"The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion"

[RVonse]

Preventing unwanted pregnancies from the beginning is a great way to handling this, but it doesn't always work, for whatever reason.

That is what our society needs to work on.

You mean improve our society by forcing women to endure unwanted pregnancies?

No. I mean improve our society by forcing women to be accountable for their own actions. If they really want authority then they must also be responsible too.

Or if they do not want to be responsible than maybe they should again be treated like minors and children in all matters, like they were in the past.

 

[Toni]

Do you agree that
1) A normal man should be able to prevent impregnation in most circumstances

Yes I do. And that is saying something even more when you consider how many less contreception options there are for men then there are for women.

, and
2)if a man really doesn’t want to father a child, he already has control over his body?

It is biologically impossible to say this. But if it were possible for a man to impregnate himself to bear a child in his own body, I would agree that he has complete control over whether he can get pregnant or not.

He’s in real good control over whether or not he engages in recreational sex, uses a condom correctly 100% of the time or has a vasectomy. Oh, and rape. He is in control over whether or not he rapes someone.

 

[laughing dog]

Do you agree that
1) A normal man should be able to prevent impregnation in most circumstances

Yes I do. And that is saying something even more when you consider how many less contreception options there are for men then there are for women.

, and
2)if a man really doesn’t want to father a child, he already has control over his body?

It is biologically impossible to say this. But if it were possible for a man to impregnate himself to bear a child in his own body, I would agree that he has complete control over whether he can get pregnant or not.

If a man realky diesn’t want to father a child, he simply remains celibate. It us mit biologically impossible.

 

[Toni]

You mean improve our society by forcing women to endure unwanted pregnancies?

No. I mean improve our society by forcing women to be accountable for their own actions. If they really want authority then they must also be responsible too.

Or if they do not want to be responsible than maybe they should again be treated like minors and children in all matters, like they were in the past.

How are women not being held responsible for their own actions?? And the actions of the men who impregnate them????? Women bear the entire risk of pregnancy, childbirth and abortion and also the entire risk associated with whatever birth control they use.

Men might have a latex allergy which is significant but there are other types of condoms.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You mean improve our society by forcing women to endure unwanted pregnancies?

No. I mean improve our society by forcing women to be accountable for their own actions. If they really want authority then they must also be responsible too.

Or if they do not want to be responsible than maybe they should again be treated like minors and children in all matters, like they were in the past.

Yes, you want to force women to endure unwanted pregnancies. Please own in, don't spin it. You think that'll make America great again.

 

[RVonse]

Trust me: women and girls get pregnant when they really don't want to. All. The. Time.

If the statistical odds given by my link to planned parenthood are to believed, there are many more accidents then there should be.

Certainly, there are more accidental pregnancies than there should be. Some people don't make the best choices sometimes. Of course, other people have been using contraception and they have that one time it doesn't work.

And really, your post is being disingenuous, as there is likely no viable 'accidental' pregnancy threshold you'd allow an abortion. You are just using the accidental pregnancy thing to blame women for getting pregnant and want to make having to have a child their punishment. A lot easier to force people to do something when you make them the heel.

The only punishment I'm advocating is that they be responsible for their own actions including their sexual relations.

And if it comes to an abortion that means answering the hard questions of why it takes place so often. If everyone consistently survives a 20 floor fall every time then the odds of doing this should be higher than we think.

 

[prideandfall]

I do have a problem with abortion being used as birth control because of irresponsible adults.

explain to me how abortion is not a responsible adult way to deal with an unwanted pregnancy.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Certainly, there are more accidental pregnancies than there should be. Some people don't make the best choices sometimes. Of course, other people have been using contraception and they have that one time it doesn't work.

And really, your post is being disingenuous, as there is likely no viable 'accidental' pregnancy threshold you'd allow an abortion. You are just using the accidental pregnancy thing to blame women for getting pregnant and want to make having to have a child their punishment. A lot easier to force people to do something when you make them the heel.

The only punishment I'm advocating is that they be responsible for their own actions including their sexual relations.

And if it comes to an abortion that means answering the hard questions of why it takes place so often. If everyone consistently survives a 20 floor fall every time then the odds of doing this should be higher than we think.

This is just disingenuous goalpost shifting.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I do have a problem with abortion being used as birth control because of irresponsible adults.

explain to me how abortion is not a responsible adult way to deal with an unwanted pregnancy.

The argument is that there are women that use abortion as their generalized form of birth control. So RVonse, at the moment is tilting at windmills. Until they shift the goalposts again to generalized bans on abortion.

 

[prideandfall]

The argument is that there are women that use abortion as their generalized form of birth control.

i'm aware of this. i'm asking for an explanation for why this is bad.

 

[RVonse]

I do have a problem with abortion being used as birth control because of irresponsible adults.

explain to me how abortion is not a responsible adult way to deal with an unwanted pregnancy.

It IS a very responsible way to deal with an unwanted birth. But a very irresponsible, inefficient, and unecessary way to deal with an unwanted egg/sperm conception. Wasting valuable medical resources while being morally repulsive to many members of society.

 

[laughing dog]

I do have a problem with abortion being used as birth control because of irresponsible adults.

explain to me how abortion is not a responsible adult way to deal with an unwanted pregnancy.

It IS a very responsible way to deal with an unwanted birth. But a very irresponsible, inefficient, and unecessary way to deal with an unwanted egg/sperm conception. Wasting valuable medical resources while being morally repulsive to some members of society.

Forcing an unwanted pregnancy to term is also wasting valuable medical resources while being morally repulsive to some members of society as well.

