The Pope, The Donald, The Wall.

[Rhea]

Why do assume that allowing Muslim migrants means sacrificing European culture? The two are not mutually exclusive. That said, if your idea of assimilation is giving up their religion or religious customs then I don't know what to say.

If every hotdog stand in NYC was replaced by a Helal falafel stand, that wouldn't be a sacrifice to American culture?

Are you supposing a government required replacement where evil dictators purge America of hot dog stands by force and give subsisdies to falafel stands to take over whether anyone buys from them or not? Or a free market replacement wherein the eaters of the area buy from the falafel stand because that's what they feel like eating and the day of the dog is over on the American Culture palate?

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I mean, just look at the horrific sacrifice to American culture that the takeover of peanut stands and grinder organs effected! All those taco stands that the government thugs brought in... it's been terrible.

 

[Malintent]

If every hotdog stand in NYC was replaced by a Helal falafel stand, that wouldn't be a sacrifice to American culture?

Are you supposing a government required replacement where evil dictators purge America of hot dog stands by force and give subsisdies to falafel stands to take over whether anyone buys from them or not? Or a free market replacement wherein the eaters of the area buy from the falafel stand because that's what they feel like eating and the day of the dog is over on the American Culture palate?

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I mean, just look at the horrific sacrifice to American culture that the takeover of peanut stands and grinder organs effected! All those taco stands that the government thugs brought in... it's been terrible.

culture is defined by the people. having no one that wants a hotdog and everyone wants Halal ME food... then the culture has been usurped by the influx of a different culture.

 

[bilby]

Are you supposing a government required replacement where evil dictators purge America of hot dog stands by force and give subsisdies to falafel stands to take over whether anyone buys from them or not? Or a free market replacement wherein the eaters of the area buy from the falafel stand because that's what they feel like eating and the day of the dog is over on the American Culture palate?

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I mean, just look at the horrific sacrifice to American culture that the takeover of peanut stands and grinder organs effected! All those taco stands that the government thugs brought in... it's been terrible.

culture is defined by the people. having no one that wants a hotdog and everyone wants Halal ME food... then the culture has been usurped by the influx of a different culture.

And this is a problem for whom?

If no one wants hotdogs, why does it matter that hotdogs are not available?

I'm sure a WWI digger who was somehow transported through time from 1915 to 2015 would be horrified by the changes in Australian culture since his day. But that's no reason to reverse or deride those changes; culture changes, and culture today is defined by people today, it's doesn't and shouldn't take any account of the desires of our deceased ancestors.

We are entitled to have opinions about the culture our great grandchildren will inhabit; but I guarantee you that the great grandchildren won't respect or even much care about those opinions; and I guarantee you that their culture will not only be unlike ours today, it will be unlike anyone else's today too; and in many ways will be unlike anything we can even imagine.

Our choices are far less influential on the future than you seem to imagine. Our present is far less defined by choices made in the past than most people think too.

The future is a foreign country, and they will do things differently there whether we like it or not.

 

[Malintent]

culture is defined by the people. having no one that wants a hotdog and everyone wants Halal ME food... then the culture has been usurped by the influx of a different culture.

And this is a problem for whom?

The people who are already here. I'm not talking about 300 million people deciding they don't like hotdogs any more over the course of decades. We are talking about 301 million new people blitzing the culture with their favorite street meat over the course of just a few years.

 

[bilby]

And this is a problem for whom?

The people who are already here. I'm not talking about 300 million people deciding they don't like hotdogs any more over the course of decades. We are talking about 301 million new people blitzing the culture with their favorite street meat over the course of just a few years.

Well, you just let me know if the cuisine available in New York City becomes completely homogeneous and mono-cultural in the next few years, and I promise I shall be suitably outraged. NYC is world-renowned as a monoculture in which foreign foods are rarely seen, and it would be dreadful if ethnic foods were to become commonplace there.

