

[DBT]

Then the experience of doing something with your mind to move the arm cannot be doubted.

Yet you persist in ignoring the underlying mechanisms and means of your conscious experience....which by the token of being the underlying mechanisms, you cannot experience, hence you deny altogether. You do that even while dismissing all research and evidence on motor function and conscious report.

You do not understand the underlying mechanisms.

You do not know where the command comes from. You do not know what the mind is.

The mind is not activity. It is something that arises out of activity.

Talking only about activity and thinking you have some understanding of the mind is absolute ignorance.

You understand a little of how the reflexive brain responds to the command from the active autonomous contemplative mind to move the arm.

But you have no clue how the mind commands the brain to do it.

You are babbling. Your babbling has no relationship to actual research, case studies, evidence or analysis by researchers. You imagine that you know better than researchers in the field, who say one thing while you say the opposite, implying that you know something that you claim is not understood by anyone, yet you yourself make the claims regardless, never seeing the irony or the absurdity of your position.

It's just sad. You should stick to a subject where you do have something to say; social justice issues.

 

[untermensche]

You do not understand the underlying mechanisms.

You do not know where the command comes from. You do not know what the mind is.

The mind is not activity. It is something that arises out of activity.

Talking only about activity and thinking you have some understanding of the mind is absolute ignorance.

You understand a little of how the reflexive brain responds to the command from the active autonomous contemplative mind to move the arm.

But you have no clue how the mind commands the brain to do it.

You are babbling.

That you think this proves you have no business here.

It is beyond you.

You have no ability to think on your own.

All you can do is regurgitate conclusions you don't understand.

 

[DBT]

Something is certainly beyond someone on this forum, but it doesn't happen to be who you think.....

 

[untermensche]

I understand that the subjective mind is known very well by anyone who has one.

And it must arise in some way.

The way it arises is the objective mind.

And nobody has the slightest clue what that is.

But this is all dissonance to those with the proper "education".

 

[Speakpigeon]

It takes the ability to reason.

Activity can be seen. It can be examined.

The subjective mind cannot.

They cannot possibly be the same thing.

It is a rational assumption based on faith in experience that some activity in the brain gives rise to the mind.

You don't know that the mind commands the brain. You're talking out of your arse.

It is a reasonable assumption based on experience.

I experience commanding the arm to move.

The only way to do this is to command the brain to move it.

If the arm and the brain are really there. This is something that is always understood if not said.

You're the ever perfect Pope. The Pope condemned the work of Copernicus even though his theory was perfectly logical. People were adamant that they view that the Sun turned around the Earth was the only possibility just because it was based on experience. Daily repeated experience, shared by all sensible people. Right.

Do go on. Repeating yourself is the only thing you know.
EB

 

[untermensche]

I am Copernicus.

You are the ignorant Pope talking about your religion.

The most stupid religion ever invented.

The religion created by a free mind that says no such thing is possible.

If you are not a mind freely expressing freely chosen ideas then nothing you say could ever have any importance.

 

[Speakpigeon]

You're not making sense. Stop making a fool of yourself. This is gross indecency.
EB

 

[untermensche]

You're not making sense. Stop making a fool of yourself. This is gross indecency.
EB

You have problems with simple things.

It is not the language.

It is cognitive dissonance.

Again:

If you are not a mind freely expressing freely chosen ideas then nothing you say could ever have any importance.

It also means you have no clue or no control over what you say.

The freedom to express the ideas you freely choose is essential to have meaningful discourse.

 

[DBT]

I understand that the subjective mind is known very well by anyone who has one.

And it must arise in some way.

The way it arises is the objective mind.

And nobody has the slightest clue what that is.

But this is all dissonance to those with the proper "education".

You say that ''nobody has the slightest clue what that is'' yet that doesn't appear to stop you, yourself from offering your own assumed knowledge about autonomy of mind - a ''smart autonomous mind operating a dumb brain'' as you have put it.

Can you not see the irony of your untenable position?

 

[untermensche]

I understand that the subjective mind is known very well by anyone who has one.

And it must arise in some way.

The way it arises is the objective mind.

And nobody has the slightest clue what that is.

But this is all dissonance to those with the proper "education".

You say that ''nobody has the slightest clue what that is'' yet that doesn't appear to stop you, yourself from offering your own assumed knowledge about autonomy of mind - a ''smart autonomous mind operating a dumb brain'' as you have put it.

Can you not see the irony of your untenable position?

If our minds do not have autonomy there is no purpose to discuss anything.

Behind philosophy and science is the assumption that we can freely come to conclusions.

If our philosophical conclusions are not freely made then they are all worthless.

The proof of the mind's autonomy is in saying "no".

Decide "no" right now and don't eat breakfast tomorrow.

For an autonomous mind it is possible.

For a mind without control it is not likely.

Do you honestly believe that you are being forced somehow to have the ideas you have?

Or did you freely choose them because you think they are true?

 

[DBT]

I understand that the subjective mind is known very well by anyone who has one.

And it must arise in some way.

The way it arises is the objective mind.

And nobody has the slightest clue what that is.

But this is all dissonance to those with the proper "education".

You say that ''nobody has the slightest clue what that is'' yet that doesn't appear to stop you, yourself from offering your own assumed knowledge about autonomy of mind - a ''smart autonomous mind operating a dumb brain'' as you have put it.

Can you not see the irony of your untenable position?

If our minds do not have autonomy there is no purpose to discuss anything.

Behind philosophy and science is the assumption that we can freely come to conclusions.