 

[prideandfall]

It IS a very responsible way to deal with an unwanted birth. But a very irresponsible, inefficient, and unecessary way to deal with an unwanted egg/sperm conception. Wasting valuable medical resources while being morally repulsive to some members of society.

well the former is a foundational cornerstone of capitalism so i don't see how that's a problem, and the latter is completely and utterly irrelevant in every conceivable way.

so ok, it's inefficient i suppose i'll go along with that for the sake of argument although relative to the amount of inefficiency in every other aspect of american life i don't see how it's an issue. but, how is it irresponsible?
person A wants an abortion. person B provides them an abortion. seems both responsible and, quite frankly, pretty efficient in opposition to your claim.

 

[RVonse]

Certainly, there are more accidental pregnancies than there should be. Some people don't make the best choices sometimes. Of course, other people have been using contraception and they have that one time it doesn't work.

And really, your post is being disingenuous, as there is likely no viable 'accidental' pregnancy threshold you'd allow an abortion. You are just using the accidental pregnancy thing to blame women for getting pregnant and want to make having to have a child their punishment. A lot easier to force people to do something when you make them the heel.

The only punishment I'm advocating is that they be responsible for their own actions including their sexual relations.

And if it comes to an abortion that means answering the hard questions of why it takes place so often. If everyone consistently survives a 20 floor fall every time then the odds of doing this should be higher than we think.

This is just disingenuous goalpost shifting.

Rather than worrying about my goalposts, then allow me ask you these questions. Should giving people in our society authority also come with responsibility? When we give cops the authority to put us in jail do we also not expect them to be responsible about how they go about do ithat?

If women have 100% of all the biological and legal authority to bear children, should that also not come with some kind of responsibility on their part?

 

[prideandfall]

If women have 100% of all the biological and legal authority to bear children, should that also not come with some kind of responsibility on their part?

you were quoting jimmy but i'll give my thoughts on this.

yes, it DOES come with responsibility: the responsibility to decide if they want to bear a child or not, and the responsibility to abort it if they decide at any point the answer is no.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If women have 100% of all the biological and legal authority to bear children, should that also not come with some kind of responsibility on their part?

FYI women are not asexual reproducers, so your question is a ridiculous hypothetical. Though to entertain the absurd, women are not certified to reproduce, nor are they given any legal authority as to who can and can't reproduce and when. Furthermore, women do not have any control over the fertilization of any egg, nor the process of releasing the egg, implanting on a wall, etc... Women are very close to completely uninvolved in the finer details of reproduction. The best they can do is have a male partner wear something (because the male likely won't get a procedure done to prevent impregnation just to have sex) and/or take a prescription that'll better regulate (though not dictate) their reproductive cycle. And those are not 100% safe.

The only completely safe way to avoid pregnancy is to limit sexual activity to oral sex.

 

[Angry Floof]

If women have 100% of all the biological and legal authority to bear children, should that also not come with some kind of responsibility on their part?

100% of pregnancies are caused by ejaculation.

 

[TomC]

Perhaps the realization that women are competent adults capable of making their own choices before choosing sex that results in pregnancy?

Maybe that's it? Women are competent adults, capable of both making their own choices and dealing with the results of their own choices? They're not victims of their progeny or the men who help create the progeny?

How about that? Women are free to choose their own sex lives. But also responsible for the choices that they make.
Tom

So you subscribe to the Scarlett O’Hara marriage compact? When she is done wanting children, no more sex for the husband, ever.


I dunno, guessing the Adult Men out there aren’t really in your corner on this…

This is the kind of ridiculous non sequitor response that makes it impossible to carry on a rational conversation with feticide rights advocates.

I don't believe any such thing. I never posted any such thing.
What I see is grasping at straws trying to create a strawman argument.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Perhaps the realization that women are competent adults capable of making their own choices before choosing sex that results in pregnancy?

Maybe that's it? Women are competent adults, capable of both making their own choices and dealing with the results of their own choices? They're not victims of their progeny or the men who help create the progeny?

How about that? Women are free to choose their own sex lives. But also responsible for the choices that they make.
Tom

So you subscribe to the Scarlett O’Hara marriage compact? When she is done wanting children, no more sex for the husband, ever.


I dunno, guessing the Adult Men out there aren’t really in your corner on this…

This is the kind of ridiculous non sequitor response that makes it impossible to carry on a rational conversation with feticide rights advocates.

I don't believe any such thing. I never posted any such thing.
What I see is grasping at straws trying to create a strawman argument.
Tom

How is it a non-sequitor. Your post reads, women get preggers, they make with the birthin', theiz be responsibilz. The only way to avoid it with certainty is no more penetrating sex.

Unless you mean something completely different when you say women will need to be "dealing with the results of their own choices" regarding sex.

 

[laughing dog]

Perhaps the realization that women are competent adults capable of making their own choices before choosing sex that results in pregnancy?

Maybe that's it? Women are competent adults, capable of both making their own choices and dealing with the results of their own choices? They're not victims of their progeny or the men who help create the progeny?

How about that? Women are free to choose their own sex lives. But also responsible for the choices that they make.
Tom

So you subscribe to the Scarlett O’Hara marriage compact? When she is done wanting children, no more sex for the husband, ever.


I dunno, guessing the Adult Men out there aren’t really in your corner on this…

This is the kind of ridiculous non sequitor response that makes it impossible to carry on a rational conversation with feticide rights advocates.

That is the kind of ridiculous non-sequitur response that makes it impossible to carry on a rational conversation with mandatory carry-to-term dictators.

I don't believe any such thing. I never posted any such thing.
What I see is grasping at straws trying to create a strawman argument.
Tom

Perhaps if you actually thought about the responses, you might see that a direct consequence of your "Women are free to choose their own sex lives. But also responsible for the choices that they make." is that married women who do not wish to have children should abstain from sex with their husband because that is the only way to avoid pregnancy.