The Planned Parenthood Videos Seem to be Getting a Fair Amount of Traction

[arkirk]

It could happen:

View attachment 3681

http://www.gallup.com/poll/170249/split-abortion-pro-choice-pro-life.aspx

What is the point of this? Does a woman have charge of her body or does Congress or perhaps Gallup? There will always be abortion until birth control is perfected. As for the fetal tissues, it is clear that it is a shame to waste such materials when there is so much research to be done. If PP made money on it, I am sure that money went back out in the form of services.

 

[RavenSky]

It could happen:

View attachment 3681

http://www.gallup.com/poll/170249/split-abortion-pro-choice-pro-life.aspx

What is the point of this? Does a woman have charge of her body or does Congress or perhaps Gallup? There will always be abortion until birth control is perfected. As for the fetal tissues, it is clear that it is a shame to waste such materials when there is so much research to be done. If PP made money on it, I am sure that money went back out in the form of services.

The law allows every source of fetal tissue - including PP, including Catholic hospitals - to be compensated for the additional expenses involved in preserving such tissue for the research facility.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So, here were are.

There is nothing wrong with a company taking out a life insurance policy on an employee, so they can get paid if the employee dies (to recoup the "cost" of a new hire), but if Planned Parenthood tries to recoup legitimate medical expenses, that is worthy of banning their funding.

 

[NobleSavage]

It could happen:

View attachment 3681

http://www.gallup.com/poll/170249/split-abortion-pro-choice-pro-life.aspx

What is the point of this? Does a woman have charge of her body or does Congress or perhaps Gallup? There will always be abortion until birth control is perfected. As for the fetal tissues, it is clear that it is a shame to waste such materials when there is so much research to be done. If PP made money on it, I am sure that money went back out in the form of services.

The point is the law could change (it has been changing) and make it illegal. State legislatures are chipping away at it all the time. Texas used to have 48 clinics and now I think they are down to 8. I know a doctor who worked at a clinic in Kansas. They shut it down with stupid regulations. They will close down abortion facilities if they are not close enough to a hospital or if the broom closet isn't big enough. One conservative President and two new Supreme Court nominees could wipe out Rove v. Wade.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What is the point of this? Does a woman have charge of her body or does Congress or perhaps Gallup? There will always be abortion until birth control is perfected. As for the fetal tissues, it is clear that it is a shame to waste such materials when there is so much research to be done. If PP made money on it, I am sure that money went back out in the form of services.

The point is the law could change (it has been changing) and make it illegal. State legislatures are chipping away at it all the time. Texas used to have 48 clinics and now I think they are down to 8. I know a doctor who worked at a clinic in Kansas. They shut it down with stupid regulations. They will close down abortion facilities if they are not close enough to a hospital or if the broom closet isn't big enough. One conservative President and two new Supreme Court nominees could wipe out Rove v. Wade.

Yup. The conservatives justices don't give a fuck about precedence and are willing to change the law to suit their stupidity and hate of individual civil rights. Scalia thought gay sex should be criminalized in 2003.

As I've noted for several election cycles now, SCOTUS is the absolutely most important reason to vote. Your rights should not be arbitrary. The right-wing disagrees.

 

[NobleSavage]

What is the point of this? Does a woman have charge of her body or does Congress or perhaps Gallup? There will always be abortion until birth control is perfected. As for the fetal tissues, it is clear that it is a shame to waste such materials when there is so much research to be done. If PP made money on it, I am sure that money went back out in the form of services.

The law allows every source of fetal tissue - including PP, including Catholic hospitals - to be compensated for the additional expenses involved in preserving such tissue for the research facility.

Right, as it should. However, in the court of public opinion it's gonna be hard to counter, "OMG selling baby parts" with logic. And if they check out "abortion" on youtube they will find, late term or faked abortions, animations of forceps snipping off arms and legs, and people talking about how much they cost. Unfortunately, the general public doesn't think like TFT.

 

[Togo]

The law allows every source of fetal tissue - including PP, including Catholic hospitals - to be compensated for the additional expenses involved in preserving such tissue for the research facility.

Right, as it should. However, in the court of public opinion it's gonna be hard to counter, "OMG selling baby parts" with logic. And if they check out "abortion" on youtube they will find, late term or faked abortions, animations of forceps snipping off arms and legs, and people talking about how much they cost. Unfortunately, the general public doesn't think like TFT.

How about the general public in the rest of the world? The US is a bit of an outlier...

 

[NobleSavage]

---

 

[NobleSavage]

Right, as it should. However, in the court of public opinion it's gonna be hard to counter, "OMG selling baby parts" with logic. And if they check out "abortion" on youtube they will find, late term or faked abortions, animations of forceps snipping off arms and legs, and people talking about how much they cost. Unfortunately, the general public doesn't think like TFT.

How about the general public in the rest of the world? The US is a bit of an outlier...

I should have been more clear. I'm concerned about the US and the rest of the world doesn't get to vote here.

 

[Achwienichtig]

Another video

So a couple developments.

The newest video is generating a bit more brouhaha. It involves video of an aborted fetus that appears to still be alive at the time, and it interviews a technician whose training involved taking the brain out of a fetus that had a heart beat.

The company that the technician worked for, StemExpress, has now cut all ties with Planned Parenthood. Also, StemExpress currently has a restraining order out on the Center for Medical Progress to keep them from posting a couple of their videos which might incriminate the company. Indications now are that that restraining order will not stand. Courthouse News Service Link.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

We've seen enough out-of-context stuff before, I see no reason to think this is any better.

