The Pope, The Donald, The Wall.

[dismal]

I'll bet the Pope would make a deal, that they will take 1 immigrant into their sovereign country's 109 acres, for the 23 million the US takes into its 2.3 billion acres. Work for you?

That sounds more like accounting principles than christian principles. Shame on the pope. Shame.

 

[Derec]

I'll bet the Pope would make a deal, that they will take 1 immigrant into their sovereign country's 109 acres, for the 23 million the US takes into its 2.3 billion acres. Work for you?

No deal. But that sort of Islamic invasion is what Merkel (supported by the Pope) is unleashing in Europe and it's going to be disastrous.

What of Christian theology gives a rats ass about national borders?

What in Christian ideology is opposed to national borders? Was Paul arguing in one of his letters that Rome should not control their borders? Was Jesus quoted in Matthew as saying "blessed are those who throw open their national borders and let everybody in"?

 

[funinspace]

What of Christian theology gives a rats ass about national borders?

What in Christian ideology is opposed to national borders? Was Paul arguing in one of his letters that Rome should not control their borders? Was Jesus quoted in Matthew as saying "blessed are those who throw open their national borders and let everybody in"?

You seemed to be suggesting that supporting borders was a Christian thingy...I'm saying it is a non-topic.

Besides, all Pope Francis said was: “A person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not building bridges, is not Christian,”. He didn't say that the US should openly allow 10 of millions into the US. I suspect that if Trump had said positive things about immigrants (not walls), Mexicans (not rape), and helping those displaced by wars (not ban all people of a certain faith) we are party to, the Pope wouldn't have said anything about Trump.

 

[Derec]

You seemed to be suggesting that supporting borders was a Christian thingy...I'm saying it is a non-topic.

No, I was saying supporting borders was not a non-Christian thing to do. I.e. I was saying that, contra Francis, being a Christian does not mean you have to support his open borders policy.

Besides, all Pope Francis said was: “A person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not building bridges, is not Christian,”.

Trump is not against bridges either, as long as they have a border control post on them.

He didn't say that the US should openly allow 10 of millions into the US.

He is consistently against border enforcement both in US and in Europe.

I suspect that if Trump had said positive things about immigrants (not walls), Mexicans (not rape), and helping those displaced by wars (not ban all people of a certain faith) we are party to, the Pope wouldn't have said anything about Trump.

He did say he wants immigration that is legal. He never advocated stopping immigration altogether. Unfortunately being anti-illegal immigration is often, and wrongfully, conflated with being against all immigration.

 

[dismal]

What in Christian ideology is opposed to national borders? Was Paul arguing in one of his letters that Rome should not control their borders? Was Jesus quoted in Matthew as saying "blessed are those who throw open their national borders and let everybody in"?

You seemed to be suggesting that supporting borders was a Christian thingy...I'm saying it is a non-topic.

Well, old testament god helped the Israelites topple the walls of Jericho via some marching, horns, and shouting so there's some evidence he was anti-wall.

They then proceeded to kill everyone inside the (former) walls, which suggests he was also not particularly pro wall-builder.

Not being a pope, I'm not blessed with the ability to divine whether toppling walls with horns and killing everyone inside is "christian", but I think the Israelites are supposed to be the good guys in the story.

 

[Rhea]

You seemed to be suggesting that supporting borders was a Christian thingy...I'm saying it is a non-topic.

Well, old testament god helped the Israelites topple the walls of Jericho via some marching, horns, and shouting so there's some evidence he was anti-wall.

They then proceeded to kill everyone inside the (former) walls, which suggests he was also not particularly pro wall-builder.

Not being a pope, I'm not blessed with the ability to divine whether toppling walls with horns and killing everyone inside is "christian", but I think the Israelites are supposed to be the good guys in the story.

 

[dismal]

On the other hand, this entire book makes god seem pretty pro-wall:

Then I said to them, “You see the distress that we are in, how Jerusalem lies waste, and its gates are burned with fire. Come and let us build the wall of Jerusalem, that we may no longer be a reproach.” 18 And I told them of the hand of my God which had been good upon me, and also of the king’s words that he had spoken to me.

So they said, “Let us rise up and build.” Then they set their hands to this good work.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Nehemiah 2&version=NKJV

 

[funinspace]

I suspect that if Trump had said positive things about immigrants (not walls), Mexicans (not rape), and helping those displaced by wars (not ban all people of a certain faith) we are party to, the Pope wouldn't have said anything about Trump.

