The Rich Pay All The Taxes, So Of Course They Huge Tax Cuts

[Harry Bosch]

I define losing money as generating more expenses than sales! This often happens with startup technology type of companies. I started two. Neither made a profit until we sold. When a company is losing money, usually the owners just don't pay themselves. If you don't pay wages to workers, they'll leave the company. If you don't pay your supplier, you won't get your raw materials. If you don't pay your utility, you'll lose your power. And etc. Having said that, we were able to create a market and the grow the company to the point where we were bought out at a nice profit. But it wasn't easy!

Heh - if you don't start out knowing you'll need some reserves even if you don't yet know why, or if you count the reserves you knew you'd need as "lost" money, then I guess that's how the calculation goes. We took salaries from the start, hired as possible and resisted the urge to take huge salaries for some five years. So, slower growth. We were 100% internaly financed to that point. Now we have a deep LOC, but it is paid all the way down most of the time. In retrospect though, I like your model better (assuming it goes as planned). I'd have sold a while ago for lifestyle concerns...

Yea, we were a little undercapitalized! We under estimated how much it would take. But we were introducing new products to the medical field. It's difficult to estimate how long it takes to successfully roll out a new medical product. But the owners (3 of us) just reduced our wages to zero, lived off our spouses! We never missed a payroll. We paid our suppliers on time. We busted our butt. Worked 60 hours a week. Then sold just as we started to turn a profit! I can't complain. But it's not easy working long hours with no pay for 3 years.

Sounds like you did better than us. Again, I was well compensated after each sale. But I'm done as a owner. I'm a little older (50) and am just looking for a fair wage. Being an owner is a little overrated.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I define losing money as generating more expenses than sales! This often happens with startup technology type of companies. I started two. Neither made a profit until we sold. When a company is losing money, usually the owners just don't pay themselves. If you don't pay wages to workers, they'll leave the company. If you don't pay your supplier, you won't get your raw materials. If you don't pay your utility, you'll lose your power. And etc. Having said that, we were able to create a market and the grow the company to the point where we were bought out at a nice profit. But it wasn't easy!

Heh - if you don't start out knowing you'll need some reserves even if you don't yet know why, or if you count the reserves you knew you'd need as "lost" money, then I guess that's how the calculation goes. We took salaries from the start, hired as possible and resisted the urge to take huge salaries for some five years. So, slower growth. We were 100% internaly financed to that point. Now we have a deep LOC, but it is paid all the way down most of the time. In retrospect though, I like your model better (assuming it goes as planned). I'd have sold a while ago for lifestyle concerns...

Spending reserves = losing money. Still going to deny that you were losing money?

 

[Elixir]

Heh - if you don't start out knowing you'll need some reserves even if you don't yet know why, or if you count the reserves you knew you'd need as "lost" money, then I guess that's how the calculation goes. We took salaries from the start, hired as possible and resisted the urge to take huge salaries for some five years. So, slower growth. We were 100% internaly financed to that point. Now we have a deep LOC, but it is paid all the way down most of the time. In retrospect though, I like your model better (assuming it goes as planned). I'd have sold a while ago for lifestyle concerns...

Spending reserves = losing money. Still going to deny that you were losing money?

If you insist - it lost the $175k we ended up putting into it. It magically turned into material worth more than that, which once sold produced enough to pay ourselves for the first time and buy still more material. Rinse, lather and repeat for a decade until you're paying yourself well and own an ungodly amount of shit on paper, then ask if you ever lost money.
Yeah, I really miss the ~50k I put in...
(not)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Spending reserves = losing money. Still going to deny that you were losing money?

If you insist - it lost the $175k we ended up putting into it. It magically turned into material worth more than that, which once sold produced enough to pay ourselves for the first time and buy still more material. Rinse, lather and repeat for a decade until you're paying yourself well and own an ungodly amount of shit on paper, then ask if you ever lost money.
Yeah, I really miss the ~50k I put in...
(not)

The issue is that there is an initial period where total value is going down, not up. For many businesses the period is short, for tech businesses the period is often years.

 

[Elixir]

If you insist - it lost the $175k we ended up putting into it. It magically turned into material worth more than that, which once sold produced enough to pay ourselves for the first time and buy still more material. Rinse, lather and repeat for a decade until you're paying yourself well and own an ungodly amount of shit on paper, then ask if you ever lost money.
Yeah, I really miss the ~50k I put in...
(not)

The issue is that there is an initial period where total value is going down, not up. For many businesses the period is short, for tech businesses the period is often years.

I suppose that was so in this latest venture... for a couple of weeks, after expenditures on infrastucture (phones, internet, printers, copiers etc etc.) and registrations... I don't think we could have liquidated those things at a profit at that point. But the vendor agreements we signed right out of the gate had value, so... who knows?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Well, to swing this back on topic, House tax plan is due today... and hopefully it has text and sentences and numbers, not just bullet points.

According to CNN, Pres. Ellipsis wants the House Bill to pass by Thanksgiving, so he can sign it before Christmas.

He wants the massive tax reform bill to be finished after a couple months. He realizes that the hardest part will be the reconciliation right? In order to sign by Xmas, it really needs to pass the House right away. The Senate needs to pass a bill too.

 

[Underseer]

Paraphrasing a bit here.

Presumably because the top 10 percent do 81 percent of the work. Where do they find the time?

"So when you're cutting taxes across the board, it's very hard not to give tax cuts to the wealthy with tax cuts to the middle class," he concluded. "The math, given how much you are collecting, is just hard to do."

1. Lower tax rates in each bracket
2. Don't repeal the AMT
3. Don't get rid of the Estate Tax

Wow! Look at me... I managed to not give a massively disproportionate tax cut, percentage wise, to the wealthy. I'm a god damn genius according to Mnuchin. But wait... I can do even better.

1. Reduce the two or three lowest tax brackets
2. Don't lower the highest bracket
3. Don't repeal the AMT
4. Don't get rid of the Estate Tax

Now I managed to cut taxes in a manner that almost all Americans get the same cut. OMFG!!!

But the elites are the only ones who deserve tax cuts. Everyone else is just a dirty peasant.