The Rich Pay All The Taxes, So Of Course They Huge Tax Cuts

[Jimmy Higgins]

Paraphrasing a bit here.

"The top 20 percent of the people pay 95 percent of the taxes," the Treasury secretary said. "The top 10 percent of the people pay 81 percent of the taxes."

Presumably because the top 10 percent do 81 percent of the work. Where do they find the time?

"So when you're cutting taxes across the board, it's very hard not to give tax cuts to the wealthy with tax cuts to the middle class," he concluded. "The math, given how much you are collecting, is just hard to do."

1. Lower tax rates in each bracket
2. Don't repeal the AMT
3. Don't get rid of the Estate Tax

Wow! Look at me... I managed to not give a massively disproportionate tax cut, percentage wise, to the wealthy. I'm a god damn genius according to Mnuchin. But wait... I can do even better.

1. Reduce the two or three lowest tax brackets
2. Don't lower the highest bracket
3. Don't repeal the AMT
4. Don't get rid of the Estate Tax

Now I managed to cut taxes in a manner that almost all Americans get the same cut. OMFG!!!

 

[funinspace]

And one of the big changes will be big enough to drive an armored truck thru...
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-09-28/the-trump-tax-reform-s-pass-through-boondoggle

Here's an interesting passage from the "Unified Framework for Fixing Our Broken Tax Code" released Wednesday by the White House and Republican congressional leaders:

"The framework limits the maximum tax rate applied to the business income of small and family-owned businesses conducted as sole proprietorships, partnerships and S corporations to 25%. The framework contemplates that the committees will adopt measures to prevent the recharacterization of personal income into business income to prevent wealthy individuals from avoiding the top personal tax rate."

These are what are called pass-through entities. Most are in fact small. But many aren't, and most of the income earned by pass-through entities goes to the big ones.
<snip>
That's right: If all goes according to plan, this tax break for "small and family-owned businesses" would be a break only for those in the 35 percent tax bracket and higher, which currently means, for married couples filing jointly, those with incomes of $416,700 or more. And the bulk of the savings would go to people who make lots more money than that. Now that's fixing our broken tax code and helping out the middle class!

If the Congressional Critters really pass a good chunk of these ideas, the government can kiss a shitload of tax revenue goodbye..

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Yeah, the S Corp thing is brutally dangerous. But they'll make up for it with all that foreign money coming back to the US... and umm... well... let's look at the plan.

Trump Tax Plan

1 - Create tax discount for returning overseas capital back to the US
2 - ...
3 - MAGA.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Why not just eliminate taxes on all income up to $100,000?

If that's such a paltry amount of the tax base, it should be easily affordable.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Why not just eliminate taxes on all income up to $100,000?

If that's such a paltry amount of the tax base, it should be easily affordable.

That would cost a fortune. While the top 10% pay 81%, that 19% isn't peanuts. And honestly, we know that this is never about the "middle class", but about reducing people like Trump's tax liability.

What is funny is that Trump wants to get rid of most of the tax code, but the AMT wouldn't be needed then and he'd owe a fortune. Might be a case of Trump not knowing what in the heck he is going on about.

 

[Elixir]

The richest 1 percent in the United States now own more wealth than the bottom 90 percent.
They obviously need a tax cut.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Yeah, the S Corp thing is brutally dangerous. But they'll make up for it with all that foreign money coming back to the US... and umm... well... let's look at the plan.

Trump Tax Plan

1 - Create tax discount for returning overseas capital back to the US
2 - ...
3 - MAGA.

I think that it would be good to reduce taxes on pass throughs. There are many owners who would like to build their company rather than take distributions out to fund yearly taxes. I would reduce these taxes, but then make it revenue neutral by increasing higher end personal taxes. Companies with more retained earnings are able to withstand recessions better, they are stronger financially (can get better bank rates); invest in equipment more, hire more people, raise wages. But when a guy pulls his money out for personal reasons, tax it!

 

[Valjean]

If we had a middle class like we did in the '50s through '70s we'd have a considerably larger tax base. Neoliberal stagnation has shifted a large portion of the population into lower tax brackets.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

He says it's about cutting taxes but it's really about cutting taxes on the rich.

That being said, I dislike the idea of eliminating all taxes on the lower brackets. I want to see some tax on all income above the poverty line--everyone should have skin in the game.

 

[sharon45]

He says it's about cutting taxes but it's really about cutting taxes on the rich.

That being said, I dislike the idea of eliminating all taxes on the lower brackets. I want to see some tax on all income above the poverty line--everyone should have skin in the game.