 

[arkirk]

Walls are not a bad things nowadays if one wants to enforce policies on entry and exit. The Vatican itself built walls around its city and is an exclusive territory and does not give citizenship other than those in service of the (Vatican) State or some who are resident in that state.

In case you haven't noticed, the United States of the America is NOT the Vatican. Do you think it should be?

I don't think this is about the Vatican. It is about the Donald who needs to take a hike lording it over refugees and declaring he wants a wall too! The Pope's remarks are correct regarding Trump and his screwball idea of making Mexico pay for his wall. The guy is a psycho with money, proving the time is long gone when this country can give power to rich narcissists with extreme megalomania. Power needs to be removed from these people. They are simply a new round of Fascism.

 

[JonA]

... the time is long gone when this country can give power to rich narcissists with extreme megalomania. Power needs to be removed from these people.

And how do you propose that power be removed?

 

[Harry Bosch]

... the time is long gone when this country can give power to rich narcissists with extreme megalomania. Power needs to be removed from these people.

And how do you propose that power be removed?

I think that he plans to do this by not voting in the general election! I don't know how that will work....

 

[Rhea]

And this is a problem for whom?

The people who are already here. I'm not talking about 300 million people deciding they don't like hotdogs any more over the course of decades. We are talking about 301 million new people blitzing the culture with their favorite street meat over the course of just a few years.

How do they blitz the culture with their favorite street meat if no one is buying it? This is the capitalistic flaw in your nefarious plan.

I admit that I visited NYC last fall and ate from a food truck that did not have hot dogs. I don't care for hot dogs any more. And I can't remember what we bought. Might have been asian, or maybe latin. It could have been middle eastern. I just can't remember. But at any rate, yeah, I came waltzing into your city from rural backwater USA cow country, and ate foreign food! From people with accents! On purpose! Bringing blitz and mayhem to your streets.

I'm so very sorry about that culture thing. Sorry I blitzed it. No, really. I'm really very sorry.

 

[KeepTalking]

The people who are already here. I'm not talking about 300 million people deciding they don't like hotdogs any more over the course of decades. We are talking about 301 million new people blitzing the culture with their favorite street meat over the course of just a few years.

How do they blitz the culture with their favorite street meat if no one is buying it?

Not to mention that falafel is not even a meat, given that it is made from chickpeas.

This is the capitalistic flaw in your nefarious plan.

I admit that I visited NYC last fall and ate from a food truck that did not have hot dogs. I don't care for hot dogs any more. And I can't remember what we bought. Might have been asian, or maybe latin. It could have been middle eastern. I just can't remember. But at any rate, yeah, I came waltzing into your city from rural backwater USA cow country, and ate foreign food! From people with accents! On purpose! Bringing blitz and mayhem to your streets.

I'm so very sorry about that culture thing. Sorry I blitzed it. No, really. I'm really very sorry.

Seriously! I must be some kind of cultural invader as well, since there is no way I am eating a hot dog from a street vendor, but I do love those bulgogi soft tacos from the Seoul Taco food truck. That is like a double cultural invasion whammy, Korean and Mexican street meat all in one. Luckily there is not a foreign accent to be heard from the workers on the truck, or I might have to turn in my WASP card.

 

[ideologyhunter]

I don't think the Pope had a chance to flesh out his argument. Trump, a good example of a Christian? I find in "One Corinthians" from DT's favorite book: Love is very patient and kind, never jealous or envious, never boastful or proud, never haughty or selfish or rude.... How many concentric circles of hell does the Donald have legal title to? More important, do any of his idiotic supporters know anyone in "real life" who goes on relentlessly in that egomaniacal style? It's more than a style, it's a character disorder. I don't see how you could stay in the same room with such a person. If we elect this adolescent braggart, we will be the laughing stock of the planet.

 

[4321lynx]

Are you supposing a government required replacement where evil dictators purge America of hot dog stands by force and give subsisdies to falafel stands to take over whether anyone buys from them or not? Or a free market replacement wherein the eaters of the area buy from the falafel stand because that's what they feel like eating and the day of the dog is over on the American Culture palate?