Besides, if they had any bombshells they would have already used them.

This is just more crap for their followers, not real issues.

 

[Achwienichtig]

We've seen enough out-of-context stuff before, I see no reason to think this is any better.

Besides, if they had any bombshells they would have already used them.

This is just more crap for their followers, not real issues.

They aren't going for the bombshell effect. They are going for the snowball effect, and that is a far smarter strategy for them. They have literally been working for years on this project, and the last thing they want is a bombshell that fades away just as fast as it came on the scene.

As to these not being real issues, I entirely disagree. Firstly, these are midterm abortions, circa 18-20 weeks. This is getting very close to viability, which is where many people draw the moral line. Bear in mind that the earliest born surviving preemies were born at 21 weeks. Secondly, as a legal matter, killing a fetus after it is out of the woman is a felony. Ask Kermit Gosnell about it. As to this matter, the video actually has several Planned Parenthood employees stating that fetuses often come out intact and with a heartbeat. Thirdly, StemExpress seems to think these are real issues.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

We've seen enough out-of-context stuff before, I see no reason to think this is any better.

Besides, if they had any bombshells they would have already used them.

This is just more crap for their followers, not real issues.

They aren't going for the bombshell effect. They are going for the snowball effect, and that is a far smarter strategy for them. They have literally been working for years on this project, and the last thing they want is a bombshell that fades away just as fast as it came on the scene.

As to these not being real issues, I entirely disagree. Firstly, these are midterm abortions, circa 18-20 weeks. This is getting very close to viability, which is where many people draw the moral line. Bear in mind that the earliest born surviving preemies were born at 21 weeks. Secondly, as a legal matter, killing a fetus after it is out of the woman is a felony. Ask Kermit Gosnell about it. As to this matter, the video actually has several Planned Parenthood employees stating that fetuses often come out intact and with a heartbeat. Thirdly, StemExpress seems to think these are real issues.

When you induce labor you can get a "live" delivery. If the lungs aren't ready it doesn't matter, suffocation is inevitable no matter what the doctors do or don't do. The pro-life crowd likes to freak out about this but the doctors know it's hopeless and don't waste effort trying to do the impossible, especially when "success" is a horribly damaged baby. Until the technology improves I would call attempting to save a 21-week fetus to be attempted child abuse.

 

[Achwienichtig]

They aren't going for the bombshell effect. They are going for the snowball effect, and that is a far smarter strategy for them. They have literally been working for years on this project, and the last thing they want is a bombshell that fades away just as fast as it came on the scene.

As to these not being real issues, I entirely disagree. Firstly, these are midterm abortions, circa 18-20 weeks. This is getting very close to viability, which is where many people draw the moral line. Bear in mind that the earliest born surviving preemies were born at 21 weeks. Secondly, as a legal matter, killing a fetus after it is out of the woman is a felony. Ask Kermit Gosnell about it. As to this matter, the video actually has several Planned Parenthood employees stating that fetuses often come out intact and with a heartbeat. Thirdly, StemExpress seems to think these are real issues.

When you induce labor you can get a "live" delivery. If the lungs aren't ready it doesn't matter, suffocation is inevitable no matter what the doctors do or don't do. The pro-life crowd likes to freak out about this but the doctors know it's hopeless and don't waste effort trying to do the impossible, especially when "success" is a horribly damaged baby. Until the technology improves I would call attempting to save a 21-week fetus to be attempted child abuse.

The sole reason these deliveries are live is because that is the only way to get a completely intact fetus that can then be separated into its various parts. Ordinarily, the fetus is killed in utero, which is the law. If the fetus is killed outside the woman's body, it is against the law. It's that simple. CMP is accusing PP of intentionally breaking the law so as to get the best medical specimens.

Attempted child abuse for trying to save a preemie? I'm not so sure. So called "wrongful life" is a tricky philosophical area. What I do think is that stabbing a fetus through the face to kill it is barbaric (which is the allegation in this video). Am I in the minority to maintain the distinction between killing and letting die?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

When you induce labor you can get a "live" delivery. If the lungs aren't ready it doesn't matter, suffocation is inevitable no matter what the doctors do or don't do. The pro-life crowd likes to freak out about this but the doctors know it's hopeless and don't waste effort trying to do the impossible, especially when "success" is a horribly damaged baby. Until the technology improves I would call attempting to save a 21-week fetus to be attempted child abuse.

The sole reason these deliveries are live is because that is the only way to get a completely intact fetus that can then be separated into its various parts. Ordinarily, the fetus is killed in utero, which is the law. If the fetus is killed outside the woman's body, it is against the law. It's that simple. CMP is accusing PP of intentionally breaking the law so as to get the best medical specimens.

There are multiple methods of abortion, different ones might be chosen for different situations.

Attempted child abuse for trying to save a preemie? I'm not so sure. So called "wrongful life" is a tricky philosophical area. What I do think is that stabbing a fetus through the face to kill it is barbaric (which is the allegation in this video). Am I in the minority to maintain the distinction between killing and letting die?

I thought "wrongful life" lawsuits were about botched sterilization operations. (Or even when that wasn't the primary objective. I heard of one where the problem was endometriosis and the intended surgery was a hysterectomy. When the surgeon got in there he found he could deal with the problem without a hysterectomy--and she was never told he didn't perform one.)

What I'm saying is that when you "save" a 21 week preemie you sentence them to a life of hell. (That is, if they have enough mind to actually experience the hell.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Legal troubles for the filmmakers:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/danvergano/cmp-legal-problems