I think some of these people just above the poverty line could stand to have a little more skin before they start throwing it into this game.

 

[jonatha]

Why not just eliminate taxes on all income up to $100,000?

If that's such a paltry amount of the tax base, it should be easily affordable.

Those figures also don't include payroll taxes (Social Security and Medicare), which are a nice chunk of change...

 

[jonatha]

I think that it would be good to reduce taxes on pass throughs. There are many owners who would like to build their company rather than take distributions out to fund yearly taxes. I would reduce these taxes, but then make it revenue neutral by increasing higher end personal taxes. Companies with more retained earnings are able to withstand recessions better, they are stronger financially (can get better bank rates); invest in equipment more, hire more people, raise wages. But when a guy pulls his money out for personal reasons, tax it!

Why limit your argument to pass through entities?

Since it essentially makes them not pass through anymore...

 

[Harry Bosch]

I think that it would be good to reduce taxes on pass throughs. There are many owners who would like to build their company rather than take distributions out to fund yearly taxes. I would reduce these taxes, but then make it revenue neutral by increasing higher end personal taxes. Companies with more retained earnings are able to withstand recessions better, they are stronger financially (can get better bank rates); invest in equipment more, hire more people, raise wages. But when a guy pulls his money out for personal reasons, tax it!

Why limit your argument to pass through entities?

Since it essentially makes them not pass through anymore...

Well, I was responding to the post discussing reducing taxes on S corps. But I would reduce all taxes on all corporations. Again, I'd prefer a system where wages and distributions were taxed, but companies encouraged to retain profits in order to grow.

 

[jonatha]

Why limit your argument to pass through entities?

Since it essentially makes them not pass through anymore...

Well, I was responding to the post discussing reducing taxes on S corps. But I would reduce all taxes on all corporations. Again, I'd prefer a system where wages and distributions were taxed, but companies encouraged to retain profits in order to grow.

Companies presently have retained, what, some $2.3 trillion in profits held offshore? I don't see them using it to grow....

If you want to encourage them to *spend* it, suggest something (e.g., increased limits on expensing capital investments).

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Well, I was responding to the post discussing reducing taxes on S corps. But I would reduce all taxes on all corporations. Again, I'd prefer a system where wages and distributions were taxed, but companies encouraged to retain profits in order to grow.

Companies presently have retained, what, some $2.3 trillion in profits held offshore? I don't see them using it to grow....

If you want to encourage them to *spend* it, suggest something (e.g., increased limits on expensing capital investments).

That's the issue I see. Moving it back to the US isn't investing in the US. Heck, the Trump Admin suggested Americans would see $3,000 to $4,000 raises as a direct result of the cash coming back home.

I have seen nothing, but blind faith, to suggest that this money goes anywhere when back stateside. Heck, how much cash is Apple sitting on in the states? How many billions?

 

[iolo]

The rich steal all our money. Who else should pay taxes?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The rich steal all our money. Who else should pay taxes?

I consider tax surcharges on the rich as "Eating Insurance"... ie... you pay your fair share, and we allow you to accumulate ridiculous amounts of wealth... without being eaten by the poor.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Great news.

The Unified Framework for Tax Reform that is supported by President Trump will mean hardworking Americans can keep more of their money. The average American household income could increase between $4,000 and $9,000 a year in wages and salary alone by cutting the Federal corporate income tax rate from 35 percent to 20 percent, according to an analysis by the Council of Economic Advisors (CEA). “Lower taxes on American business means higher wages for American workers, and it means more products made right here in the USA.” – President Donald J. Trump

That's right folks. The average American household income could increase between $4,000 and $9,000 a year!!! It could also not increase at all.

Support Trump's tax plan. It could be a good idea.

 

[Derec]

Those figures also don't include payroll taxes (Social Security and Medicare), which are a nice chunk of change...

But FICA payments are really more akin to insurance premiums (even if the insurance is mandatory and run by government) than real taxes.

 

[Elixir]

Rethuglicans want to keep the focus on income tax while they repeal the AMT and inheritance taxes. And all the while, their wealth (the top 1% now owns more shit than the bottom 90% in the US) is un-taxed.
I pay taxes on my income, my home, rental property, cars whether or not they appreciate ... but none on my meager equity holdings (which constitute a small fraction of my net worth) are taxed as "property".

Taxing ALL property including stocks, bonds and other equities would instantly solve deficit problems and quickly mitigate the imbalance of wealth in this country. Do the math - a mere 0.1% annual tax on those holdings would wipe out our debt in just a few years. But let's not talk about that - let's quibble about Cheato's desire to establish a Trump Dynasty...