If our philosophical conclusions are not freely made then they are all worthless.

The proof of the mind's autonomy is in saying "no".

Decide "no" right now and don't eat breakfast tomorrow.

For an autonomous mind it is possible.

For a mind without control it is not likely.

Do you honestly believe that you are being forced somehow to have the ideas you have?

Or did you freely choose them because you think they are true?

You haven't explained anything.

You have just re-stated your list of beliefs in the form of assertions.

You have reaffirmed your beliefs.

 

[untermensche]

If our minds do not have autonomy there is no purpose to discuss anything.

Behind philosophy and science is the assumption that we can freely come to conclusions.

If our philosophical conclusions are not freely made then they are all worthless.

The proof of the mind's autonomy is in saying "no".

Decide "no" right now and don't eat breakfast tomorrow.

For an autonomous mind it is possible.

For a mind without control it is not likely.

Do you honestly believe that you are being forced somehow to have the ideas you have?

Or did you freely choose them because you think they are true?

You haven't explained anything.

You have just re-stated your list of beliefs in the form of assertions.

You have reaffirmed your beliefs.

These are questions for you to answer if you want the conversation to go on.

Refusal to answer them is saying you have finished defending your position and can defend it no further.

 

[Speakpigeon]

You're not making sense. Stop making a fool of yourself. This is gross indecency.
EB

You have problems with simple things.

It is not the language.

It is cognitive dissonance.

Again:

If you are not a mind freely expressing freely chosen ideas then nothing you say could ever have any importance.

It also means you have no clue or no control over what you say.

The freedom to express the ideas you freely choose is essential to have meaningful discourse.

The question isn't how you would feel about the situation but whatever the situation actually is. You are your brain. Your sense of being free of your actions is in effect your brain somehow having this sense of being free. Why should it feel bad about understanding this feeling is his own?

I makes no difference whatsoever. We believe what we believe. Your brain somehow wants to believe it is free-floating outside nature. Mine doesn't care either way because it would make no difference.

You're lost in a nonsensical metaphysics.

You prefer to believe the falsehood you like rather than the truth. That's the free choice your brain makes.
EB

 

[untermensche]

You are your brain.

You have no clue what I am.

I do have a brain.

And I can command it to move my arm.

You can too.

Try it.

 

[DBT]

If our minds do not have autonomy there is no purpose to discuss anything.

Behind philosophy and science is the assumption that we can freely come to conclusions.

If our philosophical conclusions are not freely made then they are all worthless.

The proof of the mind's autonomy is in saying "no".

Decide "no" right now and don't eat breakfast tomorrow.

For an autonomous mind it is possible.

For a mind without control it is not likely.

Do you honestly believe that you are being forced somehow to have the ideas you have?

Or did you freely choose them because you think they are true?

You haven't explained anything.

You have just re-stated your list of beliefs in the form of assertions.

You have reaffirmed your beliefs.

These are questions for you to answer if you want the conversation to go on.

Refusal to answer them is saying you have finished defending your position and can defend it no further.

I am not the one making your set of claims. That's you.

You are making claims. Claims that you have been repeatedly asked to justify with evidence, case studies, experiments, analysis, etc.....but so far all you have done is repeat your claims.

- - - Updated - - -

You are your brain.

You have no clue what I am.

I do have a brain.

And I can command it to move my arm.

You can too.

Try it.

Now, that's just being silly.

 

[untermensche]

Calling the ability to move the arm at will "silly" when you don't understand the phenomena is ignorance.

Avoiding all questions is ignorance.

You have nothing to say in this thread.

You do not have the slightest clue what the objective mind is and can't discuss anything about it.

You think the subjective mind arises without some specific objective activity creating it, "The objective mind"

You believe in magic.

 

[Speakpigeon]

You are your brain.

You have no clue what I am.

You have no clue what you are.

And your English is so depleted in semantic you can't make sense of what people tell you.

I do have a brain.

No, you don't.

And I can command it to move my arm.

Like my own brain, your brain believes it can control its arm. But we have different brains. Yours thinks it is a mind. Like a piggy believing he's a ballet dancer.

You can too.

Try it.

I tried all day and it doesn't work. Are you doing something to prevent me?
EB

- - - Updated - - -

Calling the ability to move the arm at will "silly" when you don't understand the phenomena is ignorance.

Avoiding all questions is ignorance.

You have nothing to say in this thread.

You do not have the slightest clue what the objective mind is and can't discuss anything about it.

You think the subjective mind arises without some specific objective activity creating it, "The objective mind"

You believe in magic.

Appalling non-sequitur.
EB

 

[untermensche]

Worthless shit!

Absolutely worthless shit!

As bad as calling an infinite series a set and thinking you have changed something about the series.

Stupidity.

If you can't voluntarily move your hand how exactly do you type the absolute worthless shit you write?

 

[DBT]

Calling the ability to move the arm at will "silly" when you don't understand the phenomena is ignorance.

Avoiding all questions is ignorance.

You have nothing to say in this thread.

You do not have the slightest clue what the objective mind is and can't discuss anything about it.

You think the subjective mind arises without some specific objective activity creating it, "The objective mind"

You believe in magic.

Your claims are flawed.

Nobody denies that we have the ability to move our limbs at will.

The issue here being the mechanisms and means by which this ability is enabled.

This has been explained to you numerous times, case studies, experiments and evidence given, yet you continue to misrepresent what I say, continue to ignore the research and continue to repeat unfounded claims; autonomy of mind, a smart mind operating a dumb brain.