- - - Updated - - -

I mean, just look at the horrific sacrifice to American culture that the takeover of peanut stands and grinder organs effected! All those taco stands that the government thugs brought in... it's been terrible.

culture is defined by the people. having no one that wants a hotdog and everyone wants Halal ME food... then the culture has been usurped by the influx of a different culture.

Usurped the way the previous culture was usurped by force by the Spanish & Portuguese in South and Central America; the Spanish, French & English in North America; then by immigration of WASPS, and war, in Texas, California & other *Spanish or Mexican possessions* in America; these last being now *threatened* by illegal Spanish/Mestizo immigration from accross the Rio Grande?
And a similar scene in Australia, with different players' names.

A tale of The Biter, bit.

And in this thread it appears that the city dwellers in cities by now accustomed to change and to foreign accents, the majority see nothing wrong with this , being conciously or unconciously certain in the back of their minds that some (?improved ? more interesting) version of the WASP culture will prevail. Others are not so sure, and others again are sure it will result in disaster.

The simple truth is, if there is no barrier to illegal immigration the whole world will want to migrate to centres of Western civilisation and will swamp those centres and turn them to resemble the Third World, such as Bangladesh, or the Middle East, or Africa south of the Sahara, or at best into *organised* places like China, North Vietnam, Iran, or North Korea; or, say, Venezuela, Cuba, and Haiti.

Interesting.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

People like the Pope for what he says
Supporters like Trump not for what he says, but the way he says it.

He sounds like them. Says the things they say. He acts in public the way they want to. He gives them courage to rage.

 

[4321lynx]

I don't think the Pope had a chance to flesh out his argument. Trump, a good example of a Christian? I find in "One Corinthians" from DT's favorite book: Love is very patient and kind, never jealous or envious, never boastful or proud, never haughty or selfish or rude.... How many concentric circles of hell does the Donald have legal title to? More important, do any of his idiotic supporters know anyone in "real life" who goes on relentlessly in that egomaniacal style? It's more than a style, it's a character disorder. I don't see how you could stay in the same room with such a person. If we elect this adolescent braggart, we will be the laughing stock of the planet.

It needs to be said that Trump appears ridiculous, but also has his dangerous moments, yesterday wishing for example for *the good old days* when hecklers at rallies like his could be beaten unconcious, and frankly saying he himself would like to punch that particular one in the face.

His attitude and the messages he presents seem to show not just an empty braggart, but one on the verge of turning into a mob-leading bully. And if that mob turned into a lynch mob, I am sure he would put the blame on the victim. In short, he is a slightly *democratised, Americanised, 21 century'ised* picture of leaders like Hitler, Goebbels, Mao, Lenin or Stalin. All were to a greater or lesser extent populist leaders to start with, exploiting fears, prejudices, and genuine wrongs felt by a mass of their people, just as Trump is now. And just as many Republicans are, in spite of their dislike of Trump.

 

[4321lynx]

People like the Pope for what he says
Supporters like Trump not for what he says, but the way he says it.

He sounds like them. Says the things they say. He acts in public the way they want to. He gives them courage to rage.

The Pope should act, not just talk the talk. His *business* is, I guess even richer than Trump's business, and he is Infallable (?spelling?) in matters of Dogma.
He should:-

1. Spend more on good work or charity or whatever helps the poor in a practical way. Dig into all that obscene wealth, such as has not been squandered by crooked priests and bishops in the Vatican and elswhere.
2. Bless the use of contraception as a voluntary sacrament.
3. Allow priests to marry women as the Church did at its beginnings. And make such marriage obligatory to those priests who go out into the world: the parish priests, the teachers at all levels (primary, secondary, college, university etc) the *missionaries* and other charitable workers.

This for a start.

I'm sure these 3 points will set up a holy and an unholy howl from all sides. So, have at it.