He did say he wants immigration that is legal. He never advocated stopping immigration altogether. Unfortunately being anti-illegal immigration is often, and wrongfully, conflated with being against all immigration.

You do realize that Pope Francis was in essence politely calling Trump an asshole?

Anywho, discussing Trump's "policy" ideas, is like discussing the merits of a 12 year old's temper tantrum....

- - - Updated - - -

You seemed to be suggesting that supporting borders was a Christian thingy...I'm saying it is a non-topic.

Well, old testament god helped the Israelites topple the walls of Jericho via some marching, horns, and shouting so there's some evidence he was anti-wall.

They then proceeded to kill everyone inside the (former) walls, which suggests he was also not particularly pro wall-builder.

Not being a pope, I'm not blessed with the ability to divine whether toppling walls with horns and killing everyone inside is "christian", but I think the Israelites are supposed to be the good guys in the story.

LOL..just wait until Jesus' Four Horsemen arrive...

 

[ZiprHead]

Pink Floyd - The Trial (NSFW)

Show

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/FCMHmDnfD6I[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Malintent]

Pope Francis on Wednesday suggested that Donald J. Trump “is not Christian” because of the harshness of his campaign promises to deport more immigrants and force Mexico to pay for a wall along the border.

According to bible, no one is Christian. How many fags has the Pope stoned? He KNOWS he met many... recently too... No one is Christian.. Thank god!

 

[Playball40]

So Mexicans are coming to attack?

As the saying goes, people who live in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones:

http://www.tmz.com/2016/02/18/donald-trump-pope-walls-vatican-city/

It's been pointed out that Vatican City -- Pope Francis' HQ -- has been surrounded by a massive protective wall for centuries. In fact, the wall was first built in 852 A.D. to fend off Muslim attackers.

It was expanded to its current size in the 1640s. The wall, in all, measures 2 miles ... surrounding 109 acres.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2016/02/18/donald-trump-pope-walls-vatican-city/#ixzz40YnFAHwh

 

[Playball40]

satisfy even the hardened xenophobes in the 'Europe submits voluntarily' thread.

I find it amazing how everybody who opposes throwing the doors open to the unrestricted flood of Muslim migrants (only some of whom are refugees) whose sheer numbers (one million in Germany alone in one year alone) will inevitably change Europe for the worse and make it look more like a Middle Eastern society (hence "Eurabia") are dismissed as "xenophobes".
Not wanting to sacrifice European culture so Muslim (mostly Arab) culture can spread is not xenophobia.
This demonization of dissent is not a good thing for a discussion forum like this one or for the wider political discussion.

Why do assume that allowing Muslim migrants means sacrificing European culture? The two are not mutually exclusive. That said, if your idea of assimilation is giving up their religion or religious customs then I don't know what to say.

 

[bilby]

satisfy even the hardened xenophobes in the 'Europe submits voluntarily' thread.

I find it amazing how everybody who opposes throwing the doors open to the unrestricted flood of Muslim migrants (only some of whom are refugees) whose sheer numbers (one million in Germany alone in one year alone) will inevitably change Europe for the worse and make it look more like a Middle Eastern society (hence "Eurabia") are dismissed as "xenophobes".
Not wanting to sacrifice European culture so Muslim (mostly Arab) culture can spread is not xenophobia.
This demonization of dissent is not a good thing for a discussion forum like this one or for the wider political discussion.

I find it amazing how someone can pack so much hyperbole and unfounded assumptions of severe harm into a post that appears to be calling for moderation. And can do so without any indication that they grasp the irony.

You say that the influx of outsiders will "inevitably change Europe for the worse", and talk about "Eurabia", and "sacrificing European culture", in the midst of claiming not to be a xenophobe; do you not read what you write, or are you trying to satirise yourself?

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

I find it amazing how everybody who opposes throwing the doors open to the unrestricted flood of Muslim migrants (only some of whom are refugees) whose sheer numbers (one million in Germany alone in one year alone) will inevitably change Europe for the worse and make it look more like a Middle Eastern society (hence "Eurabia") are dismissed as "xenophobes".
Not wanting to sacrifice European culture so Muslim (mostly Arab) culture can spread is not xenophobia.
This demonization of dissent is not a good thing for a discussion forum like this one or for the wider political discussion.

I find it amazing how someone can pack so much hyperbole and unfounded assumptions of severe harm into a post that appears to be calling for moderation. And can do so without any indication that they grasp the irony.

You say that the influx of outsiders will "inevitably change Europe for the worse", and talk about "Eurabia", and "sacrificing European culture", in the midst of claiming not to be a xenophobe; do you not read what you write, or are you trying to satirise yourself?

This may all change the Middle East. The fact that life in Europe can be much better than in places like Syria may well over time cause change and rising expectations in the ME. The wars of religion in Europe lead to change over time, and lead to secularism. perhaps we might see slow change in the ME as a result of today's religious wars in the ME.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Mr. Pope! Tear down those Vatican City walls!

Seriously, when I heard about this on the news I wondered what the Vatican's immigration policies were. I don't recall any reports of St Peter's being overrrun by groping immigrants.

The Pope should probably stick to his religion gig because as a head of state he's going to have trouble living up to his own supposed principles.

Actually it's overrun by pickpockets.

 

[whichphilosophy]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/19/world/americas/pope-francis-donald-trump-christian.html

Mr. Trump responded immediately at a campaign rally in Kiawah Island, S.C. Discussing the Islamic State, “their primary goal is to get to the Vatican.”

“If and when the Vatican is attacked,” he said, “the pope would only wish and have prayed that Donald Trump would have been elected president.”

Earlier in his remarks, he said, “I like the pope.”

In the days before Francis arrived at the border, Mr. Trump criticized the visit, calling the pope a political person and accusing him of acting at the behest of the Mexican government. “I think that the pope is a very political person,” he said.

Mr. Trump, in an interview with Fox Business Network, said: “I don’t think he understands the danger of the open border that we have with Mexico. I think Mexico got him to do it because they want to keep the border just the way it is. They’re making a fortune, and we’re losing.”

Walls are not a bad things nowadays if one wants to enforce policies on entry and exit. The Vatican itself built walls around its city and is an exclusive territory and does not give citizenship other than those in service of the (Vatican) State or some who are resident in that state.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Now actually protecting one's borders is not "Christian"?
Trump is totally right on this one.

Not totally.

Francis has no good reason to believe that just because someone thinks of building walls and not bridges, that person is not a Christian (though Trump almost certainly is not a Christian, but Francis doesn't provide a good reason to think so), but Trump makes the following two claims:

1."If and when the Vatican is attacked, the pope would only wish and have prayed that Donald Trump would have been elected president."
That is clearly false. Whatever he would wish, it's not that (even if he wished a hard liner had been elected POTUS, it wouldn't be Trump).

2. "I think Mexico got him to do it because they want to keep the border just the way it is."
That's tentative, but still, it seems improbable.

 

[credoconsolans]

Trump apparently, despite being a good Christian, has never been to Vatican City.

There are no gates on those medieval walls, no security, no checkpoints. People come and go at all hours of the day and night.

They're still up simply for historical reasons, not security.

Trump defended himself by saying that the Pope shouldn't be judging another man's religion...this after saying out of the other side of his mouth that Rubio wasn't a good Christian because he was such a liar.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/19/world/americas/pope-francis-donald-trump-christian.html

Walls are not a bad things nowadays if one wants to enforce policies on entry and exit. The Vatican itself built walls around its city and is an exclusive territory and does not give citizenship other than those in service of the (Vatican) State or some who are resident in that state.

In case you haven't noticed, the United States of the America is NOT the Vatican. Do you think it should be?

 

[Malintent]

I find it amazing how everybody who opposes throwing the doors open to the unrestricted flood of Muslim migrants (only some of whom are refugees) whose sheer numbers (one million in Germany alone in one year alone) will inevitably change Europe for the worse and make it look more like a Middle Eastern society (hence "Eurabia") are dismissed as "xenophobes".
Not wanting to sacrifice European culture so Muslim (mostly Arab) culture can spread is not xenophobia.
This demonization of dissent is not a good thing for a discussion forum like this one or for the wider political discussion.

Why do assume that allowing Muslim migrants means sacrificing European culture? The two are not mutually exclusive. That said, if your idea of assimilation is giving up their religion or religious customs then I don't know what to say.

If every hotdog stand in NYC was replaced by a Helal falafel stand, that wouldn't be a sacrifice to American culture?